New Codex Incoming!

[HenricusTyranicus]

So I just wanted to clarify (sorry if it was said i missed it),

 

Regimental doctrines apply to their specific regiment, however, from what i see in youtube the 2nd paragraph says

 

"if your chosen regiment does not have an associated regimental doctrine, you may pick the doctrine that you feel best represents your army"

 

DKoK and Elysians dont have a doctrine as of right now, so can they effectively pick any doctrine they feel like?

 

Just thinking DKoK steel legion doctrine for hotshot lasgun grenadier on chimera action lol.

 

 

[Mitchverr]

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid that doesn't work as far as I'm aware. DKOK replace the regiment keyword with DKOK and therefore gain their doctrine.

 

Unless doctrine is under a different things....

 

 

They dont have a doctrine currently, they have a special rule currently which they pay for with points cost increase and limitation of what units they can select.

 

Doctrine "seems" to be under a different thing to the keyword regiment part, only those with "currently existing doctrines" are forced to use the specific 1 (ie the named 8, cadian, catachan etc), outside of those 8 is what I "quoted" and it seemed that it would apply to the FW armies as they dont currently have a doctrine.

 

as for the no, why exactly is it a no? They dont get the order though ofcourse, just the doctrine.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Zectz]

Frontline Gaming has a codex review up now. Goes over all the strategems & regiment specific stuff we haven't seen yet.

 

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/09/30/codex-review-astra-militarum/

[Tyr13]

Pretty sure its a no. Its a different army list with its own special rules, with no real connection to the IG codex. Giving DKoK access to doctrines would be like giving SM access to doctrines.

[our_baz]

So I just wanted to clarify (sorry if it was said i missed it),

 

Regimental doctrines apply to their specific regiment, however, from what i see in youtube the 2nd paragraph says

 

"if your chosen regiment does not have an associated regimental doctrine, you may pick the doctrine that you feel best represents your army"

 

DKoK and Elysians dont have a doctrine as of right now, so can they effectively pick any doctrine they feel like?

 

Just thinking DKoK steel legion doctrine for hotshot lasgun grenadier on chimera action lol.

The DKoK and Elysians have very unique units with in built special rules (Dcoctrines per se) which separate them from the standard codex units. Their <regiment> Faction keyword is already filled in with DKoK and Elysian, so you can't at another regiment on top of this.

 

The wording "if your chosen regiment does not have an associated regimental doctrine, you may pick the doctrine that you feel best represents your army" allows you to give some flavour to your own regiment, which you built using the basic codex. I.e. The 144th Cornish pasty mounted division doesn't have a doctrine, but you can use say the Steel Legion doctrine as it best fits your fluff.

 

Hope that helps

[Mitchverr]

Pretty sure its a no. Its a different army list with its own special rules, with no real connection to the IG codex. Giving DKoK access to doctrines would be like giving SM access to doctrines.

 

Not really, the DKoK and Elysians are astra militarum regiments using the astra militarum keyword with a preset regiment, it would be like claiming a named character isnt guard or tempestus are not guard, both of which have their regiment keyword replaced and fixed over space marines which are a completely different army fluff and rules wise, unlike elysians and DKoK which fluff and rules wise are pretty much the same as the guard book.

 

Would you also say they cant use the stratagems? As the stratagems say "astra militarum x, y or z"?

 

The DKoK and Elysians have very unique units with in built special rules (Dcoctrines per se) which separate them from the standard codex units. Their <regiment> Faction keyword is already filled in with DKoK and Elysian, so you can't at another regiment on top of this.

 

The wording "if your chosen regiment does not have an associated regimental doctrine, you may pick the doctrine that you feel best represents your army" allows you to give some flavour to your own regiment, which you built using the basic codex. I.e. The 144th Cornish pasty mounted division doesn't have a doctrine, but you can use say the Steel Legion doctrine as it best fits your fluff.

 

Hope that helps

 

 

Not adding another regiment to it btw, its specific to the doctrines page which is actually different to the page about picking a regiment keyword Regiment keyword is for specific stratagems/orders/warlord trait etc though.

