So now that the Horus Heresy is almost over....

[Loesh]

What do you all think about the Legion representation? or even the factional representation for that matter? Which is not to say who won or lost the most, but in terms of writing quality, here's some of my super condensed thoughts.

Custodes are interesting in what little we see of them, Master of Mankind made both them and the Sisters of Silence fascinating. 

 

The Officio Assassinorium I liked quite a lot in Nemesis despite a few hiccups, I tend to think working at a Eversors Cryotank facility is probably the worst job in the galaxy because of that.

The Death Guard were shown....poorly, I think of the Horus Heresy they probably got one of the worst setups and explanations, we're only getting clarity now that it's all almost over, the best that can be said is they had good representation in Path of Heaven.

 

Night Lords were also badly handled in my opinion, they started out good but as time went on it got worse and worse. Pharos and Angels of Caliban were absolute dreck, and the inclusion of the Legion and their Primarch in those books did them no favors.

Talked about the Third Legion to death, worst book we got was  Reflection Crack'd, and it ain't even that bad.

 

Space Wolves got superb writing, high marks all around in terms of my interest in both the Legion and Russ, the latter of which has become a very complex and developed character. The Thousand Sons are also very well written just by proximity, with their worst stuff being early Heresy when all the Legions were suffering to get solid ground.

 

Sons of Horus were also shown poorly, both in and out of novels in my opinion, they are supposed to be the best Legion with the best Primarch but they come off less as tactical geniuses and more as overrated glory hounds, it's....bad, it's been really bad, and at some point they need someone to get into the guts of this Legion and rework their depictions.

White Scars are rad, the Khan is rad, Path of Heaven was really rad, ain't got much more to add over that.

World Eaters were complex but nuanced. Savage and deadly fighters who....lost a whole lot, showing how Khorne didn't change them for the better without making them pathetic.

Alpha Legion was.....argh, meme team kills me in everything that isn't Legion and Preatorian of Dorn, ironically because Legion did it's depiction a little too well and everything after feels like an imperfect simulacrum. 

Iron Hands, Ferrus Manus is cool but...honestly... I can't pinpoint any personality or kick to the Legion, nothing about them stuck with me.

Imperial Fists are awesome...mainly because this isn't the scouring and all their interesting characters aren't in second founding chapters yet.

Blood Angels are kind of mixed bag as far as the Legion goes, but Sanguinious is so stupidly awesome it's kind of hard to really notice, im not sure if their Primarch eclipsing them that much is good or bad, if only because Sangy was always going to be awesome no matter what you did with him so might as well go whole hog.

Dark Angels suffer in the writing department across the board, their story seems convoluted and many times it veers into just pure schlock for me, but Lion El Johnson is well developed and I like how he's written.

 

Ultramarines and Roboute feel like real big winners here, coming out of it with a whole lot more nuance and character depth, Roboute certainly is one of my most enjoyable characters right now.

Salamanders were 'okay' to badly written for me, though my friends enjoy some of Kymes work with them. I...painfully rolled my eyes when I saw a book named Deathfire, it's a petty and shallow reason to have a negative impression just off that, but first impressions make a world to people and many of the Salamanders books make bad ones.

Word Bearers are...okay? okay to good, no complaints, no outstanding remarks either though.

Raven Guard are...ugh. Some people think I despise that Legion for Sharrowkyn and that's plainly untrue, Sharrowkyn didn't ruin the Horus Heresy for me, Deliverance Lost did! Now excuse me while I go fetch some Pizza Rolls.
 

[A D-B]

I take Forge World's representations (which are largely uniformly excellent) and go from there. In the series itself, there are some depictions I like, some that never gripped me, some that would be popular no matter what because of the events/faction itself and what's actually written would need to be really bad in order to get negative reviews, and some that I'm surprised aren't way more popular given the quality of the writing.

 

Most crucially, there are several depictions I'm glad I never touched, because I'd have played it too safe with them, and they ended up way more interesting as a result of someone else taking risks and knocking the writing out of the park.

 

I think, by and large, the Mechanicum has come out of it all looking brilliant, with some excellent writing. (A lot of it down to Alan / Forge World, but the novel series has helped.)

 

And overall I like Legions to get several authors, so you get a spread of perceptions on the faction in question. That can be hit or miss with readers (and amongst the authors, of course) but it serves to illustrate the point of how to approach the setting as either creator and a reader (or both). There's no One Way. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by A D-B

[Marshal Rohr]

Only the legions given world building novels came out ahead. Everyone else got the short end of the stick.

