Blood Angel Lore vs. Gameplay Identity

[Arkangilos]

It's Sanguinius, but it's an iconic image of him fighting the beast (I think). So I would look at it more like in universe wall paintings like what you would see from Michelangelo 

[TheHarrower]

It's Sanguinius, but it's an iconic image of him fighting the beast (I think). So I would look at it more like in universe wall paintings like what you would see from Michelangelo 

 

I dunno. Would an in universe painting have Storm Ravens and Primaris Marines?

[bushman101]

based on rules from previous editions, we are also a fast army. Not just in terms of movement (overcharged vehicles) but also in combat.

This generally gave us bonuses to Initiative (Furious charge, Quicken).

With Initiative gone, maybe we could chose the order of melee combat? Or maybe always get the charge bonus, even on turns we didn't charge?

 

Just ideas...

[tychobi]

reroll to wound in the fight phase + tsknf + ob sec troops + cool stratagems and relics.  Choppy.  Simple.  Elegant.  Powerful.  here's hopin!

[durdle-durdle]

What I'd expect is +1 s on the charge, and reroll failed charges. Death company continue to get +1 attack on the charge as well and possibly 6" consolidates on the normal marines as well as the dread. I'd also expect a stratagem that allows death co to attack multiple times, possibly any blood angel unit. I'd be so happy if I could pay extra points not to have a bs penalty when moving my vehicles (overcharged engines). I'd be even more happy with outflanking Baal predators.

 

And holy crap, make hand flamers and inferno pistols worth taking.

[Panzer]

based on rules from previous editions, we are also a fast army. Not just in terms of movement (overcharged vehicles) but also in combat.

This generally gave us bonuses to Initiative (Furious charge, Quicken).

With Initiative gone, maybe we could chose the order of melee combat? Or maybe always get the charge bonus, even on turns we didn't charge?

 

Just ideas...

Aka always strikes first like Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and some Eldar. :D

[Gulltramarine]

 

 

based on rules from previous editions, we are also a fast army. Not just in terms of movement (overcharged vehicles) but also in combat.

This generally gave us bonuses to Initiative (Furious charge, Quicken).

With Initiative gone, maybe we could chose the order of melee combat? Or maybe always get the charge bonus, even on turns we didn't charge?

 

Just ideas...

Aka always strikes first like Slaanesh Daemons, Emperor's Children and some Eldar. :D

 

That's what I reckon you will get, as well as overcharged engine stratagems

[Panzer]

I honestly wouldn't be too mad about always striking first. It's not an extremely strong trait but it's not terrible either. The real interesting stuff will come with the Stratagems anyway.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The other thing to remember is that so far GW seems to be keeping chapter tactics more generalised, with unit/weapon-specific stuff saved for Stratagems, to not penalise, for example, a White Scars infantry force. As such, anything we'd get like better deep-striking would be through Stratagems.

Personally, I can see us getting a modifier to Charge/Advance rolls, rather than what Slaaneshi stuff gets, and a modifier to Wound.

[swordofmandulis]

I agree with the always fight first in the fight phase, +1 to wound across the board is way too powerful with the way the mechanics work now for wounding double toughness.  

 

I could see +1 strength (maybe -1 AP as well) being a stratagem to be played at the beginning of the fight phase.

 

Death company definitely need something else too. activating twice in the fight phase would make total sense based on the fluff, Death Company need to be feared.

 

it pains me that Space puppies can have one of the most terrifying infantry units in the game but Death Company are so wet.

Edited August 24, 2017 by swordofmandulis

[Brother_Mike]

 

Not sure if anyone noticed, but it appears that Sanguinus is on the end papers in the 40K Rulebook. Someone posted this on Facebook recently and it reminded me of it. If the Great Angel rises from the ashes like a phoenix, he could definitely help boost us to new heights. The model would be pretty amazing too. Here's a pic.

 

 

Not to get all tinfoil hat on everyone, but has anyone ALSO noticed Forgeworld hasn't released a Sanguinus model yet, yet all the other, less popular, primarchs have been prioritized? This could be a business decision to let GW handle the more popular primarchs and Forgeworld release the others.

 

Back on topic though, I think if our Chapter Tactic was something along the lines of reduce the distance away from enemies your reserves come in by, that would do a lot for us. That opens up a whole new avenue of tactics for us that other armies wouldn't have a chance to do.

 

Other than that, perhaps a bonus similar to the Salamanders given how ornate and well-crafted Blood Angels gear happens to be.

