So now that the Horus Heresy is almost over....

[Tymell]

 

Well as the reader I have no idea why Horus feared Sanguinius. I have nothing to back that up. Horus could have kicked Sanguinius' ass even before he turned naughty.

 

Clearly Horus does not feel the same way, or is at least not confident in that assumption.

 

I mean yes it sucks we got 15 Raven Guard, and 13 Salamander books instead of a few showing us the Sons of Horus and Angels working together, or Death Guard, or pre-Angron World Eaters, or post reunion Night Lords,  and why exactly Horus felt about Sanguinius that way...but its beyond the point of crying over spilt milk...we will never get some of the things we wanted at this point in the Heresy Arc. :[

 

 

Hopefully, some of those might be addressed within the Primarchs series. I was disappointed we never got to see anything about the razing of Olympia, until we got the superb Perturabo: The Hammer of Olympia.

 

As for Sanguinius, honestly, I think it's less that we always see him in non-combat situations, and more that we haven't seen that much of him period: to my knowledge he's only appeared in 13 stories of any kind, and some of those were either very brief cameos or very short stories. Setting aside the minor cameos and those few shorts (Sins of the Father, Virtues of the Sons, Herald of Sanguinius), the only real appearances have been in Horus Rising at Murder, Fear to Tread as a whole, Pharos and Angels of Caliban. Fear to Tread had it's share of combat with him (including his awesome introduction in the pre-Heresy prologue), Pharos had a pretty cool duel with Curze.

 

I would've enjoyed seeing him a bit more vengeful in Imperium Secundus too, maybe bringing him into Unremembered Empire earlier and replacing the good-but-largely-pointless second half vs. Curze. Guilliman having to talk him out of that and into the more productive role as Emperor? Anyway, yeah, I agree it would've been good to see more of that side of him, but I think it would've been good to see more of him period. And who knows, maybe Ruinstorm will help in that regard, we shall see.

[Indefragable]

Well as the reader I have no idea why Horus feared Sanguinius. I have nothing to back that up. Horus could have kicked Sanguinius' ass even before he turned naughty.

Not going to lie, a lot of your overly snarky and inflammatory remarks tend to try my patience (and as one who appreciates the finer points of snark). However, you are pretty spot on with this comment. It's like the entire series has been holding its breath as to when Big S is actually going to do something cool. Fear to Tread had its moments (and still the best cover art in all of BL), but as others pointed out, whipping greater daemons is kind of the new black.

 

Horus' lament that "It should have been Snaguinius" is still the best thing he's got going for him so far.

[TRIBUN]

We definitely need a death guard/iron hands/SoH novel from ADB to save the day for those legions! Edited August 19, 2017 by TRIBUN

[Mellow]

 

Well as the reader I have no idea why Horus feared Sanguinius. I have nothing to back that up. Horus could have kicked Sanguinius' ass even before he turned naughty.

Not going to lie, a lot of your overly snarky and inflammatory remarks tend to try my patience (and as one who appreciates the finer points of snark). However, you are pretty spot on with this comment.

That's nice. Glad you agree.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Mellow you're our new snarky snark ! :D

[Marshal Loss]

Yeah, for a character who plays such a pivotal role in the setting, I don't think Sanguinius has been covered well at all over the course of the novel series. At this point, I think only an ADB siege novel could save the character for me. His best moment has been a small cameo in HH: Inferno in my view.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[b1soul]

I didn't think Sanguinius and his Heresy-era BA (with the likes of Raldoron, Azkaellon, and Amit) could be made into incredibly bland vanilla marines with a red paint job...

 

Then I read Fear to Tread

[Felix Antipodes]

Im pretty sure they have been holding off on stories about the Legions involved in the siege of Terra (BA, IF, WS, SOH, WE, etc) in an attempt to wrap up the storylines of everyone else before the big finale commences. I just hope the final novels are not just 90% bolter porn as the series, and the readers, deserve more.

[karden00]

We definitely need a death guard/iron hands/SoH novel from ADB to save the day for those legions!