 

Legions who got cool cultures, languages, traditions, and 'lived in' background material:

-Space Wolves in Prospero Burns

-Night Lords in Prince of Crows/Savage Weapons

-World Eaters in Betrayer

-Ultramarines in Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire

-Word Bearers in First Heretic and Betrayer

-Alpha Legion in Legion

 

The Imperial army also gets a great showing when Dan Abnett is involved. The Custodes have been well developed. The Mechanicum is, unfortunately, a hit or miss. Sometimes great (Master of Mankind) other times very weak (Mechanicum). Hopefully they get more Forge World accurate, world building screen time before the end.

[bluntblade]

I'd add the Scars to that list.

 

The Luna Wolves started off really well, but I've been rather unimpressed with them since then. Can't offer thoughts on the IH yet, will download Shattered Legions along with Black Legion.

 

Hoping Blackshields gives us some nice Xana perspectives.

[Mellow]

The Traitor forces have in my opinion as a general sweeping statement received better representation throughout the whole HH. They have to me always seemed smarter, faster, stronger and quicker to adapt. Of course I realise that the whole point is that the HH was unforeseen however the Loyalists appear to very rarely receive and "good news".

[Loesh]

I take Forge World's representations (which are largely uniformly excellent) and go from there. In the series itself, there are some depictions I like, some that never gripped me, some that would be popular no matter what because of the events/faction itself and what's actually written would need to be really bad in order to get negative reviews, and some that I'm surprised aren't way more popular given the quality of the writing.

 

Most crucially, there are several depictions I'm glad I never touched, because I'd have played it too safe with them, and they ended up way more interesting as a result of someone else taking risks and knocking the writing out of the park.

 

I think, by and large, the Mechanicum has come out of it all looking brilliant, with some excellent writing. (A lot of it down to Alan / Forge World, but the novel series has helped.)

 

And overall I like Legions to get several authors, so you get a spread of perceptions on the faction in question. That can be hit or miss with readers (and amongst the authors, of course) but it serves to illustrate the point of how to approach the setting as either creator and a reader (or both). There's no One Way. 

I do feel like with some of the groups I named, like Raven Guard, a critical problem was just representation and having a wide spread of authors to fallback on. It's somewhat irritating to be candid, I feel like the Horus Heresy is ending just when the universe started to open up to me, I was reaching I point where I could at least appreciate aspects of every faction as things sped up, where my major issue before was always that some Legions were so themetaically weak or underdeveloped(And in one case badly mishandled.) that I couldn't latch onto them.

 

Maybe we'll get something in the scouring , hopefully.

[Roomsky]

Haven't read books Master of Mankind or Crimson King yet, nor have I read any Forge World material.

 

Custodes- No complaints, the worst they get is a worf effect of a protagonist beating one in the practice cages to show how cool they are. They're suspicious, efficient, and come across as 7-foot tall golden dicks to people not in their trust. Exactly how I would imagine them.

 

Officio Assasinorum- Nemesis was a fun romp but is an enormous missed opportunity, as it made the assassinorum basically the same as it is in 40k. This is an issue that pervades a lot of the legions but here it's especially egregious, you can't use "persisting legion culture" to explain away why nothing interesting has changed in 10,000 years. Besides that they were a bit underrepresented, you'd think Malcador would use one of the few advantages they hold over Horus more persistently.

 

Adeptus Mechanicus- Generally good, though perhaps a little absent for my tastes. The rogue mechanicum has their base of operations basically adjacent to Terra but you barely hear anything about them. Not much I can complain about besides.

 

As for the legions, so many authors have tackled so many of them that they're been largely diluted as far as writing quality is concerned. Word Bearers oscillate from warrior-cultists to teams of incompetents too hell-bent on betraying each other to accomplish anything of value. The Alpha Legion is both an impressively down-to-earth force of Reasonable Marines and an omnipresent cancer in every loyalist and traitor operation that for all their incredible infiltration tactics are often thwarted with barely any effort at all. Same goes for most legions, so I won't go too in depth for all of them. As for a standout:

 

Salamanders- No one knows how to write the Salamanders. Nick Kyme is a bad writer who at least had the decency to try and establish a unique and diverse legion culture. Everyone else seems content to use them as the "nice-guy" foils to colder legion like the Iron Hands, leaving an army of blank slates who's only standout feature is that they don't want to kill a whole bunch of civilians for no reason.

