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Welcome to my Blood Angels painting blog! My army is based on the 4th Company, along with reinforcements from other companies. The disposition of my assembled, part painted and fully painted forces are as follows: ++GLORY TO THE FOURTH!++ ++Angels of the Blood++ ++Chapter Command++ ++High Command++ Commander Cervan Dante - High Lord of the Blood Angels Primaris Dante The Sanguinor ++Sanguinary Priesthood++ Brother Corbulo - Sanguinary Highest Priest Brother Olburoc - Sanguinary Higher Priest Sanguinary High Priest ++Reclusium++ Reclusiarch Xenith - JP, Crozius, Powerfist Chaplain Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost Chaplain Diabocca - JP, Crozius and Infernus Pistol Chaplain - JP, Crozius, Grav Pistol Chaplain - TDA, Crozius, Storm Bolter Chaplain Tarentus - TDA, Crozius, Combi Flamer ++Librarius++ Chief Librarian Mephiston, Lord of Death High Epistolary Nostiphem, Master of Twilight Chief Librarian Primaris Mephiston, third of his name. Codicier Librarian - JP, Force Halberd Lexicanum Librarian - TDA, Force Sword, Combi Plasma Lexicanum Librarian - JP, Force Sword, hand flamer Epistolary - Force Stave Epistolary - TDA, Force Stave Lexicanum Varus - Storm Bolter, Force Stave Heresy Codicier - Force Sword ++Sanguinary Guard (10 Marines)++ Sanguinary Ancient Remiel, The Exaltation The Host of Mikhael (5), The Grace of Sanguinius The Host of Gabriel (4), The Strength of Sanguinius ++The Lost Company (12 Marines)++ Death Company Captain w/ TH Death Company Squad (6 with jump packs) Death Company Squad (5 with jump packs) ++1st Company (30 Marines)++ Brother Captain Donato Captain Karlaen, The Shield of Baal Company Ancient Darrago (SB/PF) Company Ancient (TH) 1st Sternguard Squad (5) 2nd Vanguard Squad (7) 3rd Vanguard Squad (5) 4th Space Marine Heroes Sternguard Squad (9) ++Terminator Squads: 31 Brothers++ Redemptor, 1st Assault Terminator Squad (4 w/THSS) Invictor, 2nd Tactical Terminator Squad (5 w/AC) Avengor, 3rd Assault Terminator Squad (5 w/LC) Damnator, 4th Tactical Terminator Squad Alphaeus (5 w/HF) Venator, 5th Assault Terminator Squad Victorno (2xTH, 2xLC) Vindictor, 6th Tactical Terminator Squad ( 2x SB, CML) Destructor, 7th Terminator Squad (5x Cataphractii) Vexator: 8th Terminator Squad Signator, 9th Support Terminator Squad: (Brother Ferruan, 1CML; 1AC) Praetor: 10th Terminator Squad ++3rd Company (12 Marines)++ Captain Erasmus Tycho Psycho Tycho Games Day Captain Machiavi, Lieutenant to Tycho. 6th - Tactical Squad (10) ++4th Company (102 Marines)++ Captain De Bosola, the Lord Adjudicator Company Champion 1st - Tactical Squad Venusian (10 flamer, hand flamer, heavy flamer) 2nd - Tactical Squad Terranostro (10 melta, combi melta, multimelta) 3rd- Tactical Squad Solon (10 plasma, combi plas, plasma cannon) 4th - Tactical Squad Mercurio (10 flamer, heavy bolter) 5th - Tactical Squad Jovor (10, Grav gun, grav cannon) 6th - Tactical Squad Santurini (10 Combi plas, plasma gun, las cannon) 7th - Assault Squad Neptus (10) 8th - Assault Squad Marsellus (10) 9th - Devastator Squad Plutaxo (10) 10th - Devastator Squad Urannon (10) ++5th Company (19 Marines)++ Captain Sendini - Keeper of the Arsenal Primaris Lieutenant Verrocchio Primaris Ancient 1st Intercessor Squad Donato (5) 2nd Intercessor Squad Calpurnius (5) 9th Aggressor Squad Bronzino (3) ++6th Company (1 Marine)++ Captain Raxiatel, Caller of the Fires ++7th Company (2 Marines)++ 1st Squadron (1 Land Speeder Tornado) ++8th Company (24 Marines)++ 1st - Assault Squad (9) 5th Bike Squadron (3) 7th Squadron (2 Attack Bikes) 8th Squadron (2 Land Speeder Typhoons) 10th Squadron (2 Attack Bikes) ++10th Company (28 Marines)++ 1st Squad - (10 BP/CCW) 2nd Squad (5 Shotguns) 3rd Squad - (4 sniper rifles, HB) 4th Squad - 5 Shotguns 7th Squad (3 bikes) Land Speeder Storm ++Hall of Ancients (7 Brothers)++ #2 Imperator Furioso - Dreadnought w/Multimelta #2 Balthasar the Prophet - Furioso Librarian #3 Kaspar the Destroyer - Death Company Dreadnought #4 Ancient Borgio - Dreadnought #5 Bellerophon - Contemptor Dreadnought #6 Leviathan Class Dreadnought #7 Melchior the Harbinger - Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought ++Motor Pool (19)++ #1 Eternal Vigil - Whirlwind #2 Iron Blood - Baal Class Predator (Magnetised) #3 Iron Faith - Baal Class Predator (Flamestorm) #4 Praetorian of Baal - Destructor Class Predator (Auto-Las) #5 Wall of Terra - Vindicator #6 Tyrant's Bane - Land Raider Proteus #7 Invictus - Land Raider Crusader #8 Wrath of Heaven - Hunter/Stalker Support Tank #9 Interfector - Sicaran Venator #10 Aegis Eternal - Land Raider Excelsior #11 Iron Fire - Baal Class Predator' (Heresy-Era Brrrrrt Pattern) #20 Midae Ultio - Kratos Assault Tank #21 Spartan Assault Tank #22 Martyr - Deimos Vindicator #23 Spear of Telesto - Predator Annihilator #24 'Metatron' - Typhon Siege Tank #25 Land Raider Phobos/Redeemer #1 Chaeron - Death Company Rhino #2 Razorback (TLAC) #3 Rhino Primaris #4 Razorback (TLHB) #5 Mars Pattern Rhino Drop Pod ++Air Support++ #1 Thunder's Echo - Stormhawk My painting backlog can be found here: XBA: The Grey Pile of Shame Credit is due to DiegoGisbertLlorens on Deviant Art for the artwork in my signature, and also to teef, who's banner I used in the first post.

