Would you find this acceptable at your gaming group/table?

[CrimsonReign]

unless you're paying to play at the store, it's common courtesy to buy things from the place as you're using their facilities.

 

It's like going to a bar with a hip flask because you can get your drink of choice for cheaper from a supermarket

[Theradrussian]

The level of dis-ingenuity in some of the arguments here has got my eyes about to roll out of their sockets :D

Seriously, I expect this level of discourse from something like "40k for grown ups" on facebook! Letting someone test something out is ay-okay, othwerwise FLGSs wouldn't have demo armies because "hurr durr pay if you wanna even TRY". Riiiiiight.

[Trevak Dal]

If it's the green army men I'm thinking of, they would be easier to hit/see from them being almost the height of crisis suits. Eh :cuss it, I'd play him, and I got post-it notes and small flash cards if he had any countas things.

[RikuEru]

People need to read the full thread, not only the first post and then fly over the rest, because THIS FURTHER EXPLANATION by Bulwyf puts the whole story in an entirely different light!

And I think quite a handfull didn't see it, else their answers qould've sounded different, I bet.

 

I was giving the guy a break until he told us that has no intentions of buying models from the FLGS and that GW charges so much for models he was going to keep using little green army men. I offered to help him assemble and paint whatever models he wanted to try and bring but he wants to stick with little green army men.

 

I am not by any stretch a WYSIWYG or power player. I do think it is not unfair to expect people you play with to at least try to support the hobby and the FLGS that makes community gaming possible. We have a great local scene at my store. I know he'll get games from some people. His attitude really put people off when he was snidely asking people how much money they wasted on their models when little green army men worked just as well.

 

I appreciate where he is coming from...but there's no need for that kind of behavior. I just found it so blatant that I had to ask for opinions. I've seen guys use various things as "stand in" models but nothing like that.

[NovemberIX]

On one hand I'd be more or less fine playing someone who didn't use standard GW models for their army, on the other, if that same opponent then turned around and A.) gave me grief for my armies financial cost, and B.) was openly gloating about using their non-GW non-converted toys over in-scale painted models they'd probably get a mental dreadsocking as I pack my stuff back up. I'm all for crazy themed armies, I loved the Hello Kitty space marines (it was not only funny, but well done) and that (foam) "Cubes of Tzeentch" daemon army from a few years back. A green army men army could even be a fun gag once or twice in the right hands. This game is a cooperative experience though, and if one player isn't supportive of that, why even humor them by giving them attention?

 

Then again, the people I regularly play have awesomely painted armies, are exceptional modelers and enjoy not just the game, but the people too, so my grox manure tolerance is fairly low for grodnards of any type.

 

Edit: Removed unintentional emoticon.

[Damo1701]

Personally, I find the new player's attitude was totally rubbish, and I would refuse to play against them.

 

Sure.  If you want to use something either before you buy it, convert it, or finish building/painting it, then proxy with something similar.  But, work your backside off to get anything proxied ready asap.

 

Want to use 3rd party models because you have found some that fit your theme better than whatever is being produced by GW?  By all means!  Use the models that make you happy.

 

However, I draw the line at failure to support wherever you are playing.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've been into a GW or LGS to play, and ended up spending money, even if I shouldn't have.  I want to give something back to the place that let me play.

 

If you don't want to buy GW models because 3rd party ones CAN be cheaper, and represent your army better, go for it.

[Schlitzaf]

I guess agree to disagree with some of you here but I consider it stealing. HOWEVER I want to emphasis the larger point I was making which is the above post. Buying models are about supporting the institution you are playing at more than anything

[Trevak Dal]

Ive proxied beer cans as drop pods before. Wasnt gonna spend that much on a few pods without trying them out in a few games first. Also people use 3rd party minis all the time, dont see how this is any different.

Yeah I used tang canisters. Glad I didn't spend 35-40 dollars on all those drop pods now that they are 100+ points each.

 

I was giving the guy a break until he told us that has no intentions of buying models from the FLGS and that GW charges so much for models he was going to keep using little green army men.

Oh then that's a no go.

[Servant of Dante]

I think it's entirely ridiculous to say you won't play someone because they don't want to spend the money on GW models. I mean, all I ask is that the bases are the proper size and it's not too hard to tell what's what. Beyond that you can use whatever models you want. Telling someone's they can't play the game unless they support the store or whatever is ridiculous, I've bought very few models from my LGS, since Sisters are a webstore exclusive.