 

Beyond that, to me its mostly a matter of "did a good author ever get to write these guys?" Hard to avoid some duds for any faction in a series this prolonged, so I hold on to what I like and ignore what I don't. On that note: too bad Corax only had that one scene in The First Heretic, he seems like a really interesting guy.

[Vesper]

I have to admit I don't think the Sons of Horus got a perticularly good treatment. Maybe that'll change with the Siege, though.

[Morovir]

I think Guy Haley did the Salamanders justice in his two shorts in the Meduson and later Shattered Legions anthologies, and gives them more character than other writers have, and are not just foils to the Iron Hands.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

the only Legions that benefited from the BL novels so far, IMO, are the World Eaters, Word Bearers, Ultramarines and the White Scars.

 

Some legions were actively harmed by their portrayal in the BL novels, like the Raven Guard, Iron Hands and Salamanders. It'l like the Dropsite Massacre wasnt enough punishment.

 

I'm very mixed on the Wolves.

[bluntblade]

I'd say the books where the SoH have done best actually have them fighting the least. Those being Horus Rising and Little Horus.

[Calas Typhon]

I think the World Eaters have benefited because there is not that much about them outside of the one book and two shorts which were all wrote extremely well.  They still get a really bad deal in the books when it comes to in Universe stuff but it does not matter much, because they were fantastic reads and audio sessions.

 

The problem with the Raven Guard is that they were all pretty much covered by the same author. I like some of the books, I like the shorts too, I just think that Legions should not have been tasked to individual authors. Some of the Legions that a lot more people tend to suggest are successful are ones with multiple authors covering them. Mind you, that sometimes does not work out well either. 

 

The Iron Hands are probably one of the more successful Legions for me, simply because they have had so much attributed to them. They got probably the best Anthology with some of the better short stories and they had a fantastic showing in Fulgrim. However many will say that they got a pretty raw or negative deal because they have a lot of crappier work too. Damnation of Pythos as an example.

 

The Sons of Horus just seem to be there sometimes to show how arrogant and superior they are. Abbaddon, one of my favourite characters is just shown as a mouthbreathing berserker, rather than the superior commander who earned that massive reputation everyone in universe says he has. I love the Sons of Horus, but the only two times I have really thought.. damn they are bloody cool was in Grey Talon audioshort when they attack Bion and the White Scars shouting the Cthonian and Argonius on Tallarn and Dark Compliance. Its actually killed my love for the Legion in all honesty. 

 

The Wolves have got a pretty good deal in all honesty. They have some absolutely fantastic work and books. Leman Russ was a great book and so was Prospero Burns. I don't see why it matters if they loose really if they are portrayed as what you would expect. And for me, they really are. Howl of the Hearthworld was great, even with nothing really going on.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[Ranwulf]

Scars gave the Khan's Legion so much character and as an asian guy, did it in a very nuanced way that at no point I thought "Goddammit, another stereotype." In fact, they were so well characterized that I consider them one of the best cases of representations in Warhammer and in many cases of fiction. Also, for a Legion that is forgotten, they got three amazing books (Brotherhood of the Storm, Scars and Path to Heaven), which very few Legions can claim.

 

The Ultramarines are just amazing under Abnett. I swear Guilliman feels so human, so much more interesting and understandable that any of the infamous "Spritual Liege" meme died on his first pages of "Know No Fear".

 

Blood Angels - their story is not yet done, but they are okay for me. I mean, they got their own book which there are Legion you can't even consider it. Sanguinius is well characterized, and Amit is well liked, but I wished Raldoron had a bit more personality or character. Zephon is my favorite Blood Angel though.

 

Iron Hands - forgotten to me unless as "NPCs" or until I got to read about Shardrak Meduson, unfortunaly.

 

Sons of Horus - Is it just me, or Abaddon own storyline doesn't seem to be that much focus anywhere? He seems to be mostly the Warmaster second, and thats it. They get their own shine in the first book and thats awesome.

 

Space Wolves - Thank Abnett for his amazing work with the Wolves, but I gotta say, they do seem to be the Worf in the whole setting. Maybe thats because I play the Space Wolves, but every victory of theirs seem either a bit hollow, not really a victory, or only a victory if you really go through a few hoops (I do consider Prospero as victory, cost and all, its the only Legion planet scoured in the setting, and you NEED all the help you can get to do it, even if its from its own masters).

