Tactica Agressors: Load outs and strategy

[Prot]

So I bought a box of these guys, and we've had lengthy discussions about them in the Ultramarine's section but I'm still not sold.

 

Anyone have any experiences yet with Agressors? Aside from Salamanders opting for flamers, I don't know what the rest of us would consider the better load out. Are you putting these guys in a Repulsor or foot slogging? Chaplain? Solo?

 

Any thoughts?

[ROBOcaster]

My plan is to have them leading the wedge formation up the table into the center for board control. Ill have them up front Intercessors on each side a chaplain, apoth, captain and LT in proximity. They will be the anvil then have the Reavers come in with grapnel hooks along with air support are the hammer. 

 

Edit: Running bolt storm Gauntlets and frags

Edited August 8, 2017 by ROBOcaster

[Gothical]

I think that if you are using them defensively or to "take and hold" then the Flamers are the best option, because being able to fire twice with 6D6 hits on Overwatch is insane... though of course the enemy has to start the charge within 8" (and if you can engineer it you can fire 4 times in a round - twice in both shooting and overwatch). Having them hold the centre of your line, or get dumped on an objective by a Repulsor, and they are going to be very difficult to shift, especially with character support - an Apothecary and an Ancient make them complete anvils.

 

Otherwise, the Boltstorm Gauntlets & Frag Launchers seem like the best load-out, because although you have less strength/AP the sheer volume of fire they put down, as well as being able to advance & fire without penalty (and double-tap, when it comes to Overwatch the sheer number of shots should lead to a reasonable amount of hits, perhaps better than the swingier Flamers) means they are great rolling up the board and putting the pressure on. Support them with a Captain/Chaplain and a Lieutenant to really make those high-volume shots sting and give them great combat punch.

 

Both versions are fantastic alongside a Warlord with the Storm of Fire trait, fishing for those 6s for additional AP to really boost their ranged output, even if it is at very short ranges.

[Deadnaughty]

Shooting version is imo always better regardless of how cool the flamers look and sound.

 

If you can flame the enemy you could have shot them for 2 turns instead.

Charge defense is not a factor since no opponent worth planning for is going to charge them from inside 8".

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I see them purely as additional bolters (with a small amount of melee ability) in an army already teeming with bolters (and lacking pretty much any melee ability). Frag/bolters is how I'd equip them, if I were going to run them, but to be honest, I wouldn't. Marines as an army have better options, Tartaros terminators, for example. If you're running pure Primaris, then they add a little bit of melee, but that said, they're still as squishy as regular Primaris. That second wound doubles longevity against basic weapons, but anything D2 or better will just eat them, high power plasma especially.

[Prot]

I agree in principle except they are cheap, and on the charge they should very likely deal significant damage.

 

If standing on an objective or guarding your gun line, there is a fantastic plethora of low end fire power here.

 

I find they aren't that hard to fit into a list. The cost keeps them reasonable and earning their keep should be too hard. I completely agree the last thing my lists need is more low end Bolter Fire, but it can always use some melee damage. Most opponents are trying hard to break into my lines to engage me. I would like to think with a support aura, these guys could be difference makers in the late game.

[Gothical]

Shooting version is imo always better regardless of how cool the flamers look and sound.

 

If you can flame the enemy you could have shot them for 2 turns instead.

Charge defense is not a factor since no opponent worth planning for is going to charge them from inside 8".

 

Chapter Tactics do come into it - an Ultramarines unit can flame (potentially double), charge, then disengage and flame again next turn, which with the sheer number of auto-hitting attacks is quite dangerous.

 

No opponent will want to charge from within 8", which means they have to charge from at least 8.1" away, requiring an 8 or more on the charge roll (as they need to travel 7.1" to get within 1" of your base), which can be risky as it is on the wrong side of average on a 2D6. When that is combined with things like using the unit to hold an objective you can force the opponent out of any sort of claiming range, either helping to secure you an early lead or potentially winning the game if it is an end-game gamble. You can position your own unit to be within 8" of the opponents melee threat and force them to choose whether to back up and risk the longer charge, or to go for the safer charge but eat a lot of overwatch. You can make this choice even harder if you combine Aggressors with a Thunderfire Cannon and use the Tremor Shells stratagem, reducing all movements of the enemy unit.

 

I do agree that the Boltstorm + Frag Launchers seem to be better in the vast majority of situations though, the increased range, more reliable number of shots and being able to fully use both special rules of Aggressors makes them far more useful.