 

Also, i think it's simply unfair to expect all players to be invested in the hobby to the same extent as you. The majority of players will have GW models, but if someone just wants to play the game and has properly based green army men for his army, well I'd play against them because they want to play the game. Not everyone wants to make the monetary investment in GW models. That's their decision and I think it's entirely unfair to deny them a game because of that. Sure a fully painted army looks nicer but I'm not going to turn someone down because of that.

 

Now, when he stars asking people how much money they "wasted" on GW hobby materials, that's crossing a line. I don't like elitist 40K players (and I see expecting everyone to have a fully painted GW army as the highest form of elitism), but the same goes for this counter-elitism of "I'm better than you for NOT buying GW models"

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I wouldn't have played him for the sole reason that green army men are not properly based for a game of 40K.  They don't even have regularly-sized bases, often taking the rough outline of figure-8s, for example.  That completely throws off measurements for weapon ranges and charge/engagement distances.  If he glued them down to spare bases, that's one thing, but then he opened his mouth and started laughing at everyone's contribution to the hobby?  What a child.  If he doesn't understand that it's not just a game but a hobby, then he can sit on the curb because I won't play him and I'll tell everyone else not to play him, either.

[Schlitzaf]

The issue I have with this kid is the counter-elitism. I.e purposefully not buying GW Models for the reasons describe. That is why I consider it stealing sense the intent is not buying models or using cheaper models but it is both deliberate undercutting of the community, the gaming space provided etc. It is stealing because you are using the faculties of whatever institution and deliberately avoiding paying back so you can be counter elitist.

 

Don't use GW models as long as they are apporiate looking or otherwise. But if you refuse to buy models because hobby is too expensive sense you refuse to buy "glorified 1 dollar plastics" is where I start consider you actively stealing. At your house I don't care use and play with what you want. Step a foot into an LGS I expect common decency to support the institution

[Slave to Darkness]

As the dude said he isnt using GW minis because they cost too much then nah, screw him. 

 

Now Im off to play a downloaded version of Fallout 3, ttyl :P

[Servant of Dante]

The issue I have with this kid is the counter-elitism. I.e purposefully not buying GW Models for the reasons describe. That is why I consider it stealing sense the intent is not buying models or using cheaper models but it is both deliberate undercutting of the community, the gaming space provided etc. It is stealing because you are using the faculties of whatever institution and deliberately avoiding paying back so you can be counter elitist.

 

Don't use GW models as long as they are apporiate looking or otherwise. But if you refuse to buy models because hobby is too expensive sense you refuse to buy "glorified 1 dollar plastics" is where I start consider you actively stealing. At your house I don't care use and play with what you want. Step a foot into an LGS I expect common decency to support the institution

People can spend what they want on the game. The store isn't losing money from him not buying anything vs him not coming in at all. Maybe he'll buy snacks from the store or something, in which case the store is gaining vs him not coming. I still think it's unfair to expect everyone to want to spend money on GW models. I would encourage it, but if someone wanted to play the game using army men, that's not stealing, that's someone who wasn't going to spend money on the hobby AT ALL who might now buy some dice or a rulebook or whatever.

 

Edit: you're arguing that not buying anything from GW is fine (ie people who don't play 40K) but buying a rulebook and nothing else is stealing. It's ridiculous.

 

When I said "counter-elitist" I didn't mean not buying the models. If anything it's elitist to expect everyone to buy the models. What I meant was this person making fun of others for spending money on the hobby. That's the only issue I have with this situation.

[Dragonlover]

You walk into my shop and explicitly say you aren't buying anything ever, and have no intention to start, I'll stop giving a damn about your needs. I've got customers that do need my attention and brainpower thank very much.

 

It's a step above (below?) the guys who come in, ask a bunch of questions then buy the games on eBay, then come in and tell us they did that. God that winds me up.

 

Dragonlover

[Schlitzaf]

Counter-Elitist attitude, he is purposefully not buying miniatures not because Green Army are cheaper but because he feels himself better then someone who is buying glorified "1 Dollar Plastics." Someone who is doing so for that reason I cannot expect to buy anything from an LGS.

 

@Dante Edit that is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. I am saying his intent to why he is not buying is stealing. Not the act in and of itself. Heck I played with folks using toy cars for Battle Wagons. If you play at a store you should support the institution period. If I had money I'd donate to B&C right now for essentially the same reason.

 

If you read what I wrote I said "you can use Proxies or otherwise as long as they apporiatelly represent the model", what matters here is supporting the institution and it's actively stealing because the reason he refuses to buy models is to not give money to someone who is in his mind overcharging. If he had brought Green Army Men because that is all he can afford it wouldn't been stealing in my mind. But it is I stated in my post, the issue is his active decision to not buy from Games Workshop or other companies because they are too expensive. Not because he cannot afford it.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

As an aside I am sitting here giggling at the notion that if you use GW rules you HAVE to use GW models.