 

Thousand Sons - I liked them, but I didn't read Crimson King yet...sooo its a bit harder to comment.

 

Emperors Children - They got some really good books. Is Fulgrim perfect? Primarch and novel are not, but they are entertaning and gives us the necessary "feel" of them. Path to Heaven also helps them, with Eidolon being weirdly interesting.

 

Iron Warriors - Can we please get some fix on what Perturabo is supposed to be? I'm okay with a cartoon villain with a degree of nuance, but now I have no idea what he is suppose to be if you pick Angel Exterminatus. And his Legion could definitly get more screen time, but at least we got Dantioch.

 

World Eaters - I don't like Betrayer very much. Its a well written book from many perspectives, but I seriously don't like Angron, specially his long ass speech to Guilliman in the middle of a battle, and I don't like how the bit from Master of Mankind where it seems to forget that the Emperor was proud of Angron for his work on Nuceria (yes, I know there is the whole, techpriest is talking to the Emperor and hearing/seeing only what he sees, but even that its hard to swallow). Khârn battles and himself is interesting, just as his friendship with another Legionnaire...and his curb stomp battle against a certain Chaplain. Still, their Primarch is probably the only character from the whole setting (30K and 40K) that I actively dislike, not even "hate" for his villany, I mean dislike as its presence and mention just make me rolls my eyes.

 

Night Lords - by what I post above it seems I have a beef with ADB, but he is my favorite author, its just Betrayer that I didn't like that much. Prince of Crows and The Long Night are such amazing pieces, detaling the Legions and their Primarch so well, and more importantly - it gives us one of the best character of the series for me, which is of course Sevatar. And these stories were also narrated by Jonathan Keeble, making the whole thing even better.

 

Word Bearers - Also got some great work both by ADB, with the fantastic First Heretic, with Argel Tal been a very good example of a Last Angel (or Fallen Angel, but that is another legion entirely). Lorgar is very interesting, and Abnett described him very well ("He is so changeable..."). And they are great villains for the setting, with some great nuance for a bunch of fanatics. 

 

Alpha Legion - memes aside, I find them more interesting when they use operatives which I'm not sure that gives them more or less character (because they keep themslves misterious while the operatives give us more characterization). Still, Legion is cool.

 

Imperial Fists - whenever they show up, their character works. 

 

Dark Angels - I liked their first books and Angels of Caliban gave some good character...but Curze getting wrecked AGAIN its pretty annoying. It just...felt like I seen that before. Specially with the backbreak. 

 

Death Guard - I liked them whenever they show up against the White Scars, but thats because Wraight writes them well. And I don't go around calling Swallow bad, its just Garro is, well, the Knight Errants story so I can't say I like his Death Guard because he is not really telling their story.

 

Raven Guard - say what you will, but I liked Gav stories. The Raven Guard never really were in my head a chapter that needed so much "I AM VIKINGWOLF, I'M GLADIATORLOBOTOMY", but just professionals with a dedications to some specific ideals. Corax felt a bit arrogant, vengeful and suicidal which I think it was the point of a Primarch that lost so much and yet could still fight and wanted to hold on unto himself.

 

Salamanders - Vulkan Lives I guess. 

 

Custodes and Sisters - ADB characterized them well, though I have no idea now of their power levels, they are troucing dozens of warriors on Master of Manking and then they are eaten by the Gal Vorbak on First Heretic. Still, their utter dedication is really well done in a way that doesnt sound like they are literal robots.

 

Imperial Knights - Master of Mankind and the Devine Adoratrice gave them a good show of how these mecha nobles work, and they gave a very necessary human touch to a series about transhumans, while keeping the power levels up.

 

Ran 

[Kelborn]

Haven't read all books, short stories, etc.

I picked those, who were the most promising & covered my interests.

 

Until now, the HH had its ups and downs. For me, it did well in giving me some decent content for those Legions I was / am interested in:

 

- Space Wolves (first Legion / chapter I fell in love with; though some would say that they might have been not treated fairly or lacking a great success; I for one enjoyed their dark / tough hours of desperation. It was a good distraction to the 40K Wolves own all stuff, I've read thus far)

- Thousand Sons (Prosperro is what brought me into the Heresy; I still love A Thousand Sons and FWs take on them)

- Alpha Legion (Legion was exactly what I had in mind for them)

- Night Lords (the shorts were great, otherwise, they were used to let others shine)

 

Furthermore, the HH series did turn my attention to a Legion I was NEVER interested in and that's all due to one person: Chris Wraight

 

Since the moment I've finished Scars, I fell in love with the sons of the Khan. Magnificent story arc. Brilliant characterization. And damn, he did so well in fleshing them out and giving them a distinctive culture and character. My very first & finished Liber Astartes article was a White Scars successor just because of this. And I'm really glad that BL did the series, mostly because of this (and others of course!!!) masterpiece.