A while back I experimented with some new Space Marine paint schemes and found one I liked. I just was happy with the one I had originally chosen. I finally let loose the arrow to land where it may. Now at this point I have a conundrum. Is the red bolter housing too busy; should I go with a more neutral off-black? The squad and chapter markings are going to be red, if that makes a difference.

=] Just like it says, showcase your Completed Primaris Space Marines here [= Sub-Forum Showcases Blood Angels Dark Angels

Having been barely keeping up with the hobby for several years, Indomitus reignited my passion for 40k last year, so I decided to try to actually build a force. This time it will be Primaris space marines, but still my beloved 3rd Company of the Ultramarines. The plan is to build the complete company, including officers and attached specialists and a dreadnought, plus a ten-man Deathwatch kill team, and such a project needs a fresh thread, so here I am. In terms of bulding the company, I will be dividing it into combat squads, to avoid becoming overwhelmed or bored, and alternate those with Deathwatchers and officers, so that it will go Combat Squad > Deathwatch > Combat Squad > Officer > Combat Squad > Deathwatch... and so on. This should offer a decent balance between progress and sameness of models. I started an Intercessor veteran sergeant (the 30th anniversary model) as a one-off before I decided to make a full army, so I decided to finish him before doing the rest of the combat squad. If you visit the Ultramarines subforum, you may have seen him, but here he is again with one of the Necrons the 3rd is fighting: The Necron is really just a color scheme test model, not the start of an army, any time soon at least. The rest of Combat Squad Ardias is in progress, with their bodies only needing cleanup: The bolt rifle arms are coming along too, I just need to highlight the black and tidy up everything before gluing them on. Then it's just the other arms, backpacks and heads and then finishing touches. Of course, an Intercessor squad isn't the end of it. I have plenty of plans for all the squads and in particular the command cadre. I don't feel like typing out all the minute details of my plan that I've spent the last nine months overthinking, so for now I will just finish off with something black for now:

"You are the will of the Emperor. You are the bitter hate of the Lord Commander. You are the fire that the Primogenitors keep close, unleashed upon the enemy. You are the quick blade, the sniper's shot, the hidden hunters. You are the Riven- and worlds will tremble beneath your feet." - Commander Morrigar (later Chapter Master Morrigar), at the battle of Novus Neptu <<<Astropathic duct ready.... Receiving.... ....WARNING...Inquisition Eyes Only...>>> Adeptus Astartes Chapter: The Riven Founding: Ultima Geneseed: [ERROR- Data corrupted] Chapter homeworld: Fleet-based, currently thought to be in Imperium Nihilus Chapter colors: Dark green, bronze trim Chapter emblem: A broken shield Chapter tactics: Urban combat specialty, infiltration/elimination of command elements Summary of Chapter- The Riven are an Ultima Founding chapter, comprised entirely of Primaris Space Marines. Presumed to be descended from the Ultramarines (records are inconclusive/corrupted), the Riven have fought alongside the Ultramarines throughout the Indomitus Crusade. The chapter specializes in urban combat, sending out first wave attacks comprised of infiltrators and saboteurs to destabilize and destroy enemy command posts and defensive emplacements. After the first wave has accomplished its goals, the second wave descends on the target. Infantry-heavy attacks are lead by melee specialist and backed by marine-portable heavy weaponry. The Riven have shown some variance in codex structure, though not enough to be considered fully divergent. Their companies utilize Vanguard specialists in an equal ratio to traditional infantry squads like Intercessors. The Riven's heavy armour is limited (note- possible issues with Mechanicus?), so their heavier weaponry is generally regulated to squads such as Eradicators, Aggressors, and light vehicles such as the Invader ATV. In keeping with their long associations with the Ultramarines, many members of the Riven have received Ultramarine honour badges and commendations. The Riven also contribute to the legendary Victrix Guard of the Ultramarines, sending off the finest members of their veteran honour guard to serve with their brother chapter.

