RG Vanguard Veteran armourment in 8th

[duz_]

*BP!

 

Bolt pistol. ;)

 

My bad I must have got confused with what I have to deal with at work! :D

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

More interesting food for thought!

 

I agree with Pentharian that the "best" loadout can only be weighed against a certain purpose or target unit – the problem is that we rarely know exactly what we'll be facing or what circumstances our units will find themselves in. That's why it's so tricky trying to decide with units as versatile as Vets (and why these threads come up so often )

 

I guess that's why I was originally leaning towards sword & shied – it seemed like the good 'all rounder' choice.

 

 

Loadout can be mixed within units of course, which complicates things even further!

 

Maybe magnets really are the way to go!

My objection was not based on whether or not VVs have a best loadup vs certain targets.  They clearly do.  What I didnt quite agree on was using them for certain roles in the first place.  VVs with claws are very good against most inf because of their cost/effectivness ratio.  THSS vanguard are not because the cost goes up too much relative to their survivability and effectivness.  Lascannon devs or tacs do it better as do preds/flyers, dreads.  

[Mileposter]

Once again, I am required to agree with SanguinaryGuardsman - while I have mentioned that I am a proponent of the Storm Shield on my Vets, I would never recommend the Thunder Hammer with them (though I did say it was possible). As was said, they're far too expensive at that point to lose as fast as you will, and that -1 comes into play far more than you think (especially since modifiers come into play after reroll opportunities!).

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Once again, I am required to agree with SanguinaryGuardsman - while I have mentioned that I am a proponent of the Storm Shield on my Vets, I would never recommend the Thunder Hammer with them (though I did say it was possible). As was said, they're far too expensive at that point to lose as fast as you will, and that -1 comes into play far more than you think (especially since modifiers come into play after reroll opportunities!).

https://youtu.be/wxrbOVeRonQ?t=188

[Alcyon]

I hadn't considered the price per points aspect so much. A bit OT but if I'm not going to run VVs with TH anymore, and since Shrike's re-roll is arguably not as good as using 1 CP to re-roll a single die of a charge roll, I'm feeling a strong push towards Raptors.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I hadn't considered the price per points aspect so much. A bit OT but if I'm not going to run VVs with TH anymore, and since Shrike's re-roll is arguably not as good as using 1 CP to re-roll a single die of a charge roll, I'm feeling a strong push towards Raptors.

 

I see this referenced a lot, and I have seen it countless times on Batreps (Miniwargaming and Tabletop Tactics both do it I think). I was under the impression from the newest FAQ that this errata would disallow this:

 

ERRATA Page 178 – Re-rolls Change this paragraph to read: ‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.

 

Since a charge roll is 2D6, this to me says that if you burn a CP to reroll your charge, you have to reroll both dice, not just one (the lower of course) of your choosing.

 

Am I misunderstanding this, or is everyone else?

 

Maybe I should make a new thread for this elsewhere, I don't want to derail the OP.

Edited August 30, 2017 by ltvyper

[duz_]

/OT

 

Keywords "unless otherwise stated"

 

The Stratagem states you can re-rolls one dice

[Brother_Gneecapper]

This sort of problem is why I have been enjoying power level games more recently than points. Points is definitely the way to go for a more finite balance in the game system but I do enjoy how fast it is to build a power level list. Just slap together a list of your favorite units, load out doesn't matter and go.

 

The flexibility of just paying for the units and not the upgrades is great, I can make like 2 or 3 general lists and then kit out my squad members based on the individual games needs.

 

It appears they are fine tuning their balance around the actual points system though so that will make for more competitive games. After seeing all the boring copy paste tournament lists out there, I don't really have a desire to play competitively at this time so PP works for me right now.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Brother_Gneecapper

[White Hunter]

This sort of problem is why I have been enjoying power level games more recently than points. Points is definitely the way to go for a more finite balance in the game system but I do enjoy how fast it is to build a power level list. Just slap together a list of your favorite units, load out doesn't matter and go.

 

The flexibility of just paying for the units and not the upgrades is great, I can make like 2 or 3 general lists and then kit out my squad members based on the individual games needs.

 

It appears they are fine tuning their balance around the actual points system though so that will make for more competitive games. After seeing all the boring copy paste tournament lists out there, I don't really have a desire to play competitively at this time so PP works for me right now.

I agree, however I have witnessed the massive balance issues it can cause for a pickup game. Vanguard are actually a pretty good example of this. A unit of vanguard with Chainswords and Bolt Pistols is technically the same power level as one Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields, however one of those squads is better in almost every way. (This is less an issue if WYSIWYG is not a big rule in your area.)

[Race Bannon]

I think the point of PP is exactly for the pick-up game: unplanned, throw together and have "fun" kinda game.  So, although the CS/BP Vanguard Squad is patently not as powerful per dude as the TH/SS Vanguard Squad, in a pick-up game, the point is to play the game. 

[Mileposter]

It's also worth noting the extreme flexibility of a PP game. Yes, TH/SS Vets are not as powerful - but, in a PP game, both sides can go "Oh, you're running BP/CS? Well then, let's be fair, so am I."