 

Though I haven't read them by now, it seems that I've heard enough to be disappointed regarding the treatment of other Legions I've favored thus far: Raven Guard & Salamanders.

 

Forge Worlds take on them are really great like most of them. But in terms of novels....I'm not sure if I'll ever give those respective books a fair chance to be purchased.

 

On the other side, we got such awesome episodes like Betrayer, Firs Heretic, Pharos and so on.

 

Got mixed feelings about the series. It got so many good and sadly many not so good parts. Still, it will be weird, when the last entry will be released. Such a long series. Really curious of how BL will proceed from that point (ending of the HH) onwards.

[bluntblade]

The only thing that for me has hinted what a beast Abaddon really is comes in Conquest by FW. I really hope that Wolf Cull gives us that fearsome, brilliant commander in a BL story.

[DarkChaplain]

I honestly don't agree with the Raven Guard having gotten the short end of the stick. Deliverance Lost and the stories in Corax give a good showing of their particular approach to warfare, their Primarch's position within the Legion as it differs from that of his brothers and their own, and their stories reflect their losses, despair and the need for fighting the way they do. The books cemented the identity of Corax and his sons pretty damn well.

 

I wasn't thrilled with the Imperial Fists in Praetorian of Dorn, though. The Crimson Fist did a better job rendering the Legion's character I think. PoD was too limited in its view and very much Alpha Legion focused, so it never really went to the degree of development that I was hoping for and expected.

 

Death Guard are the ones that need a definitive novel the most, I think. Their showings in The Path of Heaven was pretty good, but there's still a massive disconnect between what they need to be and what they were in Flight of the Eisenstein. Hopefully Chris is writing the fall of the DG novel, rather than Swallow.

 

Other than that, the Sons of Horus got kinda shafted with the retrofitting of ForgeWorld's Cthonia culture in Vengeful Spirit. Felt like it was too little, too late, and quite redundant.

[Olis]

The thing is... there was always going to be factions/legions that were going to feel like they were under represented. Sure, there's give-or-take fifty main novels, a whole load of short stories and several audio books... but with eighteen legions, the mechanicum, the regular mortals of the Imperial Army, the Custodes and likely others to consider, all those stories begin to stretch thin in some places. 

 

More would be nice for practically everyone but I would bet my last pound sterling that someone is going to feel like their guys weren't written about enough.

[Robster The Lobster]

Unfortunately I still have some catching up to do with the HH Series, but I can give you guys and gals a cent or two.... Well, I'm not rich, so you only get my opinion.

 

My opinion will be based on the character building of the legion and the characters within, not about winning or losing.

 

So let´s begin.

 

The Good List

 

Word Bearers- The perfect legion when it comes to characterization, quirks and flaws. But still being likable. And they do have a primarch who isn't´t stagnate, Lorgar actually evolve through the series. Which is one the the reasons I hope he survive´s the horus heresy, the one primarch who got what he wanted and than got enslaved by it is such a cool story.

 

World Eaters- Together with the former legion they are the prime example of a legion well done, it got a couple of excellent character, a primarch who is kickass. And its own quirks and flaws, and lets not forget Lotara.

 

Space Wolves- I have not read everything about the wolves, but from what I´v read they get a good showing, a complex primarch, and show of a more complex side to the legion as well

 

Thousand Sons- The legion we thought we knew from a few paragraphs in codex´s over the years, but the we got an entire world in Tizca, were we first hand got to see how a legion influenced and got influenced by it´s home world.

 

Alpha Legion- Just read Legion and Praetorian of Dorn, that´s all I have to say about that.

 

Ultramarines- Abnett really saved the Ultramarines for me. By the time I picked up Know no Fear I was really tired of every book, codex telling me how perfect they were. We got the best Chapter Master, the most powerful Librarian, and the best sergeant, and on and on it went. But Abnett made ol´papa smurf likeable and flawed, and he did the same with the Ultramarine´s themselves

 

Scars- Again we get a legion who is a character in it´s own right.And a primarch who is complex.