We. Do. Not. Need. Any. More. Iron. Hands.

[DarkChaplain]

We're getting the wrap up of the Meduson storyline with Old Earth and Ferrus is due for Primarchs via David Guymer in a few months. The Iron Hands have been covered well across the series.

 

I don't see why you'd need AD-B specifically to cover the Death Guard, especially when you have two authors who might be writing their fall novel already with Wraight and Swallow. Both have DG under their belt. AD-B had Cadian Blood, but how long ago was that? 8 years? I don't see him making room for a DG novel, or Iron Hands, or Sons of Horus, or basically anything beyond Blood Angels for the rest of the series. Nightfall seems unlikely by his own admission now, and basically everything outside of the Siege is locked down already anyway.

 

I just don't see the point in irrationally putting all hopes into a single author who, by his own admission, takes a long time to write books. His works are fantastic, yes, but I'd rather see him picking up projects that he actually wants to do or has an idea for and allow him the time to write them, rather than shoehorning him into every book for the rest of the series just because somebody didn't like a particular book by another author.

[HeritorA]

We definitely need a death guard/iron hands/SoH novel from ADB to save the day for those legions!

Or Wraight or French or even Haley.

Everyone of them is a talented and famous author for BL.

 

 

We definitely need a death guard/iron hands/SoH novel from ADB to save the day for those legions!

We. Do. Not. Need. Any. More. Iron. Hands.

 

But. You. Will. Get. Them. In. The. Old. Earth.

[Augustus]

the only Legions that benefited from the BL novels so far, IMO, are the World Eaters, Word Bearers, Ultramarines and the White Scars.

 

Some legions were actively harmed by their portrayal in the BL novels, like the Raven Guard, Iron Hands and Salamanders. It'l like the Dropsite Massacre wasnt enough punishment.

 

I'm very mixed on the Wolves.

 

Thats a good assessment. I'd add the Dark Angels to my own personal "mixed" column. 

[Augustus]

It's time for the traitors to start taking their lumps and we know it doesn't end well for them. Rarely did loyalists get any major wins... mostly traitors winning big time after time... very predictable. I have enjoyed many of the novels though.

 

While probably not fun to read about from a Loyalist fan perspective, but the loyalists get their wins by turning the traitors' victories pyrrhic. 

 

The failure of the virus bombing Istvaan III

Escape of the Eisenstein

Loyalist's escaping Istvaan IV (kinda made flat by Horus, at Alpharius' request, allowing them to.

Alpharius' failed gambit (deadened IIRC that Horus didn't really care what he did)

Sanguinius rejecting Chaos (lessened by the fact the Horus didn't want him)

Scars getting word of the Heresy and following the Emperor

Manus rejecting Horus

Failed Assassination of Guillimen.

Vulcan (still) lives!

Space Wolves slipping out of the Alpha Legion's trap.

The Night Lords (sorta) failing keeping the Dark Angels from. Broken as a cohesive fighting force--then Pharos. (Never really understood this one as the warp storms were doing their Job for them)

Warp Storm shenanigans fail to keep the Blood Angels from Terra.

 

Too tired to think of any more but I believe I agree with you that there are not too many battles that come to mind for Loyalists. But I think that was intended. The Loyalists are on the ropes. But due to the fact that the series is older than loan I paid off on my house it feels that they've been there a looong time. -- Just my opinion but I never really understood why the series is "sequential" if the ending is already known.

[Phoebus]

I'm not sure I understand the concern about a lack of loyalist victories. This is the Horus Heresy. The climactic battle is fought on Terra. Horus cannot get to Terra on the back of decisive losses. Good fiction doesn't require the "good guys" to win.

 

I'm far more concerned about the fact that this series was supposed to cover a seven-year war of galactic scale, and that a very large part of it has been devoted to factions that are described as nuances on the margins of the conflict even within the stories that feature them. Two legions who were begging for an expanded role in the Heresy* were instead mired in a side-story that sought to explain why ONE prominent legion didn't feature in the larger conflict.