 

However, it is worth noting that the Aggressors will never really be in a vacuum. If you support them with a Redemptor or Repulsor then you don't really need more ranged anti-infantry firepower, whereas deterring assaults becomes much more important (especially if you force opponent to charge Repulsor at same time as Aggressors, forcing the -2 to the rolls, making them require 10+ to avoid Overwatch). There are also times when you will want auto-hitting weaponry, which can be hard to come by especially in such numbers for the cost (and with such melee potential and survivability too) - for pure-Primaris armies they are the only option.

[Extropian]

Shooting version is imo always better regardless of how cool the flamers look and sound.

 

If you can flame the enemy you could have shot them for 2 turns instead.

Charge defense is not a factor since no opponent worth planning for is going to charge them from inside 8".

 

This is too simplistic. You can actually force a very hard choice on enemy assault units precisely by getting them within 8".

 

A nice easy to arrange and topical (because Berzerkers are hot right now!) example: 

- You get your flamer Aggressors out of the Repulsor they were in (because they were of course, right?), move within 8" of that unit of Berzerkers and flame them, killing about 6 (8 if they were Salamanders using Flamecraft). 

- What does the enemy assault unit do now? Do they charge and probably die, or just.....stroll away feeling quite stupid? They dont have the option of being outside of 8" to charge.

 

Now, the enemy can still shoot or charge them with other stuff of course, which is where the positioning and tactics part comes in. But with aggressive movement you can make them a giant PITA. And the above isd against power armour, which is hardly the target of choice for them....against one of those big, scary Ork Boyz mobs they'd kill about 14-15 per volley....so if you move up, flame and them dare them to come at you they will likely lose the whole mob.

 

Overall i think the shooters are better, but there's certainly uses for the flamers and not everyone has the luxury of long range charges, especially f you dont let them.

[Chaplain Killmer]

Well leading an attack with mv 5" might be a bit challenging but I guess they are good with dreads as counterchargers for the opponents who think its smart to engage you in melee.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I like the idea of 4 flamestorm aggressors in a repulsor with a lieutenant and an apothecary. Re-rolling 1's on 8d6 the round you disembark, having just the repulsor charge to tie up the huge mob of orks. Next round it disengages and you hit it with 16d6 before charging in to mop up stragglers.

 

It's great in a vacuum but rarely will that scenario go off without a hitch. Plus, that's like 600+ points. But the day it works... glorious.

[Race Bannon]

And once that is done, the trick is known and the next game the Repulsor is sure to get shot up quick ;)

[Cap'm Heckus]

Exactly. I'm still stumped as to how else to use them. If they march up the field, they are too slow and limited in range, so they get shot up. If you put them in a Repulsor then the repulsor gets shot up as it is also a huge target. With the repulsor's enormous points cost you are unlikely to have more than 1 so there's little target saturation. I'm afraid my aggressors will be wandering around the board trying to get in range all game.

[Prot]

The Repulsor is pretty big... They could march/advance behind it.

 

I think they need a ride. No one is going to charge them at 8"... maybe in week 1 of 8th edition, but everyone sits at 8.1" and re-rolls.

 

The Repulsor is made to take a beating. Start turn 1 out of LoS (every table should give you some cover ideally). It's T8 like a Landraider, which is always targeted heavily every game. It's not as survivable but T8 is okay. If you really need the Repulsor to live, take a vanilla Tech marine. I actually use 2 in many lists.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I'm giving mine to Guilliman.  Grandaddy G, his Honor Guard, and bolter Aggressors that advance farther and reroll everything should be enough to cause some headaches.

[Mileposter]

Exactly. I'm still stumped as to how else to use them. If they march up the field, they are too slow and limited in range, so they get shot up. If you put them in a Repulsor then the repulsor gets shot up as it is also a huge target. With the repulsor's enormous points cost you are unlikely to have more than 1 so there's little target saturation. I'm afraid my aggressors will be wandering around the board trying to get in range all game.

 

Please forgive my saying so, but this sounds like an attempt to get the Aggressors to work in a vacuum - and they don't. They don't stand on their own. They serve a role, and others cover them or perform complementary roles. If your Aggressors are so tempting that they get lit up _every_ time without seeing use, then I'd argue it's the _rest_ of the army not pulling its weight.

 

If you're looking to assault with them, then moving a faster harassing unit ahead of them should keep the pressure off - Vanguards or Reivers, perhaps - so that you have multiple waves of incoming targets. If they're shooting your Vanguards, they're not shooting your Aggressors. Or, alternatively, if they're still that scared of your Aggressors, then the Aggressors taking fire have just guaranteed your Vanguards some fresh meat to slice up. This is only one example, there are others.