 

 

 

I play SAGA using Space Wolf minis and my Bretonnians are usually found on the battlefields of Lion Rampant fighting under the banner of 'Numpty Norman the inbred heir to the lord of Norfolk'. 

 

 

 

Oh also steal

stiːl/

verb

gerund or present participle: stealing

1. 1.

   take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

I wouldnt say he is stealing exactly, he is just being a complete :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:, with that attitude I would tell him to jog on.

He would get turfed out of a GW store for trying that, if the FLGS store owner lets him in then thats his fault, but GW aint loosing out as they have already made their money selling product to the store as far as I know. So does that mean buying from non GW stores is theft as they sell it for a profit and the extra cash doesnt go to GW? HE hasnt 'stolen' anything exactly, he is just taking the piss. 

 

As for the 'how much money have you wasted lolz' thing, just dreadsock the guy down an alleyway and carry on with your day, IMHO ANYTHING that isnt spent on clothes, food, or bills to keep a roof over your head is a luxury and a non essential 'waste' of money, but if thats what makes people happy then thats fine so waste away!!! 

[Warhead01]

I don't think I'd be able to really play against the army that was Described in the op.  It would confuse me and I don't think I could get into it really.  I can't really play against unpainted models wither, I for some reason tend to not see them on the table. I forget they're units in play. I've had games where models are there but I forgot they were units and my mind thought it was terrain. So Even though they had fired on my army for a few turns it didn't register.  The best I could do is encourage that player to build and paint their mini's. 

[Arkangilos]

Counter-Elitist attitude, he is purposefully not buying miniatures not because Green Army are cheaper but because he feels himself better then someone who is buying glorified "1 Dollar Plastics." Someone who is doing so for that reason I cannot expect to buy anything from an LGS.

 

@Dante Edit that is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. I am saying his intent to why he is not buying is stealing. Not the act in and of itself. Heck I played with folks using toy cars for Battle Wagons. If you play at a store you should support the institution period. If I had money I'd donate to B&C right now for essentially the same reason.

 

If you read what I wrote I said "you can use Proxies or otherwise as long as they apporiatelly represent the model", what matters here is supporting the institution and it's actively stealing because the reason he refuses to buy models is to not give money to someone who is in his mind overcharging. If he had brought Green Army Men because that is all he can afford it wouldn't been stealing in my mind. But it is I stated in my post, the issue is his active decision to not buy from Games Workshop or other companies because they are too expensive. Not because he cannot afford it.

That makes no sense at all and is incredibly arbitrary.

[Schlitzaf]

 

Counter-Elitist attitude, he is purposefully not buying miniatures not because Green Army are cheaper but because he feels himself better then someone who is buying glorified "1 Dollar Plastics." Someone who is doing so for that reason I cannot expect to buy anything from an LGS.

@Dante Edit that is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. I am saying his intent to why he is not buying is stealing. Not the act in and of itself. Heck I played with folks using toy cars for Battle Wagons. If you play at a store you should support the institution period. If I had money I'd donate to B&C right now for essentially the same reason.

If you read what I wrote I said "you can use Proxies or otherwise as long as they apporiatelly represent the model", what matters here is supporting the institution and it's actively stealing because the reason he refuses to buy models is to not give money to someone who is in his mind overcharging. If he had brought Green Army Men because that is all he can afford it wouldn't been stealing in my mind. But it is I stated in my post, the issue is his active decision to not buy from Games Workshop or other companies because they are too expensive. Not because he cannot afford it.

That makes no sense at all and is incredibly arbitrary.

It's not that arbitrary, it's simply that in this scenerio intent matters

[Servant of Dante]

You walk into my shop and explicitly say you aren't buying anything ever, and have no intention to start, I'll stop giving a damn about your needs. I've got customers that do need my attention and brainpower thank very much.

 

It's a step above (below?) the guys who come in, ask a bunch of questions then buy the games on eBay, then come in and tell us they did that. God that winds me up.

 

Dragonlover

So you'd rather they just not come into your store than come into your store and play a games but not buy much? Ok.

 

 

Counter-Elitist attitude, he is purposefully not buying miniatures not because Green Army are cheaper but because he feels himself better then someone who is buying glorified "1 Dollar Plastics." Someone who is doing so for that reason I cannot expect to buy anything from an LGS.

@Dante Edit that is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. I am saying his intent to why he is not buying is stealing. Not the act in and of itself. Heck I played with folks using toy cars for Battle Wagons. If you play at a store you should support the institution period. If I had money I'd donate to B&C right now for essentially the same reason.