 

They also dont really have their own doctrines per se imo, given they pay extra points for the special rules they have, unlike how doctrines apply outside of that, but hopefully there will be an errata on the subject.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Mitchverr

[our_baz]

@Mitchverr, to put it another way to be able to use a specific doctrine all units in your detachment need the open ended <regiment > faction keyword. As neither DKoK or Elysians units have this open ended faction keyword, you wouldn't be able to stack them with Steel Legion doctrines for example.

For the same reason (wrong forum for this, mods can discipline me later) you can't give Grey Knights Salamander Chapter tactics.

Edited September 30, 2017 by our_baz

[librisrouge]

How're DKoK and Elysians different from Militarum Tempestus, that both already have their regiment filled in. While I don't intend to do it, and it's clearly an overlooked problem spawned from the fact that GW doesn't care about FW, DKoK and Elysians should be allowed to pick one.

 

Here's to hoping for an FAQ ASAP.

[morroccomole]

As our_baz said, I believe that blurb was included to allow for the people (like me) who don't have the monopose pewter minis from 15 years ago to use all the available rules. I have a Cadian-looking force, but I'll be trying out all the various regimental doctrines in time. DKoK and Elysians already have baked-in regimental doctrines, as I understand it. If you want to use your DKoK or Elysian models as <regiment>  go for it, but you shouldn't be allowed to stack.

Edited September 30, 2017 by morroccomole

[CaptainMarsh]

How much more expensive is Plasma?

[Chris521]

I would just like to point out a little tidbit.  If you want your Baneblades to have regimental doctrines.  They cant be in a "Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment".

[Tyr13]

Care to elaborate? Why wouldn't they count?

[Sword_Brother]

I saw a blurry picture of the points values, and I noticed there is an "other" section for wargear with Track Guards listed. Those have not been a thing for quite some time as I recall, anybody have any ideas as to what they may be for? 

[mertbl]

Mini wargaming said something about maintaining full movement through degradation.

[Chris521]

Care to elaborate? Why wouldn't they count?

In the regiment rules

"If your army is Bttle-forges, all <Regiment> units * excluding those in Super Heavy auxillary detachments) gain a regimental doctrine,..."

[narcolepticltd]

So I just wanted to clarify (sorry if it was said i missed it),

 

Regimental doctrines apply to their specific regiment, however, from what i see in youtube the 2nd paragraph says

 

"if your chosen regiment does not have an associated regimental doctrine, you may pick the doctrine that you feel best represents your army"

 

DKoK and Elysians dont have a doctrine as of right now, so can they effectively pick any doctrine they feel like?

 

Just thinking DKoK steel legion doctrine for hotshot lasgun grenadier on chimera action lol.

 

You definitely can't do this unless you're playing your own narrative and your opponent agrees to it. 

 

DKoK and Elysians (and chaos heretics, etc) have special rules and their own wargear and units, and those special rules coincide with their current regiment keyword. Units in the FW indexes that aren't specifically part of those army lists can be used universally and still have the <regiment> keyword open, and the ones that are useable by DKoK and Elysians (etc) are specifically listed (and their regiment key word becomes <DKoK> or <Elysian Drop Troops> etc)... in some cases referring to units in the standard indexes. 

 

I think you just might be hung up on the use of the word 'doctrines' instead of special rules - they're essentially the same thing - rules that apply specifically to an army list. The difference being that the codex unit data sheets are all the same, with your choice of a set of special rules/strategems/doctrines, and the FW army lists like DKoK and Elysians are like mini codexes unto themselves with their 'doctrines' already picked, their points costs already allocated, and hence their regiment keyword already filled in accordingly. 

 

If you wanted to run DKoK models and use steel legion special rules etc you can certainly do that by changing the regimental keyword to steel legion - but by doing so you're using the army list, units, and wargear from Codex: Astra Militarum and giving up DKoK special rules, and are basically playing 'counts as steel legion'.

 

To use your own example, a unit of DKoK Grenadiers wouldn't be able to even sit in a <steel legion> army list detachment with hotshot lasguns, they'd have to count as regular lasguns and run them as vets or something... better yet, play them as scions...

 

You can't stack both... you can only have one regiment keyword per unit, and that regiment has to align with the army list it's printed with - as far as strategems and points adjustments go, the forgeworld lists will not be affected by any of them until a FAQ comes out and addresses it specifically. 

[narcolepticltd]

 

Care to elaborate? Why wouldn't they count?