 

It's about the synergy more than solo performances. One unit doesn't "earn its points back" because it's a good unit, it does so because the rest of the army gave it the opportunity to do so. And sometimes, units do so by being bullet magnets. Dying doesn't always mean losing!

 

... I know I'm talking in circles by this point, but I hope that the message was coherent enough.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Pentharian

[Prot]

How do you guys read the Boltstorm gauntlet? Would each Agressor get 12 shots ? (Plus the D6 launcher), or would each Agressor get 6 shots ? (plus the D6 launcher)

[Gothical]

How do you guys read the Boltstorm gauntlet? Would each Agressor get 12 shots ? (Plus the D6 launcher), or would each Agressor get 6 shots ? (plus the D6 launcher)

 

6 shots - the entry says "Each model is armed with auto boltstorm gauntlets" and the weapon profile says "Auto boltstorm gauntlets Assault 6 (etc.)"

 

Where a model is equipped with two of a named weapon the entry is quite specific, see Centurion Assault Squad: "Each model is armed with...two flamers".

[Frater Cornelius]

If they had 3W, sure. As it stands, they die too quickly. I am facing stuff like Genestealers and/or Devilgaunts from Trygons, Razorbacks, Hemlocks, Dark Reapers, Plasmas and other solid dakka that will shred them to pieces.

 

Having said that, maybe an aggressive approach with a Chaplain, Apothecary, 1-2 Redemptors, outflanking Reivers and potentially even Guilliman can reach the necessary critical mass to make them useful. They will still be the first casualty. Too easily killed, unfortunately :/

[Prot]

Okay now that I know it's 6 shots plus D6 each, that makes 2D6 autohits a lot more tempting. Ugh I just don't know. I have a box I haven't cracked open.

 

Tomorrow I'll try them in a game with a Repulsor, Apothecary and Lt. still very underwhelmed by this unit but it could be underrated as well and I do like to test everything before writing it off.

[Lord Blackwood]

im building mine right now ,  you  can get  the legs torso head and part of the backpack up without needing to commit to a weapon  if you wanna placed them  on the table part finished to test im  just going to go with the bolt storm nonsense  and get another box somewhere down the line of fire hand dudes

[Kallas]

My current opinion on Aggressors is, "Take Assault Centurions." Edited August 11, 2017 by Kallas

[Sloeberjong]

I used 4 of the boltstorm variant Aggressors yesterday in a game against Orks. It was brutal. I used Raven Guard Tactics but they didn't really come into play. The Orks shot down 1 Agressor in their first turn, but the 3 that were left still brutalized 22 Orks in their own shooting turn. I didn't tailer my list to Orks (I brought the Aggressors as my general AP unit). After 2 turns there was only a green smeer left on the field. The Aggressors died against charging Nobs (they did kill 2 of them on overwatch).

 

I have no doubt that even though it's only str 4 no ap the sheer amount of shots will kill armoured targets as well (seeing as I killed 2 nobs on overwatch).

 

I didn't throw overly well or anything, but I did make use of a captain nearby. That helped a lot. It maybe better to have a LT nearby, not sure. They do need some support though. I had my Redemptors close by and with focus fire you can achieve greatness with them. Alone they won't be all that effective I think.

 

I wasn't interested in the flamestorm dudes. The range is too short for my preferences. I looked at possibly magnetizing them, but with the beltfeeds and such it was too much trouble. The beltfeeds are mostly 2 part and too fragile to move around so I just stuck to the Boltstorm variant. 

 

So for now I'd say they're worth it. Keep some distance though, because they'll die against dedicated assault units. The Nobs with power claws etc. made pretty short work of them. 18" might not be all that much, but it is sufficient to keep a part of the battlefield under control. Or you could use a Repulser. Raven Guard players can place them closer with the Strategem. It all depends on your army and tactics. 

[Stoic Raptor]

If they aren't actually the unit charging into close combat, you can Advance and still fire the flamers (the -1 to hit is irrelevant with a flamer).

I really wish they could be magnetized too but it would be such a pain.

[Frater Cornelius]

I do not doubt their output. Just their survivability against the plethora of 2 damage weaponry around :/

[Lemondish]

If they aren't actually the unit charging into close combat, you can Advance and still fire the flamers (the -1 to hit is irrelevant with a flamer).

I really wish they could be magnetized too but it would be such a pain.

 

You can advance and still fire anything without the -1 to hit because they're Aggressors. 

 

They seem decently mobile because of that at least.