oldmanlee Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Hi fellow guard players I have a torney in October and I'm going to take my guard I know there are going to be some very competitive list going and I want my guard to not get rolled over. Now I know storm trooper / taurox prime spam is super strong at the moment but I have two other guard players in my gaming group doing that style of list ( they jumped on the guard band wagon as tau are no longer good). I was thinking about a arty heavy style of list as I've never played that style of list before (tank heavy for me) has anyone tried a list like this in 8th yet could it work am I wasting my time ? Any forgeworld arty worth picking up any tips is what I'm looking for realy Thanks for looking guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Take a look at Brandon Grant's 2017 BAO list. He used conscripts,scions, mortars, and 5 basilisks/earthshaker carriages to win the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Yep, artillery looks really strong this edition for us. I think you'll need conscripts to keep deep striking units and the like away though. You might get that done with Infantry. Other fairly obvious choices would be a Master of Ordnance or Harker for re-rolls. Harker is actually much better (another thread covers that) in that roll. Yarrick is also a good choice but may be wasted hanging around with Artillery. HWS's with Platoon commanders for re-rolls would be useful as well, Mortars are cheap and could fill up gaps to prevent deep striking in the back field, while the conscripts do the same to your front. Not exactly mobile but it's an obscene amount of firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 My style of list utilizes artillery, heavy weapon squads, infantry, and character support. So far the only games I've lost is when I hand cap my list. And my list isn't even what the internet considers top notch. Unfortunately guard right now are an interweb list wet dream. Artillery right now is one of the battle field kings. I like a mix of basilisk, wyvren and manticore. I do feel basilisk (or cheesy forge world stuff) spammed would work as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 My style of list utilizes artillery, heavy weapon squads, infantry, and character support. So far the only games I've lost is when I hand cap my list. And my list isn't even what the internet considers top notch. Unfortunately guard right now are an interweb list wet dream. Artillery right now is one of the battle field kings. I like a mix of basilisk, wyvren and manticore. I do feel basilisk (or cheesy forge world stuff) spammed would work as well. Guard are in a good spot at the moment I do like some of the forgeworld arty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Artillery has always been useful, even more so now. Particularly given there is no ITC ruling say it can only affect the top level of a building! You will need to support that static line with some mobile (and durable?) objective grabbers.At least in ITC unless they have changed it the number of Maelstrom objectives on the table are generally less than the 6 unique ones from the rule book, so you don't need to by hyper flexible in that regard. You could include Artillery + Scions and T.Primes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Artillery has always been useful, even more so now. Particularly given there is no ITC ruling say it can only affect the top level of a building! :wallbash: You will need to support that static line with some mobile (and durable?) objective grabbers. At least in ITC unless they have changed it the number of Maelstrom objectives on the table are generally less than the 6 unique ones from the rule book, so you don't need to by hyper flexible in that regard. You could include Artillery + Scions and T.Primes? I kind of want to stay clear of storm troopers and primes as I feel gw is going to nerf them when the codex drops but you are right about needing objetitive grabbers same with conscripts I feel gw will nerf them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 How can you nerf Conscripts? They're a cheap trash unit. Tirak 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I think a couple of the biggest gripes is that conscripts can receive orders and are practically immune to morale. Most people don't take snipers so have a hard time targeting the support characters that really are the linchpin of the Guard. I could see a nerfed in the firm of not receiving orders or some such nonsense. The play style of the Guard hasn't fundamentally changed its just now that it's good people haven't figured out how to effectively deal with it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Or they could just use the solution right there in your comment; take snipers. It really bugs me when people don't think and adapt, just whine and cry, "nerf." It's like demanding Tanks be nerfed to be weaker, because you don't put AT guns in your list and are annoyed your Bolters aren't killing them. HenricusTyranicus and Tirak 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 It makes no sense for conscripts to not receive orders. It is in their basic training to become a conscript to follow orders or be executed. Personally as a guard player I think the commissars ruling might need changing. maybe to a re-roll instead of autopass? but then again. In the fluff the commissars killing one usually worked. Occasionally the squad may kill their commissar in the fluff (but that would be stupid in game terms). or maybe on conscripts it is a re-roll and other squads you kill one? ah i dunno, it is tricky. Currently the rules for commissars make sense fluff wise IMO. Conscripts themselves are not powerful at all! 5+ to hit, t3, w1, 5+ save, ld4. It is the characters that make them good. killing the commissar and suddenly the 10 you killed leads to at least 7 more dead. In my experience so far in 8th, armies are struggling to take anti-horde, people are still preferring the elite armies of 7th and do not want to change over to have more, cheaper bodies. Then again, it does feel like the model company is trying to sell models.... by making the horde armies viable.... The horror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 In my experience so far in 8th, armies are struggling to take anti-horde, people are still preferring the elite armies of 7th and do not want to change over to have more, cheaper bodies. Then again, it does feel like the model company is trying to sell models.... by making the horde armies viable.... The horror! I agree with this, people are still used to grav spam with Riptide wing. The loss of AP5 means they actually have to think about our chaff now instead of blowing it away because they have some shots from their "taxes" to spare. The commissar ruling isn't OP its essentially the same its been since 3rd. They just made morale a lot more devastating across the board. Dont forget we would usually be the ones to be swept in combat whether there was 3 of us less or 40. The Orks one is worse than ours their leadership is equal their mob size. Tirak 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I don't know about that, all the latest models that have come out have been pretty elite. I just think people are still using the powerful lists from 7th and instead of changing tactics and unit choices are moaning that some armies are too powerful. It's like I said in another thread, Guard have always used balanced lists with no Deathstars etc. Unfortunately for everyone else that works well in 8th so we have no catching up to do. Frankly there are always some armies