 

+1 bonuses to hit/wound in close combat would work too, but not nearly as imaginative :P

[sockwithaticket]

 

Not to get all tinfoil hat on everyone, but has anyone ALSO noticed Forgeworld hasn't released a Sanguinus model yet, yet all the other, less popular, primarchs have been prioritized? This could be a business decision to let GW handle the more popular primarchs and Forgeworld release the others.

 

The Angelus book isn't out yet, hence no Sanguinius from FW. They will do every Primarch for 30k; some may end up with a 40k version too (Mortarion, Guilliman and Magnus being the double duty ones so far).

 

 

To reflect the BAs artisenal bent, the option to purchase master crafted on weapons for Veteran Sergeants and above would be cool.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by sockwithaticket

[Indefragable]

Food for thought would be what should the other big 2 "separate" SM chapters get. As a positive, helping to hone in what sure others more than us can help clarify things. As a negative, it means potentially leaving us with what's left at the bottom of the barrel or giving us wonky things just to be different (somewhat how I feel about our special pistols).

 

Page 3 of this thread in the SW forums, for example:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336810-space-wolves-chapter-tactics/page-3

 

What I found most interesting about the SW discussions is that a lot of their players yearn for some sort of Outflank ability as their native Chapter Tactics. Some think we are more choppy than they are, which though I personally agree with, don't think the crunch always matches up.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

IMO that is totally Sanguinius.  I believe he is definately going to climb out of his coffin some awesome day.

An Avenging Vampire Angel seems an obvious character to get undead is all I am saying.

But we can talk on that elsewhere.

 

I think Blood Angels should have a speed and manuever advantage.

Red ones go faster. =)

 

I definately want to see Lucifer Engines for our vehicles given good rules. - Bring back the Rhino/Raider Rush!!

I definately want to see Descending Angels given rules. -Prolly Strategems

 

Red Thirst should be for everyone of the blood obviously and should be good.

Bonus to wound is fine, as are many of the fine suggestions made here and elsewhere. There are many ways to give us character for sure.

 

Black Rage can be left as is (5+ FNP would be nice again since FNP has been nerfed I suppose).

 

I will live with whatever they do as long as it is reasonably good. 

I want obvious flavor and uses for our existing BA toys most of all. (We have plenty, they just mostly don't work well at all)

 

I really hope items are costed fairly and effective on the table.

 

I want the Baal Pred to be fearsome and an obvious predator pick.

I want the Dreads to be fairly costed.

Sanguinary Guard should be an amazing unit not an almost decent slightly overcosted one.

Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols are in the kits but they are useless and also way overcosted with what we know currrently...

I think our extra access to Heavy Flamers and special assault teams is great and should be left in.

 

Some obvious thought needs to have been put into making our unique items workable via traits / strategems / characters / items etc.

 

Anyhow,

Give us some speed advantages and many things start clicking together. So I would like to see our blitz being the way to set us apart and get our cool stuff over there.

[Panzer]

Honestly, if GW tries to copy the old SW rules then they should get the always strike first ability. It's basically an infinite counter-attack Stratagem which would come thematically closest to their counter-attack rule they used to have.

But I don't think GW will do that. Really looking forward to the BA and SW Codex.

[TheHarrower]

Honestly, if GW tries to copy the old SW rules then they should get the always strike first ability. It's basically an infinite counter-attack Stratagem which would come thematically closest to their counter-attack rule they used to have.

But I don't think GW will do that. Really looking forward to the BA and SW Codex.

 

Bah. The dogs annoy me. Always stealing our thunder. Dedicated flyer, close combat dreadnought that works, awesome melee unit, etc.

[Panzer]

 

Honestly, if GW tries to copy the old SW rules then they should get the always strike first ability. It's basically an infinite counter-attack Stratagem which would come thematically closest to their counter-attack rule they used to have.

But I don't think GW will do that. Really looking forward to the BA and SW Codex.

 

Bah. The dogs annoy me. Always stealing our thunder. Dedicated flyer, close combat dreadnought that works, awesome melee unit, etc.

 

Yeah but they, as silly as they are, replaced angels with dogs. :D

[Djangomatic82]

Has anyone considered what our Warlord Traits may be? Have the codex chapters been simple updates of previous editions versions to 8th edition functionality? 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Djangomatic82

[tychobi]

Has anyone considered what our Warlord Traits may be? Have the codex chapters been simple updates of previous editions versions to 8th edition functionality? 

No.  New rules for new edition.  Flavor is still there but it would be wrong to call them just updates.  Some might function similarly but mostly all new.  

 

I would not expect any huge amazing warlord traits as they are free.  Some of the new codex ones are pretty awesome but just improvements on the generic warlord traits.  For instance the 6+ ignore wounds comes with an extra wound as well.  Some are pretty bad.  Vulkan just gets +1 strength.. . . 

