=][= Unit(s) of the week: Dedicated Transports =][=

[Altasmurf]

Yeah the multi laser is probably the most limited weapon in the guard codex this edition. Which is sad because it's such a guard weapon. It needs something, otherwise every other weapon over shadows it. FOR chimera I would go some combination of heavy bolter and heavy flamers.

[Guardsman Bob]

As I imgaine many people have done I kitted most (2/3) of my Chimeras with ML's/HB's as S6 still had its advantages in 7th (eg. wounding T4 on 2's).

However in 8th with the changes to the wounding table S5 vs S6 only really matters at T10+, which right now I am not sure what unit actually has such a profile, and T3-, which I don't often face.

Considering the original kit only allowed for the multilaser it shouldn't be surprising. I find it odd how the multilaser has been left with the range nerf and is still more expensive than the heavy bolter.

 

There's plenty of game revamping the Devs need to do to bring everything into line with this 8th edition.

[duz_]

I find the oddest part how much more expensive it is vs the heavy bolter, but it has only a few circumstantial benefits.

 

Hopefully the codex will provide more reason to take it.

[Withershadow]

Since the assault cannon went up to 6 shots, multi-laser should too.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, I ran a pair of ML Sentinels yesterday. The ML used to be a decent generalist weapon for plinking wounds off things, but now it's just a bit rubbish. I found myself wishing I could equip Heavy Bolters instead, as those were doing pretty well on my HWS.

[Altasmurf]

Personally i haven't found a need for dedicated transports yet. Right now artillery allows me to hit any target on the board and "move, move, move" has my squads cover 14" to 24" in a single turn. So I don't really require an outside source to drop fire power in a specific point, or to cover ground quickly.

 

This also includes the fact I don't use deep striking stormies as my opponents easily bubble wrap limiting their use. I know people are loving the double heavy flamer version but if rather a hell hound. To me I'm not seeing the need for dedicated transports in a guard list as if right now.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Personally i haven't found a need for dedicated transports yet. Right now artillery allows me to hit any target on the board and "move, move, move" has my squads cover 14" to 24" in a single turn. So I don't really require an outside source to drop fire power in a specific point, or to cover ground quickly.

 

This also includes the fact I don't use deep striking stormies as my opponents easily bubble wrap limiting their use. I know people are loving the double heavy flamer version but if rather a hell hound. To me I'm not seeing the need for dedicated transports in a guard list as if right now.

This has been, word for word, my experience as well.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Same here. Walking across the board is a bit more viable now.

[duz_]

Plus the fact you get to pick casualties vs having to pick them from the front / closest first.

 

I was so demoralized when I first got into 7th moving my blob squads forward to an objective 6" only to have them shot back the same distance in my opponents turn.

 

Move move move is super handy too

 

Tbh I'm not super bummed transports aren't essential so far this edition. Im assuming when our codex drops there's probably valid reasons to load them with veterans.

[WarriorFish]

I never used Chimeras a great deal, but I agree with the above sentiments. It's good that transports don't feel so essential at times as duz said, but I feel the cost of fielding them is usually better spent on yet more troopers.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Well, Chimeras can deliver specialist units you'd rather not get shot. I've been experimenting with putting a special weapons squad, with two flamers and a melta, a command squad, either all plasma, all melta, or all flamers, as the occasion calls for, a Company Commander, and an Astropath, into a chimera. Either double heavy bolters, to guard your lines, and counter assault things that get close, or double heavy flamer as a method of bringing pain. In either case, those units would be dead pretty quickly without the chimera. 

[Altasmurf]

I agree in principle, but to be honest I would just rather us some artillery. For the amount of points all of that is you can get a couple basilisks and just rain death right from turn 1. I to have tried similar units and, you're right the best use of a chimera is protecting something you don't want shot, these units do their thing and then are killed or out of position, or some how nullified. Now if they bring back minimum ranges on the artillery I would change my tune but for now I'm going to just keep raining death.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, if you have a high-power unit in a Chimera, it's a big, fat target IMO. Vets in Chimeras worked because there was enough of them to draw fire, but if you're only taking 1-2 crammed full of points-y units, then IMO it probably won't last long.

[Tirak]

Well, Chimeras can deliver specialist units you'd rather not get shot. I've been experimenting with putting a special weapons squad, with two flamers and a melta, a command squad, either all plasma, all melta, or all flamers, as the occasion calls for, a Company Commander, and an Astropath, into a chimera. Either double heavy bolters, to guard your lines, and counter assault things that get close, or double heavy flamer as a method of bringing pain. In either case, those units would be dead pretty quickly without the chimera. 