In the regiment rules

"If your army is Bttle-forges, all <Regiment> units * excluding those in Super Heavy auxillary detachments) gain a regimental doctrine,..."

 

 

So if you want outflanking tallarn super-heavies, go big or go home with 3-5 in a Super Heavy Detachment (non-auxillary), right? 

[Chris521]

 

 

Care to elaborate? Why wouldn't they count?

In the regiment rules

"If your army is Bttle-forges, all <Regiment> units * excluding those in Super Heavy auxillary detachments) gain a regimental doctrine,..."

 

 

So if you want outflanking tallarn super-heavies, go big or go home with 3-5 in a Super Heavy Detachment (non-auxillary), right? 

 

You should be about to take them with the supreme command detachment to get the doctrine, so not a big deal.  I'm sure everyone here can use the extra company commanders.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Chris521

[Guardsman Bob]

 

 

 

Care to elaborate? Why wouldn't they count?

 

In the regiment rules

"If your army is Bttle-forges, all <Regiment> units * excluding those in Super Heavy auxillary detachments) gain a regimental doctrine,..."

 

So if you want outflanking tallarn super-heavies, go big or go home with 3-5 in a Super Heavy Detachment (non-auxillary), right?

You should be about to take them with the supreme command detachment to get the doctrine, so not a big deal.  I'm sure everyone here can use the extra company commanders.

Dang right!

 

I think I’m going to like that detachment those extra Tank Commanders. At larger point totals it’s going to be all about packing in more vehicles. Setting up and playing seventy or so metal Infantry is already taxing on so many levels.

[HenricusTyranicus]

You know, I think the Cadian Warlord trait could be exceptionally good for making Conscripts still great. Park your conscript squad in front of two infantry squads. Order an infantry squad to FRFSRF. On a 4+, the conscripts are affected too. No go? Repeat with the other infantry squad. Chuck in those laurels of command for extra fun.

[Chris521]

Has anyone seen what the rules are for dozer blades? I know they got added back in.

 

Same for track guards.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Chris521

[seriade]

How're DKoK and Elysians different from Militarum Tempestus, that both already have their regiment filled in. While I don't intend to do it, and it's clearly an overlooked problem spawned from the fact that GW doesn't care about FW, DKoK and Elysians should be allowed to pick one.

 

Here's to hoping for an FAQ ASAP.

The blood angels, dark angles, and space wolves all do not have chapter tactics.

 

The reason is simple they are not covered by the current marine codex.

 

If you want your DkoK to have a regimental tactic you need to buy them from the new book using a counts as and not their current forge world index there is no need for a faq or ruling on the matter.

 

But just to add insult to injury if gw do not faq the weapons in the forge world codex DkoK will have some equipment that is worse then standard guard as they pull the equipment from there index compared to the codex the rest of guard is using.

[narcolepticltd]

Has anyone seen what the rules are for dozer blades? I know they got added back in.

 

Same for track guards.

 

funny that they'd do that and now the tank accessory sprue is the only place you can get the track guards other than a basilisk kit... I forsee a lot more scratch built track guards and dozer blades in this edition if the rules warrant adding them to everything. 

[Chris521]

I was looking at the rules for Pask and tank commanders and discovered something that I'm not sure if I should be happy or disturbed about.

 

 In the index, the knight commander rule has the sentence "Note that knight commander Pask can issue orders to other Cadian Leman Russ Characters"  This sentence has been removed in the index.

 

The tank commander index has "(though the unit you pick cannot be a character)" when describing the tank order rule.  This has also been removed.

 

At first, I just saw the Pask change, which doesn't seem to change the RAW, but could point to a change in RAI for a future FAQ.

 

Then I checked the tank commander and saw the character part missing.  Unless there is another section of the codex that forbid the orders to characters, It seems like everyone can order each other, including another one ordering Pask.

 

I honestly have no idea what the intent is here, but the cynic in me doesn't want to get too excited here.

 

Thoughts? any relevant rules that I haven't seen?

[Malakithe]

What all has changed for super heavies? I know there is something like a 40pts cost reduction in the base baneblade models but anything else leaked? Any other weapon previews/changes besides the 3d6 baneblade cannon?

 

I was looking at the stormhammer in a supreme command but now im considering the generic baneblade..just not a fan of the demolisher cannon. Though since here is no penalty for moving now it could be easier to use the demolisher