 

Bad List

 

Night Lord- Besides A D-B´s work they feel like a cartonish villian. Something to throw in and be defeated, We learn nothing really new, We are told that Curze descend into madness and that the legion start to descend into criminals instead of seeing it.

 

Dark Angels- IAgain I have not read everything out there. my experience with them are from Descent of Angels, and let´s just say that it was a book that is wish to forget.

 

Sons of Horus- They started good, but I think they suffered from the period when BL wanted make us see that the primarchs and certain legion´s wasn´t perfect. I love a great many authors in the BL stable, but one of the great flaws is that they are usually very blunt in their writing´s., instead of using a chisel they smack you over the head with a shovel and you are left to wonder what happened. I think that is what happened to the Sons of Horus, they wanted to take down the legion from it´s throne, but instead turned them into glory hounds. For me personally the best characterization of the legion is when Loken spar against Lucius the first them, were Loken explain that the how´s and why´s is not important, only to win.

 

Legions that need book list

 

Death Guards- I´m a Death Guard player since twelve years back, so I might be a little biased. But they really need a book to show of the legion and it´s primarch.

 

Iron Hands- The only legion to lose it´s primarch. I would have loved to have a book were they bury their father and show how it affected them

 

Imperial Fists- We might get more fists now when we are getting closer to Terra. But I would really like to see more characterization of their legion and characters... Sigismund I´m looking at you. And we really need to care about Dorn, or at least be made to see what a tragedy his death is to the Imperium

 

I´m working through the books one by one right now, so perhaps I can write about the legions I left out at a later date.

 

 

 

 

[b1soul]

Wraight did a magnificent job with the WS

 

I also loved Abnett's Prospero Burns (despite the Executioner hype...which I think is a very interesting idea if handled intelligently), Legion, and Know No Fear.

 

Of course ADB's First Heretic and Betrayer did their legions incredible justice as well.

 

I do think Wraight deserves special mention because of how he builds up the Vth from essentially nothing into a very interesting legion...and how his portrayal never strays into oriental caricature.

 

Back in 2010/2011, I would have never guessed that the WS would have 2 of the most well-written novels (3 if u count BotS) in the HH series.

[HeritorA]

First Heretic and Betrayer - because they are simply amazing.

Scars and Path of Heaven - cause Wraight Scars are awesome.

Alpha Legion - cause Abnett with Legion and French with PoD

Ultramarines cause apocalyptic events of Know No Fear.

[Felix Antipodes]

While there will always be those who feel their fave was under and/or misrepresented I feel that most were given their time in the spotlight. There are some I think were underrepresented (SoH started central in the series, as they should, but then faded into the background as the focus went elsewhere) and I would have liked to see a book, possibly an anthology, focussed on the Black Shields, but these are minor quibbles. Maybe I'm easily pleased but I've found few real stinkers (IMHO) and even those provided valuable backgrounding even if I wasn't a fan of the writers style.

One thing I hope they do in the remaining novels is begin foreshadowing the characters who will take centre stage in the Scouring, so as to minimalise the amount of "Who the heck is that?" moments with regard to 2nd Founding leaders, etc.

[DarkChaplain]

Well, we do have a good list of 2nd Founding characters already. Lucretius Corvo (Novamarines), Alexis Polux (Crimson Fists), Sigismund (Black Templars), Demetrius Katafalque (Excoriators), Nassir Amit (Flesh Tearers), Autek Mor (Red Talons), and we have candidates for the Raptors and Black Guard as well. We could even speculate on a few White Scars and Blood Angels characters, granted they survive the Siege. There's also Oberdeii who gets his Scythes of the Emperor for the 3rd Founding.

 

I do agree though that if there ever was a time to trickle in new characters that can be used for Scouring era stories later, it'd be now up until the Siege. I'm just happy Corvo got time to show off already, and Gav did a good job introducing the Raptors and Black Guard over the course of his stories.

[Withershadow]

Only the legions given world building novels came out ahead. Everyone else got the short end of the stick.

 

Legions who got cool cultures, languages, traditions, and 'lived in' background material:

-Space Wolves in Prospero Burns

-Night Lords in Prince of Crows/Savage Weapons

-World Eaters in Betrayer

-Ultramarines in Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire

-Word Bearers in First Heretic and Betrayer

-Alpha Legion in Legion

 

The Imperial army also gets a great showing when Dan Abnett is involved.