 

By contrast, the actual effort of Horus Lupercal and the majority of his forces to fight from Isstvan to the outskirts of Terra has received little more than cursory mentions in the above stories. We hear about this inexorable march, about planets burning and/or turning on the Imperium, on armies and fleets being annihilated, but what we get instead is tales about how a Shattered Legions mixed company can't stop them, or about what a company of Iron Hands would do if confronted with a Exorcist Meets Jurassic Park scenario.

 

* Following "Savage Weapons" and The Lion, the Dark Angels are basically put in the perfect position to enter the Heresy. This coincides with the Space Wolves storyline, which finds them at the mercy of the Alpha Legion post-Prospero. The old lore already had the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves fighting alongside each other but not able to get back to Terra on time. So what happens instead? The Dark Angels go to Imperium Secundus because it's somehow not UTTERLY OBVIOUS that this is a result of hardly anyone being able to get in or out of the Ruinstorm. The Space Wolves escape thanks to OTHER Dark Angels, go back to Terra, and then go to face off with the traitors in a battle that is only alluded to in Corax. The Blood Angels, of whose exploits post Signus and pre-Terra nothing was known, also end up at Imperium Secundus, where, along with the Dark Angels and Ultramarines, they engage in nation-building based on a monumental assumption.

[Felix Antipodes]

The Imperials will get their time to shine (and Chaos followers get their chance to complain about the number of Imperial victories) when we get to the scouring after the HH raps up.

 

@Phoebus - I would have liked it if BL had done a series of shorts from a SOH and/or allies perspective and their varied war fronts. This would have allowed us the opportunity to see a wider view of the rebellion and its effects and, possibly make us u der stand why it took seven years to get to Terra.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'd love to see what John French can do writing some novels for Loyalist Chapters during the Scouring.

[Moonreaper666]

It's time for the traitors to start taking their lumps and we know it doesn't end well for them. Rarely did loyalists get any major wins... mostly traitors winning big time after time... very predictable. I have enjoyed many of the novels though.

The Night Lords vehemently disagree with your statement (10:1 death ratio and losing a Traitor Titan Legion sucks)

 

Death Guard have some losses as well:

 

-Typhus losses the Sentient Warp Engine (Which would have allowed the Traitors to eradicate the White Scars and Shattered Legions)

 

-Death Guard battles against the White Scars count as defeats

[DarkChaplain]

Can I ask what Nightfall is? I've seen it mentioned several times and for the life of me I don't know what it could be.

 

 

Nightfall was the working title (if you can even call it that at that stage) of the Night Lords novel AD-B considered writing for the HH. It has since fallen by the wayside and is unlikely to ever be written, mostly due to time constraints within the series and a lack of room within the ongoing narrative. It was first mentioned many years ago as something that may happen, so some fans still hope that it might even though chances are pretty much nil.

[HeritorA]

 

Can I ask what Nightfall is? I've seen it mentioned several times and for the life of me I don't know what it could be.

 

 

Nightfall was the working title (if you can even call it that at that stage) of the Night Lords novel AD-B considered writing for the HH. It has since fallen by the wayside and is unlikely to ever be written, mostly due to time constraints within the series and a lack of room within the ongoing narrative. It was first mentioned many years ago as something that may happen, so some fans still hope that it might even though chances are pretty much nil.

 

By today it's actually not to write it all. We all suffering from Curze fatigue now. They used him so much since 2012 that he is a joke now.

Plus we will get him AGAIN this october with Ruinstorm.

 

As for the 'Nightfall' as a flagship and the story of the NL warbands (Painted Count included) - that all could be written as a novella size story linking it all up to the Siege of Terra later on

[Tymell]

 

 

As for the 'Nightfall' as a flagship and the story of the NL warbands (Painted Count included) - that all could be written as a novella size story linking it all up to the Siege of Terra later on

 

 

I'd enjoy this for a few of the traitor legions. Not necessarily full books, but novellas or other such stories getting them to Terra or generally looking at what they've been up to. The Night Lords and Emperor's Children we've seen pieces of, but they're both scattered, and Fulgrim we haven't really seen since Molech ("Imperfect" maybe, but even if that is after Molech it's only a self-contained short). The Word Bearers and World Eaters we've barely seen since the Shadow Crusade, which chronologically was years ago.