If you read what I wrote I said "you can use Proxies or otherwise as long as they apporiatelly represent the model", what matters here is supporting the institution and it's actively stealing because the reason he refuses to buy models is to not give money to someone who is in his mind overcharging. If he had brought Green Army Men because that is all he can afford it wouldn't been stealing in my mind. But it is I stated in my post, the issue is his active decision to not buy from Games Workshop or other companies because they are too expensive. Not because he cannot afford it.

That makes no sense at all and is incredibly arbitrary.

It's not that arbitrary, it's simply that in this scenerio intent matters

Yeah, you're saying that you'd rather this person buy absolutely nothing from GW and this store than buy just the rules and play with chap models (since buying nothing wouldn't be stealing since you aren't playing the game). That makes no sense if you're goal is to have people spend money at the store.

[Schlitzaf]

If that individual is worsening the community and providing a negative gaming prescence. Yes. Sense that might turn around someone who would have contributed and provided far more to the community.

[sockwithaticket]

 

You walk into my shop and explicitly say you aren't buying anything ever, and have no intention to start, I'll stop giving a damn about your needs. I've got customers that do need my attention and brainpower thank very much.

 

It's a step above (below?) the guys who come in, ask a bunch of questions then buy the games on eBay, then come in and tell us they did that. God that winds me up.

 

Dragonlover

So you'd rather they just not come into your store than come into your store and play a games but not buy much? Ok.

There's a difference between not buying much and not buying anything. In the example that started the thread, Bulwyf later clarified that the guy said he had no intention of supporting the FLGS by buying stuff there.

 

I can totally understand why a proprietor would then take a 'feth you' attitude towards that person. It will be a better use of their time and effort, due to greater potential reward, to focus on existing customers.

 

Someone who comes in and doesn't by much is at least contributing to the existence of that FLGS and the services it offers in some way and is someone in whom it might be worth investing time convincing them to buy more.

 

 

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

 

You walk into my shop and explicitly say you aren't buying anything ever, and have no intention to start, I'll stop giving a damn about your needs. I've got customers that do need my attention and brainpower thank very much.

 

It's a step above (below?) the guys who come in, ask a bunch of questions then buy the games on eBay, then come in and tell us they did that. God that winds me up.

 

Dragonlover

So you'd rather they just not come into your store than come into your store and play a games but not buy much? Ok.

There's a difference between not buying much and not buying anything. In the example that started the thread, Bulwyf later clarified that the guy said he had no intention of supporting the FLGS by buying stuff there.

 

I can totally understand why a proprietor would then take a 'feth you' attitude towards that person. It will be a better use of their time and effort, due to greater potential reward, to focus on existing customers.

 

Someone who comes in and doesn't by much is at least contributing to the existence of that FLGS and the services it offers in some way and is someone in whom it might be worth investing time convincing them to buy more.

 

I agree that the person described by the OP has a terrible attitude and probabaly doesn't deserve the store owner's respect, I was just talking in a general sense about people who don't buy things often.

[Slave to Darkness]

If he keeps that behavior up he wont be in the hobby for long. People will get sick of him and just ignore him.

Manager should just do the arsey 'if your not buying or painting then do one' thing. If your not actually contributing in any way shape or form by being in the store and all you do is piss people off then there is no reason to even be there.

[sockwithaticket]

 

 

 

You walk into my shop and explicitly say you aren't buying anything ever, and have no intention to start, I'll stop giving a damn about your needs. I've got customers that do need my attention and brainpower thank very much.

 

It's a step above (below?) the guys who come in, ask a bunch of questions then buy the games on eBay, then come in and tell us they did that. God that winds me up.

 

Dragonlover

So you'd rather they just not come into your store than come into your store and play a games but not buy much? Ok.

There's a difference between not buying much and not buying anything. In the example that started the thread, Bulwyf later clarified that the guy said he had no intention of supporting the FLGS by buying stuff there.

 

I can totally understand why a proprietor would then take a 'feth you' attitude towards that person. It will be a better use of their time and effort, due to greater potential reward, to focus on existing customers.

 

Someone who comes in and doesn't by much is at least contributing to the existence of that FLGS and the services it offers in some way and is someone in whom it might be worth investing time convincing them to buy more.

 

I agree that the person described by the OP has a terrible attitude and probabaly doesn't deserve the store owner's respect, I was just talking in a general sense about people who don't buy things often.

 

Ah ok, I read Dragonlover's post as being directed toward the guy the thread's about rather than generally at people who don't buy much.