I felt the Space Wolves depiction was more tedious than interesting, and the Alpha Legion (my chosen Legion no less), was hamfisted and abrupt.  While I loved Abnett's Eisenhorn series (less so with Ravenor, and even less so with Bequin), I have not enjoyed most of his work in the Horus Heresy series.  He definitely writes humans better than he writes Space Marines, but even then his books seem to take place in an alternate universe, an Abnetverse if you will.  I find his works are far more enjoyable when he's given free reign and is not constrained by the 40K mythos, against which he chafes incessantly.  His stuff for Marvel and the Triumff novel were great.

[Scribe]

If the Legion was fleshed out by ADB or Write, then they made out like bandits.

 

Scars, World Eaters, Word Bearers, for example.

 

I feel the greatness of A Thousand Sons is being forgotten too.

 

That was a great book for its Legion.

 

Some Legions unfairly became caricatures of themselves, and it's unfortunate for the fans of those Legions.

 

Night Lords...whoa.

 

I hope to Khorne that we get the a final trilogy from ADB, Write, and French.

 

That's all I ask.

[Indefragable]

One phone so I can't quite all the people above I would like to, but a couple thoughts.

 

From the top, my humble opinion:

Hidden Content

 

I - Dark Angels: ...so who are these guys? They apparently like their planet Caiban more than their Primarch, or at least some of them do...and the Dreadwing likes to chant before using nasty weapons on people. Other than that who the :cuss are the First Legion? In contrast, The Lion has some cool moments, but I am dying to get under the surface more

 

II - (Redacted): opinion (redacted)

 

III - Surprisngly light amount of screentime. I think Fulgrim is one of the "must reads" is the entire series simply because so much ground is covered timewose, and it is all shown through the lens of the featured Legion. I'm surprised that approach was not taken more. Good portrayal in Path of Heaven as well. Solid mid-tier showing so far

 

IV - Iron Warriors: who? The guys who built that thing in that place in that short story?

 

V - White Scars: the single greatest success of the entire HH series. Went from "oh yea, the white paint scheme guys" to living, breathing, downright interesting and cool Legion. See my footnote below on just how successful their portrayal has been. Scars and Path of Heaven are two of the best books in the whole series as well

 

VI - Soace Wolves: moderate portrayal. Suffer a bit from the worf effect, but in a somewhat complimentary way, like "oh wow, we killed a space wolf!!!" I can understand how SW fans feel a bit left out in the cold, but to me they get mentioned in pretty much every single novel, and usually in a measuring stick sort of way. For that reason some I would say they come out alright (not great, I will agree) overall. Case in point: even in Betrayer where Angron reminisced about kicking their :cuss -es, it is made out that his memory is clouded and the SW actually "won"

 

VII - Imperial Fists: listening to Praetorian of Dorn now. When they get written about beyond that I will update my thoughts. I think there's another book with them on the cover?

 

VIII - Night Lords: hit or miss. Have some moments nad what little I have read/listened of them I thought was ok.kle some others on this list, I think they deserve a novella or something that really fleshed them out on their own, without them having to fight other legions. I would love to know how they fought...say....Orkz or something where the typical tactics they employ may not work.

 

IX - Blood Angels: full disclaimer there could be some bias alert here. I think they've come out horribly so far. And I'm not trying to play the victim card, it's just that there's been such a ridiculously small amount written about them in the HH series. Especially for a "Big 4" Chapter with one of, if not THE, most iconic Primarchs. I mean, at least the DA got volume of writing, even if it's (considered by some) not to be that great. What bothers me is that they are not even really mentioned in any other novels. There's no "man, I wish we had some BA around; we could really use some shock and awe" or "people think the BA are x. Hah. My grandmother was better at x than them!" Sanguinius gets name dropped a bit, but his Legion seemingly never does. And when Sang does, there's little showing and mostly telling. It's interesting because Fear to Tread was decent overall, yet it didn't really flesh them out as much as it could have/should have. You can tell it was somewhat written in a vacuum.

 

X - Iron Hands: overall positive outcome from HH. They have fifty bajillion short stories about them, but no major (quality?) novels with them as the stars (that I am aware of). They can be bit of a caricature at times, but considering they were more or less forgotten for a long stretch of one, the HH has done wonders for them. Case in point: the IH commander who has the cahones ball bearings to try to assassinate Horus anc Mortarion

 

XI - Redacted. They came out swimmingly. Realty, standout job. Bravo. Encore.