 

So yeah, I could go for some shorter pieces just catching up with them.

[A D-B]

 

 

Can I ask what Nightfall is? I've seen it mentioned several times and for the life of me I don't know what it could be.

 

 

Nightfall was the working title (if you can even call it that at that stage) of the Night Lords novel AD-B considered writing for the HH. It has since fallen by the wayside and is unlikely to ever be written, mostly due to time constraints within the series and a lack of room within the ongoing narrative. It was first mentioned many years ago as something that may happen, so some fans still hope that it might even though chances are pretty much nil.

 

By today it's actually not to write it all. We all suffering from Curze fatigue now. 

 

Again, you're taking your thoughts as gospel, dude. I'm not saying I disagree with you, personally-speaking, but "When will you write Nightfall?" and "Can we get more Curze/Sevatar?" are by faaaarrrrrrr the most common questions I get, often several times a day.

 

Remember, not everyone has your experience with the series and has read the things you've read. 

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

As for the 'Nightfall' as a flagship and the story of the NL warbands (Painted Count included) - that all could be written as a novella size story linking it all up to the Siege of Terra later on

 

 

I'd enjoy this for a few of the traitor legions. Not necessarily full books, but novellas or other such stories getting them to Terra or generally looking at what they've been up to. The Night Lords and Emperor's Children we've seen pieces of, but they're both scattered, and Fulgrim we haven't really seen since Molech ("Imperfect" maybe, but even if that is after Molech it's only a self-contained short). The Word Bearers and World Eaters we've barely seen since the Shadow Crusade, which chronologically was years ago.

 

So yeah, I could go for some shorter pieces just catching up with them.

 

And in my opinion - that's the best way to make all fans happy. The ones who want novels and Siege of Terra would be happy to read novels first and novellas later. The ones who want 'more' fillers > will get their chance too.

 

And you do not need the same amount of time and edit to release a novella.

 

A D-B

'Again, you're taking your thoughts as gospel, dude. I'm not saying I disagree with you, personally-speaking, but "When will you write Nightfall?" and "Can we get more Curze/Sevatar?" are by faaaarrrrrrr the most common questions I get, often several times a day.'

I know, believe me I know that fanbase That's why a novella size solution I mentioned - in my opinion is the best way to move forward.

P.S. Can't wait for the Kenny podcast for you to answer for the 'void war' crimes ;)

Edited August 23, 2017 by HeritorA

[Mellow]

So basically:

 

46 is Ruinstorm

47 is Old Earth

48 ?

49 ?

50 ?

 

Surely it can't go much past 50? That would be heresy.

[Bulwyf]

I personally hope when the conclude the Heresy series that we get the prequel: The Great Crusade series. I know I am not the only one that would like to read more about how the Legions did before the Heresy.

[Tymell]

So basically:

 

46 is Ruinstorm

47 is Old Earth

48 ?

49 ?

50 ?

 

Surely it can't go much past 50? That would be heresy.

 

I'd say it will almost certainly go beyond 50, though probably not much beyond it. Assuming everything is collected into the numbered series, we'll likely see a Betrayal at Calth book with The Honoured and The Unburdened, and a Salamanders collection (ala Corax) with Promethean Sun, Scorched Earth and Sons of the Forge. Aside from those we have the makings of at least another 2 collection anthologies (Wolf King, Cybernetica and currently 18 shorts/audios, plus more to come no doubt), and a Doom of the Death Guard book. Possibly a Wolf Cull book too. If so, that would take us up to 53.

 

I don't think there's much to tell beyond that, as those books would really move most of the forces into position for the Siege, but there's always the possibility of a surprise or two.