Would you find this acceptable at your gaming group/table?

[Bulwyf]

I was playing today at my FLGS at another table when I heard a bit of a kerfuffle behind me at another table.

 

One of the newer players was playing Death Guard. No problems with that. But what started a pretty long and fairly serious fight was what he brought as his army.

 

He brought little plastic green army men to "count as" his Poxwalkers. His other models were not fully assembled and none were painted. The veterans there were either amused, angry or outraged that someone was bringing sixty green army men to "count as" any GW model.

 

The guy he was scheduled to play refused to play him and no one there was willing to play him. I was busy with my own game and had to go to work after that game finished. I hate seeing a relatively new player being chastised to the degree he was but I can understand why no one would want to play that.

 

Have you guys had something like this happen to you before? Do you think it is too much to ask others to play against something like that?

[General Strike]

I rarely see a fully painted army at my FLGS. Most are either primed or base coated only, and the painted ones only show up for competitions or events. It would annoy me a bit, but I would play a new guy so he can learn to play. I didn't turn down playing that black primed chaos army cause the guy was new.

[Corswain]

Wouldn't bother me from a new hobbyist. Especially as poxwalkers aren't available in great quantities yet.

If he continued to bring them in after they release in their own box? Not sure.... gotta draw a line somewhere I guess but I wouldn't want to ostrasize somebody over it.

 

Maybe he can't afford an army and will steadily replace them as he can.

Always another side to the story.

[Marqol]

Obviously not being there I can't really know the full story but flat out refusing to play him seems just a horrible attitude. You need to encourage new players, without them our hobby will die. If there is a certain way of playing or a standard at that FLGS they should have given him the game but told him where his error was. Now all that has happened is a new player is maybe now disheartened about the game, which is never good. 

[Schlitzaf]

It depends honestly why. If it was simply because "no models" or if he could afford some (or some IG to convert up) but refused to do so because "GW overcharges etc". If the latter I would refuse to play against that kind of player.

 

It's just a personal thing. But I do not mind proxies etc, I do mind proxies when the proxies are not converted up or atleast suitable 3rd party candidates and (important And) are done explicitly only because 'GW don't want spend any money on hobby'. The latter it's just in bad form to me imho

[Kinstryfe]

New player, hard to get models, put in an effort, I'd be ok with the above scenario. A more experienced player wouldn't be able to pull it off with me though, though I'd be ok with a mixed pile of models being pox walkers in friendly games if need be, as not everyone is crazy enough to buy 3 boxed of DI just for those.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I'd be amused.

[Scribe]

Brand new learning? Sure, who wants to outlay hundreds to learn if nobody gives him a loaner army.

 

If he expects to use that going forward? Negative.

[D3L]

it matters little if he's playing with polystyrene from GW, polyurethane from FW or coloured rocks from the playground.

it's all abstract, or so I'm led to believe

refusing to play him is not a nice move, time to find a new FLGS?

[Slave to Darkness]

Ive proxied beer cans as drop pods before. Wasnt gonna spend that much on a few pods without trying them out in a few games first. Also people use 3rd party minis all the time, dont see how this is any different. 

[Bryan Blaire]

I think people need to ask themselves "Why" they would be opposed to something like that... if you are being elitist because "I spent all my money on GW stuff, everyone should have to also" - I personally wouldn't want to play you. If it is simply that they don't look like zombies, would you be okay if the person brought zombie models from any game line, as long as they were on "appropriate" bases? If the army men simply aren't depicting zombification, would you instead play said person and then comment that you could show the person how to make some hobby modifications?

[DuskRaider]

I would allow it... I mean, at this time the Death Guard army isn't even released per say. There's the limited models in the Dark Imperium box and unless you are willing to go on eBay and buy multiples and have the income to do so, I can see the issue. To insult and spurn a new player like that is unacceptable and I hope you put your gaming group in their place for their behavior.

[Schlitzaf]

@Bryan No I would refuse to play because, you are stealing from the company that made your rules and the time and effort it took to make them. As well as the implied time and effort it took to make and sculpt those models. All because you feel the hobby is too expensive.

 

If you want cheap mini's or to play for free. Vassal and other such properties exist. This hobby expensive, pony up or fine another miniature war game. There are cheaper ones out there. But if you do play. You should support the company, and I won't play against someone who is imho stealing.

[Bryan Blaire]

@Bryan No I would refuse to play because, you are stealing from the company that made your rules and the time and effort it took to make them. As well as the implied time and effort it took to make and sculpt those models. All because you feel the hobby is too expensive.

If you want cheap mini's or to play for free. Vassal and other such properties exist. This hobby expensive, pony up or fine another miniature war game. There are cheaper ones out there. But if you do play. You should support the company, and I won't play against someone who is imho stealing.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

That's too funny, and exactly the case of self-righteousness that has no business in this game.

 

Paying for the rules and paying for models are two completely separate events. Using one but not the other is in no way theft, and it takes some interesting (and depending on how you view it, dim or skilled) mental gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion.