I have been wanting to build an Accipiters army since I first saw them years ago and have finally got down to it. Since they have no official lore on them besides a profile of a marine, I have come up with my own. Quick background(any advice on any of this would be appreciated. Trying to make it sound as close to official style lore as possible) 1.Raven Guard successor. When they were founded or a mystery of when, I have not decided on yet. 2.They were created as a chapter to hunt down traitor astartes. With Corax's hatred of the traitors, plus the fact they are named Accipiters which is the largest bird of prey family with many in it feeding on birds. It made sense for them to go after their own. Since they are loyalists that would mean killing traitor marines. The chapter will of course fight other enemies of the Imperium but see it as almost a waste of time. 3. Fleet based chapter. This is so they can hunt down traitors at all times and work as a full chapter in almost all engagements. 4. The chapter was in protracted void conflict with chaos forces when the Cicatrix Maledictum split the Imperium in two. Unfortunately the entire chapter was close to the tear and 90% of the chapters ships were destroyed or vanished in an instant. (Maybe some of the chapter could exit the warp later on and this gives me modeling opportunities.) 5.After crossing paths with Guillimans Indomitus Crusade they were brought back to full strength with Primaris. 6. Highest ranking first born marine was Forgemaster Bryus who decided to cross the Rubicon Primaris and what was left of the firstborn did as well. Bryus is chapter master. 7.Highly aggressive chapter that prefers close range combat which is achieved through transport. They utilise Raven Guard style combat tactics still but not to such a high degree. Subtly, precision, aggression are the three combat tenets they follow for almost all situations. Use camouflage paint on units when it makes sense too. Ok so thats the basics. I will add things as I go or change things if anyone has good ideas. I'm pondering what to do about apothecaries, techmarines, chaplains, etc color schemes. Maybe pick one dark color to paint them all like black and do shoulder pads accipiter blue? paint on the upper half that is normally blue the color that unit would be and do shoulder pad blue? paint them as normal? I am also kicking around the idea of the companies being very specialized towards one type of combat after the 4th company. (5th company being a stealth based company, 6th be a strictly close combat based company, etc) Since they will almost always be fighting as a full chapter this could work well. 1st to 4th would be well rounded style companies. Or is that redundant because of how space marine companies are already designed? Anyway here is some pics of what I've got done so far. The Accipiter blue shows up darker then it is in person. I changed backgrounds and light but it didn't seem to help. I think its my phone I have not painted the company number in roman numeral on the left knee pad because I can not get it to look good through out. So instead I painted the company color. Maybe the chapter changed that way of doing things after the primaris inclusion. The right knee pad is red with the symbol for 1st. This is 1st squad. The dust through out the models is gonna be toned down in areas when I get a chance. Come up with markings for ranking, original firstborn status, unit type, etc. Will be Raven guard symbols from legion days. Sergeant has the symbol for tactical on his tilting shield and a veteran marking on the powerfist. All characters will have tilting shields with rankings on them. Still working on the Gladiator. Need to lighten the turret and containers blue. Also weathering and base is not done. This was my test model for the chapter. Need to change the base to fit with the rest. More to come soon. Working on building a few characters and a Infiltrator unit that will be dust tan color similar to the bases with blacked out metals. Cheers Primarch83

Greetings I have a question for the fellow hobbyists. I am about to embark into a long term project of painting the monopose Primaris Space Marines kits, which come from the following sets: - Dark Imperium - Shadowspear - Indomitus - Leviathan - Easy To Build, Intercessors, Reivers, Redemptor Dreadnought, Aggressors, Firestrike Servo-Turret, Primaris Invader ATV. So the question is which space marine chapter to paint? I am reliant on the transfer sheets which came with the boxes, I also want this to be a classic codex chapter so company color on shoulder trim, red helmets for sergeants, etc. What I don't want is this to be one of the main chapters so successors or Ultima Founding. Also every Easy To Build or monopose model from the future boxsets is going to be added to the collection. As I have said, this is a long term project and I am now in an analysis paralysis which chapter to paint. Thank you for your input.

++Message Begins++ From: Uraan Hask, Munitorum To: Alvael von Muriax, Gvnr. Aegina Quintus Request for aid acknowledged. Astartes designation Knights Cardinal. V company en route. Q. Iunius Scaevola commanding. Thought for the Day: Take certainty in servitude, that you might not be free to doubt ++Message Ends++ So, like many a hobbyist, I recently acquired Dark Imperium (last Tuesday, to be precise). I split the box with a friend, and took the Primaris half, having long been a fan of truescaling and suchlike embiggening techniques. I decided, having mainly done small projects in the 31st Millennium, to go the whole hog and make a Primaris only successor chapter. The fact that I had a load of IX legion bits lying around decided the progenitor. Thus were born the Knights Cardinal, a fleet based chapter stuck deep in the Plague Wars (for now). They are named according to Roman conventions, but with different meanings, therefore the Praenomen (first one) indicates the Company, in this case 5th, the Nomen (middle one) marks him as belonging to one of the gens, or families, of the Chapter, which function almost like lodges, encouraging inter-company and inter-rank fraternisation, although Chapter rank determines one's position within the gens. The final name, the Cognomen, is the personal name, though this may alter over time, reflecting rank, position, or exploits. The assembly was really easy, the only issues being the conversion work on the Captain, clipping away existing shoulder pads to replace them with BA ones, and basing the Inceptors in a way which didn't look like they would fall off their silly flying stands every time I attempted to transport them. As a recently graduated student, I have had a lot of free time to work on them, so this post will be something of an image dump, I'm afraid. More reasonably sized updates will follow, along with incredibly long silences. So, here are the models, in various states of completion Quintus Flavius Victorius (left) and Quintus Iunius Scaevola (who you have already seen) Quintus Manius Caelestius and his Intercessors (completed) Quintus Albius Venator (left) and Quintus Aemelius Bonosus and his Intercessors Quintus Aurelius Domitianus and his Hellblasters Quintus Albius Falconius and his Inceptors And currently on the painting table, Quintus Julius Signifer (also the Hellblasters) Thanks for reading

Well I’ve managed to finally get three squads of Primaris Marines done for my Crimson Fists. I really like this model and I have to say they are more fun to paint than normal marines. First up I’ve done a squad of Hellblasters: I think the plasma coils on these boys have come out really well. Next I have done two five man squads of Intercessors: Like I say I have really enjoyed painting these guys and I’m pleased with how they have turned out. I’m going to try my hand at some characters next. There’s some more pictures spread over numerous posts and other hobby related bits over on my blog at: http://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

Hi gang! I wanted to share with you some photos from my most recent project. Having recently spent a lot of time working on the original legions and their colours (specifically Iron Hands, White Scars, Night Lords and Iron Warriors), I decided it was time to come up with my own scheme when looking at starting a Primaris force. Alas, this produced a contingent of marines I like to call 'The Ashen Wardens'. I managed to get this 1500 point force painted up within 6 weeks, no mean feat for me as I'm usually a very slow painter. To inaugurate this new chapter of marines, a good friend and I played a narrative campaign tree based on the one found in the new rule book and had a blast creating the back story for this newly forged band of warriors as they came face to face with a branch of Mortarion's forces following their defeat at Konor. Ultimately the Wardens emerged victorious! Who knows what deeds these heroic warriors will undertake in the months and years to come, but for now, please enjoy these photographs I took of the models in all their resplendent glory.