 

For us?  I can see an always strikes first trait, black rage trait making a warlord get extra attack on charge and 6+ignore wounds, angel wings  move d3 after deep strike, red thirst heals you for a wound on a 4+ if you kill an infantry model (flesh tearers only?), sanguine strategy get d3 command points before game, death shroud reroll failed saves, that last one is too good with a storm shield.  I dunno lots of ways to go, I hope we get some fun ones!

[Djangomatic82]

 

Has anyone considered what our Warlord Traits may be? Have the codex chapters been simple updates of previous editions versions to 8th edition functionality? 

No.  New rules for new edition.  Flavor is still there but it would be wrong to call them just updates.  Some might function similarly but mostly all new.  

 

I would not expect any huge amazing warlord traits as they are free.  Some of the new codex ones are pretty awesome but just improvements on the generic warlord traits.  For instance the 6+ ignore wounds comes with an extra wound as well.  Some are pretty bad.  Vulkan just gets +1 strength.. . . 

 

For us?  I can see an always strikes first trait, black rage trait making a warlord get extra attack on charge and 6+ignore wounds, angel wings  move d3 after deep strike, red thirst heals you for a wound on a 4+ if you kill an infantry model (flesh tearers only?), sanguine strategy get d3 command points before game, death shroud reroll failed saves, that last one is too good with a storm shield.  I dunno lots of ways to go, I hope we get some fun ones!

 

Ahhh, cool cool. Thanks for the input. Hopefully we get a Chapter trait as good as the Utra Marines one. Refunding CP gives such a longevity advantage and considering the cost of our units, CP looks to be scarce. Maybe something to reward aggressive play on our part, like "when a BLOOD ANGELS unit destroys an enemy unit, generate d3 CP." Prob too good, but one can dream.

[bushman101]

Random thought.

 

There is the rumor that Primaris Marines will replace regular marines.

IF (and a big IF at that) this is true and BA primaris have had the Thrist and Rage removed (according to fluff), what is it that BA does that is different?

Basically, what are the BA without the Thirst and Rage?

[Panzer]

Random thought.

 

There is the rumor that Primaris Marines will replace regular marines.

IF (and a big IF at that) this is true and BA primaris have had the Thrist and Rage removed (according to fluff), what is it that BA does that is different?

Basically, what are the BA without the Thirst and Rage?

Well more of a speculation than rumour, really. Codex: Space Marines is out and nothing got replaced.

 

In fluff Guilliman apparently said that Space Marines did well but Primaris are the future. Slowly over years replacing regular Space Marines with the more modern Primaris would make sense for GW but we are most likely talking about something like 10 years from now.

 

What makes BA different except for the double curse? Well a lot of things in the fluff but on the table they would probably still maintain their fast and close&personal style of warfare since they are the shock&awe Legion Chapter after all and that has nothing to do with the thirst or with the rage.

 

The thirst just makes BA less reliable on the battlefield at times when they can't control their thirst so Devastator and similar duty is less favorable (doesn't mean there aren't BA Devastators tho). Which fortuntely just supports the Angels way to fight (get close real quick and strike hard).

The rage is an unfortunate and not calculable event that basically removes the one suffering from it from any meaningful tactical decisions except for "Point him towards a direction and hope he kills some enemies before he dies....or kill him right here and now". I mean the rage too works kinda well with the way the Angels fight.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the thirst and the rage work well with the way Blood Angels use to fight, it's not really the cause for them to fight like that so there wouldn't change much by removing it from the equation except that they'd lose quite a bit of flavour. Not to mention that the red thirst and stuff with blood is part of a LOT 'daily' Blood Angel rituals and their life even outside of combat.

[Blindhamster]

The thirst specifically isnt cured for primaris. Presumably the black rage isn't either. Gene seed were stabilised and any broken organs work again but cawl very specifically didn't remove traits the emperor put in, which includes the thirst and the canis helix

 

However the effects of the thirst have probably been reset and the failure rate for making primaris is negligible compared to the rather high failure rate for regular astartes.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, they would still favor fast flying armies because they have the desire to fly from their geneseed

[brother_b]

I've been thinking a lot about the whole move to primaris. Personally, I don't like the idea or the fluff. I think the models are nice but prefer my old school marines, especially as the BA kits are soooo nice. 

 

I think GW cares not about removing the identity of the BA. I think they just want to move all SM armies towards primaris-sized models. I have yet to use BA in 8th edition and plan to make that my next game. I've restarted the army and have been slowly painting. I hope to get a WIP post going soon enough.