that are stronger in every edition. What people are really upset about is that it's not Eldar or Tau any more so their horrific collection (I won't say army) of 7 Riptides don't win automatically any more. Well boo hoo! It's about time Orks had some time in the sun for instance! I still maintain that Guard aren't overpowered though. We've only had one codex out for Emperors sake... duz_ and Die4Emprah 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 The Tau Facebook Group I follow exploded into salt upon the new edition release. "They've nerfed Riptides, our formations are gone, this is all a conspiracy, GW hates Tau and is trying to kill us off." I'm actually really enjoying it because Tau don't auto-win when they stand back and shoot now, and they also can't spin Riptides for the win. My tactics of close-assault with a mix of infantry and battlesuits is the new black. Hooray! But yeah, the rest of them are ultimately annoyed that having 9 Riptides isn't even a good list anymore and that the Optimised Stealth Cadre doesn't exist to dismantle every tank on the table turn one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I know this has gone a little off topic. But I'd like to weigh in with my thoughts on conscripts. Oddly enough it does have to do with artillery, because conscripts are the most efficient screen/anti deep strikers. The main power of conscripts is to be bobbed up to 50. We all know that blobbing itself is a force multiplier. Really limit the bomb to 20 and make conscripts 4p a piece. The would still do their job, but not be so auto take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die4Emprah Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Frankly there are always some armies that are stronger in every edition. What people are really upset about is that it's not Eldar or Tau any more so their horrific collection (I won't say army) of 7 Riptides don't win automatically any more. Well boo hoo! It's about time Orks had some time in the sun for instance! I still maintain that Guard aren't overpowered though. We've only had one codex out for Emperors sake... I have a few of those "gundam collectors" in my gaming group. In our last 4k pt throwdown, they lost. Better luck in 9th, xenos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 4 points for conscripts is ridiculous, because it would then drive the cost of everything else in the book up, when each Codex we've seen so far has made stuff cheaper, not more expensive. 0-1 Conscript units is one way to do it, but then everyone brings a unit of 50 in every list. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Maybe make conscripts up to units of 30 instead of 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 4 points for conscripts is ridiculous, because it would then drive the cost of everything else in the book up, when each Codex we've seen so far has made stuff cheaper, not more expensive. 0-1 Conscript units is one way to do it, but then everyone brings a unit of 50 in every list. *shrug* Just because conscripts go up doesn't mean everything else has to. That's applying a sledgehammer to a scalpel issue. By just increasing conscripts it adds value to the ability to be a large squad. People would still take them instead of infantry because they provide a different job. I don't have a problem with 0-1 either. That was around in 3rd and people complained because they want to spam and gw wants to let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hrmm what's this I see? Why are we discussing the cost of recruiting White Shields in the Regimental Artillery briefing room? May I suggest you junior officers take it to a more suitable location. Perhaps start your own thread on the cost to raise a White Shields company? Now has anyone seen where I left my Bolt Pistol? I need to find it before WarriorFish catches on I misplaced it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altasmurf Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 While it has gone off topic (and I'll take the blame) an important aspect of artillery use is how you are gonna protect it. But in an effort to steer it back on topic I'll talk about my experience with artillery. So far my experience is only with the codex, as we don't use forge world. Manticore - this thing is a must have. 2d6 str 10 hits just does so much damage to pretty much any target, especially if it's out of cover. This platform is probably my main anti tank. Basilisk - solid all rounder. Consistent, often runs mop up duty, wiping out remnants or finishing of vehicles. Wyvren - took a hit in the editiin conversion. If it still had ignore cover it would probably fare a bit better. When I play a game with out it I never say to myself "I wish I had a wyvren". Mortar - while not an artillery vehicle, these guys play a similar role. Between being cheap and helping provide anti deep strike, these guys are a top notch addition. A cheap spearhead with co com, and 9 mortar teams is an excellent add on to any force. MoO - a cheap force multiplier toss this guy in between all your arty tanks and buff up you death rain. The 3" buff range is a little problematic but if you're not catachan, or don't use yarrick, he's the only way to buff the arty up. Sgt.Harker - awsome as all get out if you're using catachan. A solid 6" re roll buff that will apply to all of your back field units. Not only that his heavy bolter isn't half bad either. The last thing is a bout the re roll buff auras. You need them. Every extra hit helps mitigate a bad roll at any point in you artillery attack. I have found without some method of getting some re rolls in the artillery just seems ok. Some how just re rolling 1s to hit pushes it into that next level. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I played a 2.5k game last night, wyverns, basilisk, manticore, knight crusader, 20 consricpts, 5xinfantry with flamer and autocannon. I almost tabled a nurgle demon army. Killed great unclean one turn 1. Artillery is king of the battle field again. Edited August 5, 2017 by mertbl oldmanlee and duz_ 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) The intention wasn't to bar all discussion on non Artillery units. Any good commander knows we need to support our artillery that supports our troops. Discussion around the cost of such support units and how many you should be able to in a battle forge army belongs elsewhere. Personally in the games I have played so far. All of which have featured at least a basilisks and maybe a wyvren or two. I have had good success with simply using layered squads of regular 10 man infantry squads. Sure they dont usually survive as long but I find them more flexible than just being a chaff screen. Edited August 6, 2017 by duz_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 I love a good mix of infantry squads and conscripts to support my artillery. Anything to deny deep striking and help prevent charges. I've had so much success with mortar teams, I want to get at least 2 more squads of them. The manticore and basilisk are either super hot, or not. I find that they NEED the rerolls of MoO, Harker, or Yarrick or you're spending CP on them most turns. I'm a huge fan of anything that doesn't need LoS this edition since there's no penalty and cover is so lacking for vehicles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanlee Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 So reading this arti is considered a strong opinion in this edition with screening units pity no one has any info on the forgeworld arti so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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