Hi everybody ! The first mini of my Ravenwing is ...Sephiroth, my Investigator, Gardian of Souls. http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07825.jpg http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07826.jpg http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07827.jpg http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07828.jpg I see you... http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07829.jpg The First Strike Squadron : 3 Calibanit's battle brother : http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08013.jpg http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08010.jpg http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08011.jpg http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08012.jpg http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07910.jpg Calibanit Heraldic : http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/17/29/53/dsc07912.jpg

Hi, I'm new here, and I wanted to share my Redemptor Dreadnought Rakmus Stormhand pictures. http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/Rick_Quigley/11_zpsgf1tvcfk.jpg http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/Rick_Quigley/12_zpsu9opnq0z.jpg http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/Rick_Quigley/13_zpsoh9t0zxd.jpg http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/Rick_Quigley/14_zpsjad7d9lf.jpg http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag316/Rick_Quigley/15_zpskxiwzgbc.jpg

Warhawks <Raven Guard> Successor Chapter: Ultima Founding First I want to show my appreciation for a number of you who have helped me in the planning stages of this project. Race Bannon thank you for responding to a number of PMs. SanguinaryGuardsmen and Claws&Effect for advice on building. Ishagu, Blindhamster, and Captain Idaho only to name a few on enlightening discussion on the rules and units of 8th I was unfamiliar with. Thank you. Above is the foundation for the 2000 point army I plan on building. I can't quite do exactly a Primaris (only) Chapter. Two reasons. First is I feel I need access at least to some Infiltrators to be competitive, and there will be tournaments in this army's future have no doubt. Secondly, Xiphon Interceptor. Flyers like the Valkyrie were just making there debut when I left the game during 5th edition, so I have never played with them. I have fallen in love with this model and when the army is ready to jump to a full 2,000 I will be purchasing one (hopefully in a batch with guys from the local GW store ) I suspect mounting bolt guns to the Sniper Scouts is going to be the toughest project but ... I'm also in the process of trying to trade for some Terminator Lightning Claws from a Imperial Fist player. The Blood Hawks are going to have their own version of Kayvaan Shrike using a "spare" Interceptor model, but like Race says "No pics? Didn't happen. To that point, I will be posting my progress in this thread weekly. Do NOT expect any great feats of conversion or painting. I'll go through my quick and dirty painting process later in the thread but after a year of chemo a while back my hands (and feet) arent what they use to be. Still, I think I have a process that will make them table worthy. (Just can't play with unpainted models First up two boxes on Intercessors to base coat with Armory Primer, Dragon Red and Desert Yellow.

My current smashface 2k Warhawks <Raven Guard> list. This is an exercise in why not what is in the list. + HQ + Korvin Kestrel <Kayvaan Shrike> Relatively cheap and flexible, if underpowered in melee Primaris Chaplain: Warlord, Master of Ambush, Swift and Deadly, The Vox Espiritum, Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Exhortation of Rage, Canticle of Hate (Aura) For good or ill a must have at the moment. Usually has lived most the game in my games so far and makes the Assault Intercessors a threat on Turn 1 that has to be dealt with leaving one of the forward deployed Incursor units unscathed. + Troops + 10 man Assault Intercessor Squad: Sgt Plasma pistol, Power fist See Chaplain Above 5 man Incursor Squad 5 man Incursor Squad Generally with 5 Primary Objectives both will be forward deployed with the Eliminators holding my deployment zones Objective, with 6 Primary Objectives one will remain in the backfield guarding the second Objective, while the second unit grabs most defensible Objective in the midfield. Caveat: If opportunity for a shot at killing a character in Turn 1 seems possible I might use Eliminators in the midfield and both Incursors in the backfield. + Elites + 5 man Bladeguard Veteran Squad 5 man Bladeguard Veteran Squad Designed to Infiltrate (2 CP) forward pregame to reinforce or flip the midfield Primary Objectives if needed. Advancing is a gamble but the Chaplain's relic often makes it possible. Even better when I can use them to intercept opponents looking to engage the Incursors. + Fast Attack + 5 man Bolter Inceptor Squad 5 man Bolter Inceptor Squad cheap Arrive Turn 2 as cover fire for the Incursors and Bladeguard. This combination of units, 1 ObSec, 1 Assault, 1 Fire Support is what I refer to as a Strike Teams. They are 505 points each and are responsible for securing the midfield. The Chaplain and Assault Intercessors are there also but they are more a Distraction Carnifex (without it being obviously so I hope) as what I really want from them is to draw units or unit fire away from the Strike Teams. + Heavy Support + 3 man Eliminator Squad See Troops Above 5 man Eradicator Squad 5 man Eradicator Squad I haven't used these yet but they are tagging in for the Aggressors. Same points now with the +5 pts per model in the FAQ. I'll be more than happy to put the Aggressors back in if it doesn't work out. I love Aggressors RoF and the powerfist are nice when close to the Chappy or Kestrel. Either way this is going to usually be another 2 CP investment with Strike from the Shadows. They are suppose to Strike from the Shadows delete the biggest baddest unit possible (preferably one without a 4++) and then die from the counter strike. Which is why I have two. Redundancy without spamming is your friend. I say without spamming not because I think spam in of itself is bad. I just feel it makes you a one trick pony and reduces your flexibility factor. Which is how gatekeepers shut you down rounds one and two of a tournament. So there you have what I have but more importantly why. Honestly I'd never upgrade the Assault Intercessor Sgt like that as its a distraction unit but very little point options for a All-Primaris Only army. Better than couple years ago though. List is designed to excel at grabbing the Primaries. I will always take Deploy Scramblers and Engage on All Fronts unit GW comes up with more "on your turn" Secondaries. Third Secondary is normally Opponent or Mission Specific. Another reason to keep your list flexible.

