Alcyon Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 After some theorycrafting and reading your guys' comments, I've decided to move away from running Vanguard Veterans as it sounds like TH+SS models may be too pricey and unreliable for what they do, and in general I think shooty list are stronger this edition. Accordingly I've been looking at playing Raptors as given the top ITC lists we've seen recently, I think the flexibility of being able to arrive from reserves any turn is very strong, especially being able to save CP on SftS. SftS also has a weakness that models deployed with it need to be on the board turn 1, making them vulnerable to enemy alpha strikes even if put in cover. Focusing on Lias' ability means I also avoid Primaris, a bit sad frankly but it does open up a bunch of other options. The core of the list is this: ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [24 PL, 636pts] ++ + HQ + Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts] + Elites + Company Veterans [8 PL, 147pts] Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma Company Veterans [8 PL, 147pts] Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma Company Veterans [8 PL, 147pts] Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma Following that, I can either run this Outrider detachment: ++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [23 PL, 861pts] ++ + HQ + Captain on Bike [6 PL, 124pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Thunder hammer, Twin boltgun + Elites + Company Ancient on Bike [5 PL, 92pts]: Power sword, Standard of the Emperor Ascendant (I *think* this is legal on this model) + Fast Attack + Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 75pts] 2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 75pts] 2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 75pts] 2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun Scout Biker Sergeant: Chainsword, Twin boltgun + Flyer + Xiphon Interceptor [11 PL, 210pts]: 2x Twin lascannon, Xiphon missile battery Xiphon Interceptor [11 PL, 210pts]: 2x Twin lascannon, Xiphon missile battery Or, this Battalion, with the Captain hanging out in the back with the Tarantulas re-rolling 1s. ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [41 PL, 859pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun Techmarine on Bike [6 PL, 84pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Servo-arm, Twin boltgun + Troops + Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts] 3x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter Tactical Squad [5 PL, 78pts] 3x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts] 4x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword + Dedicated Transport + Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon + Fast Attack + Tarantula Sentry Gun [3 PL, 60pts] Tarantula Sentry Gun: Twin lascannon Tarantula Sentry Gun [3 PL, 60pts] Tarantula Sentry Gun: Twin lascannon Tarantula Sentry Gun [3 PL, 60pts] Tarantula Sentry Gun: Twin lascannon What do you think? The former gives me 64 S4 bolter shots (approx. 3 Aggressors standing still) with 8 Lascannons and 6 S6 AP2 D3 missiles for A/T, plus that really awesome Relic standard, while the latter gives me 36 S6 AP1 shots plus 17 S4 bolter shots, and 6 Lascannons for A/T, plus whatever special weapons I can cram on the Tacticals. Both setups have pretty tough mobile objective grabbers plus a lot of anti-infantry firepower. I don't love the Techmarine in there or the Captain on a bike in the first list, those are mostly taxes I feel — could maybe avoid them by merging the Vanguard detachment into one of the others. And I also haven't considered putting Storm Shields on any of the Veterans, that might be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Hrmm interesting, definitely a shooty list!I like it and would be curious to see how it goes You might struggle with multiple heavy tanks / super heavies, but I think its a good take all comers list Good mobility and enough fire power to deal with various infantry (inc hordes) and medium to light vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Thanks! Yeah, that is a concern - I think the Xiphons would be an asset with the 8 Lascannons and dmg 3 Missiles, and I could rejigger the Razorback list to cram in more Tarantulas. It's based on Brandon Grant's list from the BAO and the tons of Scions with Plasmaguns lists we've been seeing lately. Space Marines are always going to have more trouble fitting in things like powerful indirect fire (5 Earthshakers) and hordes (Conscript spam) but maybe there's an Imperial soup list that could provide both. We do have among the best vehicles for Plasma Guns with lists like this though they are comparatively a lot more expensive per model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I just realised its 1500pts so it's unlikely you'll see more than 2 IKs (although 2 plus Guilliman is a possibility) I think for the point level you should actually be in better shape than I originally thought Let us know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Alcyon, you are inspiring (influencing?) me to own a Xiphon. I mean, it's a bargain and a half at those points! I may never actually use one, but at least I'll have it. Argh, the collector in me is shaking a defiant fist at you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Ha, I've in turn been influenced by I think noxnoctis or someone about it, can't remember — it does just seem better than a Predator with supersonic and the extra D3 missile. And it looks hella cool. @duz would love to hear suggestions of how you'd expand it with those 500pts to better address things like IKs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Now I'm on the fence again - doing the math it looks like VVs with 2xPlasma Pistol are very close to the same price as the Company Veterans (and still way cheaper than Plasma Inceptors.) They lose the chainswords but gain a lot of mobility (ability to shoot after falling back) and the option to deep strike without Lias, which makes the army design as a whole a lot more flexible. Back to the drawing board a bit - I love list building! Noxnoctis22 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrieker Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 just a question, why the 3 scout squads rather than 1 combat squaded into three? there's a little bit more dakka in the latter? only asking because i have a 10th co gathering dust and interested in your take on scout bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 It fills the Outrider detachment for the extra CP? Shrieker 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrieker Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 gah, that solves it - had missed the header and thought it was part of the vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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