 

Now, I'm always a proponent of "choosing your gaming partners and groups wisely to fit yourself" and playing what you want (heck, I think house rules can be quite fun, and even superior to the official ones), so as long as your gaming group can stomach that attitude, more power to them. You wouldn't find welcome with me or mine.

 

I'd definitely be trying to get the guy to up his hobby game. The answer above definitely smacks of "I spent my money, now go spend yours or you aren't as good as me. Me superior! Nyah Nyah!"

[Slave to Darkness]

Bet you have MP3's you never payed for ;)

[Kilofix]

Just playing devils advocate - some people play for the immersion and this would ruin it for them.

[Bryan Blaire]

Just playing devils advocate - some people play for the immersion and this would ruin it for them.

As I've said before, all the immersion has to happen in your mind anyway. The models don't move on their own or anything else. You aren't playing a movie on the tabletop. It isn't that much of a stretch to overlay Poxwalkers in your mind on little green army men any more than it is to imagine the clanking of a tank or the whine of power armor servos.

 

Immersion arguments don't even apply, because most people can't even paint their minis to the level of artistry depicted in the arms and armor of the denizens of 40K per the art work in the books, so you have to already be applying some imagination. Saying you can't take it any farther can't possibly be true.

[Schlitzaf]

@Slave actually honestly I have no pirated a single song in my entire life.

@Bryan so if I made a cartoon/tv show/etc about a character and you bought the complete DVD Collection but you still buy a cheap Chinese knock off of a toy made for my show. Are you not stealing?

[Arkangilos]

Totally different, because the guy with the armymen in this scenario is likely demoing the rules before deciding to invest in it.

 

And it's not stealing because it's using a totally unrelated line.

[Bulwyf]

I was giving the guy a break until he told us that has no intentions of buying models from the FLGS and that GW charges so much for models he was going to keep using little green army men. I offered to help him assemble and paint whatever models he wanted to try and bring but he wants to stick with little green army men.

 

I am not by any stretch a WYSIWYG or power player. I do think it is not unfair to expect people you play with to at least try to support the hobby and the FLGS that makes community gaming possible. We have a great local scene at my store. I know he'll get games from some people. His attitude really put people off when he was snidely asking people how much money they wasted on their models when little green army men worked just as well.

 

I appreciate where he is coming from...but there's no need for that kind of behavior.  I just found it so blatant that I had to ask for opinions. I've seen guys use various things as "stand in" models but nothing like that.

[Schlitzaf]

So it's okay to pirate a video game instead of downloading to demo just to see if you like it?

[Bryan Blaire]

@Bryan so if I made a cartoon/tv show/etc about a character and you bought the complete DVD Collection but you still buy a cheap Chinese knock off of a toy made for my show. Are you not stealing?

If it isn't an exact replica and/or doesn't violate trademark law, then no, I'm actually not stealing. The law is very clear about that, GW themselves found out that exact concept a few years ago.

 

Now, if I pirated the entire DVD collection, THEN I would be stealing.

[Arkangilos]

So it's okay to pirate a video game instead of downloading to demo just to see if you like it?

Except that, once again, this does not involve the actual model line. He's not buying Chinese recasts. He is using a totally different set.

If he bought the rules and wants to use different models, more power to him. He's not stealing :cuss.

[Bulwyf]

 

So it's okay to pirate a video game instead of downloading to demo just to see if you like it?

Except that, once again, this does not involve the actual model line. He's not buying Chinese recasts. He is using a totally different set.

If he bought the rules and wants to use different models, more power to him. He's not stealing .

 

 

I think his point is in this case do you think it is fair for someone to use a company's rules but not use their models for the same game.

[Bryan Blaire]

I was giving the guy a break until he told us that has no intentions of buying models from the FLGS and that GW charges so much for models he was going to keep using little green army men. I offered to help him assemble and paint whatever models he wanted to try and bring but he wants to stick with little green army men.

 

I am not by any stretch a WYSIWYG or power player. I do think it is not unfair to expect people you play with to at least try to support the hobby and the FLGS that makes community gaming possible. We have a great local scene at my store. I know he'll get games from some people. His attitude really put people off when he was snidely asking people how much money they wasted on their models when little green army men worked just as well.

 

I appreciate where he is coming from...but there's no need for that kind of behavior. I just found it so blatant that I had to ask for opinions. I've seen guys use various things as "stand in" models but nothing like that.

And that's really :cuss of him. That attitude is also unneeded in the hobby. That is also worthy of not playing, because he is disrespecting others' personal investment. If he doesn't want to invest anything, that's his call, but he also doesn't need to put others down for their interest.

 

Supporting the FLGS is always king - even if you are just buying materials there every now and then, books, paints and glue, snacks, etc., that's all fine. As soon as you won't support stuff, things dry up, and it really stinks to live in an area that is a 40K desert.

 

I think his point is in this case do you think it is fair for someone to use a company's rules but not use their models for the same game.

Why wouldn't it be fair, if you bought the rules?