Knights of the Forge [Heraldry and variation image to come] ​Founding: Ultima Founding Lineage: Iron Hands Warcry: Unknown Number: Unknown Additional Notes: Primaris Chapter, Warders of the Rift - Containment Fleet Epsilon, Fleet Based Chapter. History Freshly forged from the depths of Mars, the first Primaris Marines that would go on to become the Knights of the Forge found themselves as part of Primarch Guilliman's Unnumbered Sons, fighting in the earliest days of the Indomitus Crusade as separate squads mixed with brothers from the other founding Legions. As the Indomitus Crusade ended and the Unnumbered Sons were ordered to disband - Guilliman gathered those of the Iron Hands. These were further broken down to go to the various successors of the Legion, such as the Brazen Claws and the Sons of Medusa and like those from the other Founding Legions, ordered to create new Chapters of Primaris Marines. 200 of these Primaris Marines would go on to become the Knights of the Forge - given a newly commissioned Battle Barge, still in creation in dry dock at the Forgeworld of Dantris III and ordered to join the other new Primaris chapters in the creation of Containment Fleet Epsilon, a new Fleet based group to be set up around the galactic southern rim of the Cicatrix Maledictum when the Battle Barge was complete. During the years at drydock, further Primaris Marines forged within Mars joined the ranks. During the founding years of what would be Containment Fleet Epsilon, the Primaris Marines took to the construction and fitting of their new ship with dedication. During these years, the Marines began creating forges within the ship. Communicating and swearing oathes to Mars and the Mechanicum, members of the Knights of the Forge were taught in the creation and maintenance of wargear. The Battle Barge began to include manufactorums and larger than standard storage bays for raw materials. The Marines helped with the construction, turning their minds to building their new home whilst the war across the Imperium raged. 3 years later, the Battle Barge Invicta Ferrum was ready for release, the Primaris Marines having created forges and workshops within the depths of the ship that would allow them to repair, modify and even create - in a much lesser extent than the Forgeworlds - wargear sanctioned by Belisarius Cawl and the Mechanicus. The Unnumbered Sons gathered to their Chapter Master - one Thoal Lalon - on the Command deck of the Invicta Ferrum. It was here, the Unnumbered Sons under his given command were reforged. Taking their name from the acts they had performed in the construction in the Invicta Ferrum, Thoal renamed the gathered marines and unified them as a new Chapter - the Knights of the Forge - taking the symbol of a haloed hammer as their Chapter sigil. Renamed and given purpose, the Knights of the Forge left Dantris III and joined the other Primaris Chapters ordered to the galactic Southern rim of the Cicatrix Maledictum. Here, Primaris Marines of the Crimson Fists, Dark Angels and Knights of the Chalice were already waiting. Thus, Containment Fleet Epsilon was created - and the Knights of the Forge began their given duty to the Emperor. Recent engagements the Knights of the Forge have partaken in include several battles with the Forces of Chaos, Containment Fleet Epsilon performing several successful defences of Imperial worlds amongst the galactic Southern rim of the Cicatrix Maledictum from several Chaos excursions - most recently from the daemonic hordes of Nurgle and their followers from the various Plague Marine Warbands that have risen up and a Khorne Warband - the Bloodied Brethren, who continue to strike out from the Cicatrix Maledictum. Containment Fleet Epsilon Containment Fleet Epsilon consists of fleet based elements from the Crimson Fists, the Dark Angels and the Knights of the Chalice along with the Knights of the Forge. These fleet based elements include Battle Barges and their supporting vessels, frigates and destroyers from the Imperial Navy along with supply shifts that perform runs to the various Forgeworlds to resupply. The Knights of the Forge often find themselves - during times after particularly brutal fighting - working the forges to aid in the repair and arms of the other members of Containment Fleet Epsilon's gear. As forge workers, the other members of the fleet have often given their thanks to the Knights of the Forge for their work, which the Knights of the Forge accept graciously but refuse to comment on. Chapter Organisation and Demeanour The Knights of the Forge are a Codex compliant Primaris chapter, their members broken up into companies with the usual additions found with Primaris Chapters. The Knights of the Forge have taken to different naming conventions - freshly inducted Marines from Mars are dubbed as 'Wrought' - both freshly gene-wrought from the vats of Mars and freshly inducted into the Knights of the Forge. Battle Brothers who have seen their share of combat and have been given permission to allow customisation of their arms and armour are dubbed 'Forged', taken and hammered on the anvil of war into capable members of the Knights of the Forge. Battle Brothers taken into the Veteran ranks and speciality divisions are known as the 'Tempered' - brothers who have taken to battle and performed great deeds of bravery. These members are often given authority over one of the numerous forges within the Invicta Ferrum and oversee the Wrought and the Forged in the creation and maintenance of gear. The Command elements of the Chapter are dubbed the Forge Masters - masters in both combat and the creation of wargear. Capable of creating arms and armour that even Salamanders would consider exceptional and as capable leaders, these few form the Command Hierarchy for the Knights of the Forge. Amongst their personal forges, the Forge Masters work. Often these are items created for themselves, in special circumstances these may be repairs or replacement items for notable members amongst the containment fleet to foster good relations. The Knights of the Forge take after their Founding Father in that they are capable metalworkers and creators, prone to short tempers and stern, unforgiving personalities. However, unlike their Founding Chapter - the Iron Hands - the Knights of the Forge do not take to replacing their limbs with cybernetics unless necessary to replace limbs lost in combat, the almost fanatical obsession with weakness of the flesh channelled instead into the forges. It is unknown if his is due to their lack of interaction with the Iron Hands and their Primarch or from some unforeseen change created by the Primaris program.