 

XII - World Eaters: not much really featuring them. Betrayer was good (just finished; more of my thoughts for another post), but I think a more in-depth look at the pre-Angron War Hounds would really have done wonders for them. The good news is that their shtick has been expanded from "chainaxes" to some sort of grimdark Cat's Cradle lullaby. I think they would be far more interesting to get a real look st what was lost

 

XIII - Ultramarines: I :cuss -ing hate UM and my hatred is only growing as 8th edition rams even more of their blue :cuss :cuss :cuss in our faces. They are :cuss -ing mentioned in so many novels in the HH series it's sickening. And it's NEVER something unflattering. A character could ambush a UM on the crapper without his armor or a weapon for a thousand miles and somehow the UM will come out without his :cuss stinking...even in the bathroom <eye roll>. On the other hand, Know No Fear was one of the best novels in the series and actually had me liking Guilliman for a bit and wnsting to know a bit more about the XIII. Then 8th launched.

 

XIV - Deathguard: a force that always plays second fiddle to someone else, usually with second fiddle results. Is it fair to say that Flight of the Eisenstein is "their" novel? Yea, that's my point. Like the IH and NL these guys deserve a moment in the spotlight all to themselves.

 

XV - Thousand Sons: their epynonimous novel was pretty good. I haven't read any of their other stuff but over all a positive showing.

 

XVI - Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus: another group featured in SO many novels, novellas, etc...Or at least mentioned. It's hard to grade them, because in many ways we have gotten little in the way of characterization. On the other hand, the little we have gotten has gone a long way. To a certain degree, they are one of the "winners" because so little was known about them before the series. On the other hand, there portrayal has been mixed. For all of Jorus's "go for the throat" reputation, I can't think of a single instance where that is really on display (I could be wrong)

 

XVII - Word Bearers: positive showing overall based on the sheer quantity of scenes they are in. And most surprisingly, their portrayal has been somewhat consistent overall, even if for not always great reasons (see footnote below). A bit more depth would be nice, but overall decent.

 

XVIII - Salamanders: the hardest one for me to comment on because I haven't read any of their Faction-specific outings, in no small part based on reputation alone (there's a whole other thread on the matter).

 

XIX - Raven Guard: I would have to say, with only having read Deliverence Lost and some random short stories, that they are actually worse off from the HH. They seem...lifeless as a group. They do stuff, but that's just it. They are some dudes doing some things, with no differentiators at all. Literally a different color scheme.

 

XX - Alpha Legion: mildly positive. Legion was a great read, though IMO, it has not aged well. Still working on Praetorian of Dorn, so no comment there. But they show up in a lot of stories, sometimes forcbetter, sometimes for worse. But there's yet to be any straight up "beating" the AL, so I have to say they've come out pretty good overall.

 

Custodes - have not gotten to Master of Mankind

 

Imperial Army - oh yea, these guys. Would love to have some characters that actually like, show up in multiple books. All just cannon fodder so far

 

Imperial Navy - couple cool ship captains. Some good scenes of how void warfare works. Not much else. Would love to see Master and Commander in spaaaaaace (say, there's an idea...)

 

Cabal and perpetuals: I still don't understand these things

 

 

 

Aside on why some legions get better treatment than others:

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-It's taken me a while to find the right words, but I think one of the major recurring issues with the BL books, especially the HH series, is the Goldilocks factor. So many of the novels and stories either assume you already know the nuances and ins and outs of a Legion/group, or they bed over backward to talk about how the group x wears color x, listens to x music, names al their dudes x, the x-iest x that ever x'd ad nauseum. The novels that really work have that "Goldlilocks" level of enough flavor and background to provide something new or enlightening without dragging things down.

 

When a Legion is featured, I want to know what makes it tick. for some reason the one that sticks in my head right now is Deliverence Lost. Like...other than Corax, how is this a story about the Raven Guard and not any other Legion? What are their collective ticks etc...? How would they attack a planet differently from say the SoH? Or the WE? Or better yet, the NL or AL?

 

Scars is an example of one that is well done: the Legion it features is living and breathing and distinct from others and you know it at every moment without being beat over the head with it. You see how they like speed. You see how they like to catch foes off guard. You see how they prefer to disengage from a disadvantageous battle rather than fight through the killzone. Yet they are not doing this because the most scarred dude in the scarred Chapter of the scarred Legion consulted the scarred bones of the scarred animal who was named Scar in life (and voiced by Jeremy Irons). They instead do these things because you see how they think, act and feel. What motivates them, etc...