 

Chimera full of plasma guns is a waste honestly, you may as well take a Valkyrie and drop them on top of big things, that's what they're for after all. 60points is the difference between a Chimera which can be assaulted and the troops inside only able to disembark at the start of the movement phase, and a Valkyrie which cannot be assaulted except by Fly rule troops, able to drop melta teams off right ontop of enemy heavy supports.

 

The Chimera's desperatly need a reduction in price and Command Vehicle back at least.

[zero88]

Command vehicle, bring back the top hatch, and a 10 point reduction would fix the Chimera chassis for me. Then fixing the multilaser is a different issue entirely

[olcottr]

You can't hold ground with Artillery shells.  You need something to transport those troops to grab objectives.

[Tirak]

You can't hold ground with Artillery shells.  You need something to transport those troops to grab objectives.

 

Arvus Lighters are 115 points, hard to hit and can deepstrike normal squads. If I needed fast transport and Move Move Move wasn't an option, I'd take those over a Chimera.

[Altasmurf]

You can't hold ground with Artillery shells. You need something to transport those troops to grab objectives.

"Move, move, move". Like I say 14" to 24" gets the men there. I have no problem getting to where I need to be, and it allows me to get any squad I need some where as opposed to single squad.

 

I'm not saying transports are useless. Just redundant. I fully expect mechanized players have found ways to utilize their transports. Just from my experience I find they're not with it for my play style.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Altasmurf

[Halfpint100]

 

You can't hold ground with Artillery shells. You need something to transport those troops to grab objectives.

"Move, move, move". Like I say 14" to 24" gets the men there. I have no problem getting to where I need to be, and it allows me to get any squad I need some where as opposed to single squad.

 

I'm not saying transports are useless. Just redundant. I fully expect mechanized players have found ways to utilize their transports. Just from my experience I find they're not with it for my play style.

 

 

I use them to charge annoying things, or just be in the way. though i will admit, they are pricey. 109 points for a twin flamer chimera. for 1 more point, i can get a hellhound with that +1W and a 16" inferno cannon. 

 

Tomorrow instead of running 3 hellhounds and 3 flamer chimeras, i will be running 5 hellhounds (spare points from 6th is going to psykers). Let see what the difference will be and see if the "Move, Move, Move" order is enough!

[Guardsman Bob]

 

You can't hold ground with Artillery shells. You need something to transport those troops to grab objectives.

"Move, move, move". Like I say 14" to 24" gets the men there. I have no problem getting to where I need to be, and it allows me to get any squad I need some where as opposed to single squad.

I'm not saying transports are useless. Just redundant. I fully expect mechanized players have found ways to utilize their transports. Just from my experience I find they're not with it for my play style.

For Matched Play I have no problem calling them useless. God bless anyone who does make them work.

 

Narrative Play however you are dead-on about Mechanized forces finding use of them. Mainly for the Preliminary Barrage and Sustained Assault rules.

[Withershadow]

I find transports useful enough.  I use 2-3 chimeras loaded with Krieg Engineers and miscellaneous support models.  Including enough commanders to order every single model (remember you gotta order the commander too or he swiftly falls behind his protective screen) can be daunting.  A single conscript blob requires three orders to keep the whole "conscripts + commissars + commander" module together. 

[Tirak]

I find transports useful enough.  I use 2-3 chimeras loaded with Krieg Engineers and miscellaneous support models.  Including enough commanders to order every single model (remember you gotta order the commander too or he swiftly falls behind his protective screen) can be daunting.  A single conscript blob requires three orders to keep the whole "conscripts + commissars + commander" module together. 

 

You can't order commissars, they're not <Regiment>, they're Officio Perfectus

[Withershadow]

Death Korps Commissars are Death Korps, but fair enough. I'm surprised people aren't running into issues keeping them in range however.

[Altasmurf]

I myself don't use conscripts as I find basic infantry work just fine, and in fact I'm starting to use less commissars. I do d for the odd time I'm worried about morale I just spend 2 co and ignore it. Any game 1000 points or more and I run a brigade and always have enough cp.

 

However if you were using conscripts and commissars then yes you would have troy is keeping it all together some what. I feel I would just stretch the conscripts out so they still reach the commissars.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

In regards to Chimeras, the only real way to use them for regular guard is the Gryphonne pattern. Autocannon or twin HB on the turret for an extra 5 points max is pretty good. 

 

Other than that, DKoK is really the only other way that fielding chimeras seems viable.

 

I think that deep strike support or massed infantry is probably the way to support a mechanized advance.