Greetings Brothers and Sisters! I haven't made any posts yet since 8th dropped. This will be a long one. Apologies in advance. Till now I have been trying to wrap my head around our new Primaris marines and how they fit in to the grand scheme of things. After reading a lot of threads here on the topic, doing research on the wikis, and studying the codex and novels... I have to say GW has left things far too ambiguous for my liking. This isn't a topic about whether we should have gotten Primaris, or if Guilliman and Cawl should have or could have produced them. Or even if they are incorruptable, have any biological flaws, or are just Astartes plus one... This is a topic about how they fit into existing Chapter command structures, whether they serve a purpose, and more importantly, if they can even operate effectively (or at all) sans classic Astartes. Currently I'm not seeing them make much sense. Hopefully new fluff in the coming months and years will be able to sort out these issues. Or maybe even the discussion here can bring light to my thoughts. Maybe I just don't get it. 1. Integration into existing Astartes Chapter order of battle. First you have ask yourself, what is better about the Primaris Marines? Their enhancements broadly fall into 3 categories in my opinion: Physique, Weapons/Armor, and Vehicles. We will tackle them one at a time. So the Primaris Astartes have a superior physique. Got those extra organs that make em bigger and badder. This makes them tougher and fight harder in close quarters (+1 W/+1 A). Yet in all of Guilliman's near Emperor wisdom, he chooses to equip them primarily for ranged combat. Not a single Primaris marine wields the ubiquitous Chainsword that is one of the hallmarks of being a space marine. Officers aside, only the Intercessor sarge manages to use a Power Sword. Again Officer's aside, only the the Aggressors use Power Fists. These are not rare weapons. The Astra Militarum issues these to sergeants, veterans, and close combat specialists all the time. They are some of the most common weapons in the galaxy! Even classic Astartes have these weapons in abundancy enough to give out all manner of Chainswords and Power Weapons to their sergeants and close quarters specialists. Its the classic way to leverage a marine's post human body over heretics, xenos, and traitors. By taking the fight to them up close and personal. They even get more exotic weapons like Lightning Claws, Chainfists, Thunder Hammers, and Relic Blades. So naturally you'd want your tougher and more fightier Primaris Marines to get all manner access to these weapons. I mean they can use them better! But no... You get a few swords and some knives on Rievers. Aggressors are the only ones doing this right. If anything Vanguard Veterans should give up their access to these weapons to Primaris. Heck, Cawl should have been developing new Chainswords and Power Weapons for these guys over slightly hotter plasma weaponry... Which segues into Weapons and Armor nicely. Why was so much effort spent on developing new Bolters and plasma weapons, but then purposely withheld from classic Astartes formations? These guys should be more than capable of operating Bolt rifles and Auto Bolt rifles. They should also be able to use at least the two lighter variants of the Hellblaster weapons. You could only make two solid counter arguments here. The first is that the new weapon tech only syncs with their shiny new Mk X power armor. Ok, that is kind of a writing cop out, and poor planning on Cawl's part, but ok. The other is that the new weapon tech is too bulky/unwieldy for classic Astartes. Well this really doesn't make much sense if you have seen a marine with a Heavy weapon. Classic Devastator heavy weaponry is far larger and unwieldier looking than anything that a Primaris marine carries. Not counting Gravis equipped marines of course (i.e. Inceptors and Aggressors). Which brings us to Armor. These segues are working out nicely haha. This one is easy and simple to me, and somewhat the least offensive in my eyes due to necessity. Classic Astartes have a long history of Power Armor use. Its kind of their thing. They have tons of variants and modifications of power armor. They even have heavy specialist suits of it like Terminator armor and Centurion warsuits. Ultimately though, ANY classic Astartes can don ANY variant of Power Armor. Yes they require permission and training, and perhaps fancy rituals. But its physically possible. You have a supply of men, and you have a supply of armor. Now the Primaris bring on new problems. You now have apparently a growing supply of big men, which need big armor. And a dwindling supply of littler big men, which have a plentiful (relatively speaking) supply of little armor that is useless to the big men. Including centuries worth of variants, modifications, specialists suits, and revered relic plate. It just became harder to maintain a hybrid classic/Primaris chapter. Logistically speaking. There isn't even anything wrong with the current lot of classic power armor and its variants. It still does the Emperor's work, and has been for 10k years. But once Chapters have a majority of Primaris marines, all this revered and capable wargear will just rot in an armory, waiting for Huron or someone to pillage it. But as I said, this is the thing that bothers me the least. Since we have big marines now, we need big armor. More on this later. On to the Vehicle rant. I mean this one is tough, as I know we are limited by GW's ability to make models. I mean the classic Astartes line started with roughly the same thing. A Dread and Rhino. It is ok when you are thinking in terms of hybrid chapters. The Repulsor will just transport the Primaris, and when they get mortally injured they get entombed into a Redemptor. But there are a few issues. The Repulsor is the ONLY way to transport Primaris besides a Thunderhawk. Repulsors are needed to perform the duties of the Rhino, Razorback, Land Raider and variants, Drop Pod, and Storm Raven/Storm Eagle. Right off the bat, classic Astartes win in flying colors the mobility and flexibility in deployment game. This isn't even including Bikes, Jump Packs, and Teleportation at their disposal. Remember, 10k years has been spent coming up with brutal, creative, and efficient ways of delivering these phychotic gene-hanced murder machines to humanity's foes. Cawl thought he could just wrap it up nicely into one jack of all trades catch-all Repulsor tank. This should seem silly enough without further explanation. I will just leave one note on this. The Land Raider is more armored, and roughly just as armed, and mostly likely less advanced in terms of difficulty to build. Yet the Imperium's finest still manage to find and need alternative means of transport and support. As for the Redemptor, I will be lenient here. There is nothing in the Codex that says it HAS to have a Primaris marine interred. Though if it does, that would be dumb. Firstly, it says in the Codex that the advanced systems tend to burn out the pilot interred rather quickly as they weren't designed with longevity and health of the pilot in mind. So right there, you'd rather be burning up those classic marines rather than your bigger biologically superior Primaris marines. Secondly, as i've always understood it, you really only need a brain and maybe a spine/brain stem to be interred into a dreadnought. So it should theoretically not care what kind of marine is interred. I mean the technology pre-exists marines and used to be used on regular humans in the Dark Age. This is also kind of dumb in the reverse as well with older pattern chassis. It doesn't say, but I sure hope that Primaris marines can be interred into the classic and specialist Dreadnoughts for the same reason above. We've seen that Custodes can be in Contemptors. So why not Primaris? But this is another case of ambiguity and not fact. Just trying to reason things out. So this takes us to part 2. 2. Ultima Founding Chapter logistics. How are these Primaris only Chapters even operating?? They have a fraction of the tools and options available to a classic Astartes staffed Chapter. They lack the ridiculous level of of adaptability, flexibility, versatility, and redundancy that the classic Codex Astartes built into these marvelous fighting forces over the centuries. Strategies, tactics, and doctrine put in place by ancient Captains and Chapter Masters, Primarchs, and Big E himself over millennia! I mean pretty much everyone in an Ultima Founding Chapter is carrying either a Bolter variant or plasma variant weapon. They don't even have basic Imperial weapons tech of Melta, Missile, and Las at their disposal! You toss in a couple basic Power Swords, a few Flamestorm Gauntlets, and some fancy gadgets like Aux grenade launchers and grapple guns... and you got yourself a nice half-baked Primaris fighting force. They can only deploy by Thunderhawk or Repulsor. I'm not even sure how they ship in their dreads without Ravens or Pods. Inceptors and Rievers are the only units to use tactics that resemble anything close to classic Astartes shock and awe doctrine. Aggressors are like worse Centurions that have even less armor, less weapon options, and less transport options. But hey they shoot AND fight at the same time! That's cool I guess. Terminators do that. Their organization methods and order of battle also doesn't make sense. They are trying to fight like the Legions but with the manpower of a Chapter, and the logistics of neither! The only viable strategy I can see Ultima Chapters pulling off is something akin to a super Rhino rush. Just load up Intercessors, Hellblasters, and Aggressors into your scores of Repulsors that you would need, and blitz the enemy. Using Rievers and Inceptors to harass, hold flanks, and break up enemy strong points in support. And hope that the Redemptors are keeping pace in the back haha. These guys can't perform a classic Planetfall (Stehl Reighn) without Pods, Ravens, Jump packs, and Teleportation. Inceptors and Rievers alone are NOT equipped for this. They really can't perform sieges either. They have no artillery like Thunderfires or Whirlwinds. No breaching equipment like Ironclads, Vindicators, or Centurions. God-Emperor forbid a single Meltagun. They cannot even provide their formations with adequate air cover without Storm Talons, Storm Hawks, or even Hunters and Stalkers. Heck, they don't even have access to your basic guardsman's Missile Launcher with a flak missile. So far their isn't even evidence that they have Techmarines to maintain any of their "high-tech" Cawl gear, much less the classic stuff. They cannot even effectively do Zone Mortalis style void combat and boarding operations without flyers, pods, and teleportation! They lost the "space" in Space Marines. I just don't see how these guys are getting anything done. I'm sure a Primaris marine can fight twice as many foes as a classic marine with that better body. However, he is part of an inferior organization with overall inferior equipment. Worst of all is the pseudo Legion squad arming structure. The fact that every Primaris marine in every unit has to take the exact same load out exacerbates these problems even more! This rigid structure stifles their flexibility to a breaking point. The whole reason Chapters gave up this structure is because they lacked the numbers to use it effectively. They needed flexibility built directly into their smallest units so that they didn't spread themselves thin. Combat squad doctrine helps this too. Legions didn't need to combat squad. They deployed in huge formations and were more like the Guard. Chapters are more special forces and rely on speed, shock tactics, and lots of force enhancers to apply pressure to the enemy's perceived weak points. Legions could overwhelm them with attrition tactics and massive formations. Even 10 Chapters combined don't even equal the manpower and equipment most Legions had available in their hay day. Ultima Chapters just simply cannot sustain these doctrines and strategies. At best they can bully the enemy with big men and cool Bolters and tanks until a classic Chapter arrives with all the toys, options, experience, and solutions. 3. Can Primaris marines serve a purpose? As I lay awake contemplating all these oversights, I ask myself, can I fix it? I say yes. There are ways to fix this. Though I'm not sure GW can now that the damage is done. However, I can try to offer solutions. Solutions that I will head canon into my homebrew Chapter. Its all I can do at this point. My first and immediate thought is that Ultima Founding Chapters do not work. I love the idea, but if one just simply stops and thinks about it for a second, you will see how little sense this makes. Now, If GW expands the model range, and amps up the fluff so that these guys suddenly have the numbers and options to operate using their intended doctrines... then I will rethink this. Until then, I simply cannot believe all the writers of GW ok'd this. So now we have only hybrid Chapters. Now we need to simultaneously do away with the Legion style equipment structure and rethink the unit organization. Hellblasters and Intercessors need consolidated into a single unit with all their weapon choices except maybe the big plasma weapon. We will call them Intercessors since Hellblaster is silly. They then need more flexibility in their weapon options. These are big and bad Primaris Marines and will be the mainstay of our new fighting force. So they are Troops. They have all 3 bolter options in any combo across the squad. 2 marines per 5 may take any Hellblaster plasma weapon. 1 per 5 can get the Aux launcher. They should also be able to sub out their Bolters for Chainswords. Especially for Templars! And lastly, give the sarge the full range of options. Now you have a very flexible Codex style squad that can leverage either its new tech at range or its new physique in combat. But not too powerful at either. And still more expensive with one transport option to keep Tacs and Scouts useful and viable. Next we deal with the Gravis equipped Primaris marines. Inceptors are nearly fine. The simply need one thing. A close combat variant. And its easy! Give them swaps for dual Boltstorm/Flamestorm Gauntlets like Aggressors. Then to compensate this right back give dual Assault Bolters and Plasmas to Aggressors. Aggressors move to Heavy Support and always have the launcher mounted on top. And here is the kicker, they can upgrade the launcher to the Heavy Hellblaster plasma variant. So you will have fast moving Inceptors with actual close combat options in Fast Attack... and heavy slow Aggressors with legit firepower or cheaper close quarters equipment in Heavy Support. If you don't like both units having access to both ranged and melee weapons, then I would suggest just a straight swap. Inceptors getting the Boltstorm/Flamerstorm combo, while Aggressors get the Assault Bolters standard with the plasma upgrade. Repulsor is just fine. Redemptor simply needs the notation that any marine can be interred and I call it good. Rievers are weird. Nothing about them says that only Primaris can perform their role. Their entire niche is based on tactics and equipment. But if we want to keep them Primaris due to their lighter Mk X plate and their option for grav chutes then I suggest up equipping them a bit better. They need a sergeant that has access to combat gear. They are elites and performing a highly elite task. So they should have Vet style equipment options. Heavy pistols can be swapped for Plasma pistols and knives swapped for Power Weapons. Carbines are a fine option. I'd call them good their. They are then your elite super scouts that throw out stealth for pure aggression and fear. I think with those changes the Primaris can actually not only perform a multitude of tasks for which I'm sure they were intended, but also adequately supplement they classic Chapter lineup! I can't believe I've been typing this for 2 hours. I'm gonna stop here just to save my own sanity. Please, be as harsh as you want in your replies.

Tomorrow marks the end of my semester, which means building time! Altough i have some RL matters to attend to, i plan to get stuff done. With the launch of 8th edition upcoming week, i have a renewed surge of excitement, inspiration and eagerness to play 40k. My time is limited, so i normally don't go to the local club to play, as i find that in 7th edition i spend more time looking at the rules then actually killing stuff. But that is going to change. In addition, 30k is taking off in the local area (most likely due to the inbalance of 40k), and i want to join in on the narrative fun they have. So with all that in mind, i'm going to use this thread to set up my goals, keep track of them, and hopefully, add new goals as i complete them XD. Goals: 1) I have never really written fluff for units and or armies, but would like to attempt it with this army. 2) I want semi compatibility with 30k and 40k. (more on that later). 3) I'm going to use Primaris Space Wolves. So, with the goals in mind, i have some challenges. 1) Figuring out a way to represent models as accuratly as i possibly can, within my own set limits. What i mean here are pack markings, legion symbols vs great Company symbols, 40k wargear, etc. I have some freedom here, as i have enough bits to create 40k marines to fill in gaps, and space wolves aren't overly strict in markings. Especially 30k Wolves have almost no guidelines in what is on their armour to denote rank, role, etc. So this is going to be fun experimentating with. 2) Integrating Primaris Marines into my 40k army. This is going to be fun! And currently i have 2 ideas. option a: With the fall of cadia, 2 great company's got completely destroyed. Creating a new Great Company out of the ashes with 100% Primaris Marines is a decent way of filling the gap. Now there are some issues here. if GW decides to go a different direction with the Great Company's and Primaris, or go the same direction but with completely outlined markings and names, my Great Company no longer fits with the canon lore. not sure how sad i would be about that, but has to be considered. On the plus side, i get to create a new chapter icon, name, and Primaris Wolf Lord. I also think that fluff wise Bjorn is an excellent addition to this army, as it makes to me a lot of sense, to put the most experienced and knowledgable person with the inexperienced Primaris. Inexperienced as in: not versed in proper Vlka Fenryka lore and saga's. option b: Integrate the Primaris with an existing great Company. Currently i have not yet chosen a great company for my old marines yet. But considering how similar the legion icon of 30k is with the icon of Ragnar Blackmane, i'm considering that as a potential candidate. No Primaris Wolf Lord, but i get to make a Primaris Wolf Guard Battle Leader, and create my own Wolf Guard with mixed old and primaris marines. I know you can't do it on the tabletop, but that aint stopping me. So, that are my thoughts going into my last day of the semester. I will leave this for now with a test model i painted, and hope to get a completed unit or 2 by the end of the week http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l579/UltraWaarom/Space%20Wolves/TestModel%201_zpsg0hnjxym.jpg

Personally, this is a deal breaker for me. The fact Primaris units were fixed size and had zero equipment options was a major red flag that turned me against the range, but I have discovered the models are essentially clip together miniatures with virtually no variations in pose and no easy way to customise with swapped shoulder pads or similar. Am I alone in thinking this is a deal breaker?

http://i.imgur.com/0RmWzPB.png Devouring Suns II Company 'It is not light that we need, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirldwind, and the earthquake. These warriors can not save our species, but they can render all others to ash and cinder.' http://i.imgur.com/j9YKyhg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/APhcQPO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/vcVyKE6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/XnSam6I.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ysD8BZi.jpg