New Codex Incoming!

[CaptainMarsh]

Anyone knows about points/power increaes?

I know that Plasma Guns went up for BS3+ models and Taurox Prime went up. Basilisk, Hydra, Leman Russ, and Manticore I believe saw double digit reductions.

 

 

Tempestus Review-

 

Doctrine: D. This is weak. We aren't a faction with great range, with our main weapons being 24''(HSVG, PG), 18'' (HSLG), and Melta at 12''. We have to get within half range in order to get the possibility of an additional shot on a 6+. So we have to be in 'win or die' range, have a 5/6 chance even then of not procking it. And even if we do get it to go off, we can still miss. This is almost an F.

Order: C/B. This has a narrow range of uses but within that narrow range band it could be really useful. Melta Squad in particular are very favorable.

Stratagem: C. This is a decent Strat but it requires your enemy to drop in to prock it and you do so with a reduced BS. It has its uses, but limited.

Relic: A/B. One of my favorite relics. Not my absolute favorite but an additional order on a 2+, combined with the right trait and command rod, gives him 4 orders a turn! MT need orders, especially now, to work.

Trait: B. I like this trait because it gives them the ability to counter something they normally an't counter, adding a layer of possibility to them.

 

The Doctrine is so weak while the Order and Strat fair, but limited, to the extent that MT definitely took it in the pants more than base guard. Combined with changes to Plasma points and Taurox points, I think they are comparatively the losers of the codex.

Edited October 2, 2017 by CaptainMarsh

[Beams]

My thoughts is that Scions we're already awesome, so they couldn't afford to get a major bonus without a points increase, what they got is good, and helps them without breaking them.

[CaptainMarsh]

My thoughts is that Scions we're already awesome, so they couldn't afford to get a major bonus without a points increase, what they got is good, and helps them without breaking them.

What they got is, on the whole, mediocre. Considering the points cost to an essential weapon (Plasma Gun), and Taurox Prime, I'd argue the Tempestus didn't get better or worse in this book. The Doctrine is a fart in the wind. Scions are awesome but they lack an essential strength of Guard (survival due to mass and heavy armor) and what they get in return isn't all that great.

 

I also see the 'Scions are awesome' used to justify their shoulder-shrugging ruleset which seems to forget that Guard are super powerful already as a faction, which have regiments who have Dotrines and rulesets that make the Tempestus look weak by a great amount. 2k Tallarn will break 2k Tempestus like they were made of Doritos.

 

 

If the Doctrine either granted a 6+ extra shot at full range or guaranteed an extra shot at half range it would be much better.

Edited October 2, 2017 by CaptainMarsh

[zero88]

Does anyone know if the venerable multilaser was changed at all?

[Malakithe]

2k Tallarn will break 2k Tempestus like they were made of Doritos

 

What kind of Doritos are we talking about here? I see scions as the spicy Doritos and those can hold their weight again other less elite chips

Edited October 3, 2017 by Malakithe

[CoffeeGrunt]

I think the Scion Doctrine basically negates them using it on the drop. The HS Lasgun won't be close enough for it, nor the Meltagun and it does nothing for the Flamer. The HS Volleygun can't use it on the drop without a source of +1 to Hit as it's -1 to Hit due to moving and so can't roll a 6.

 

So on the drop it works for the Grenade Launcher, or the Plasma Gun. I think the Plasma Gun is what they had in mind most when writing the rule tbh.

[Halfpint100]

My scions were always a cheap, suicidal special weapon drop to make my opponent shoot in several directions and close the net. I dont expect them to survive and they haven't gained a huge points increase. I think it is a fair one for the plasma guns, considering the firepower a squad can unleash

[Solar_Pattern]

Still have no clue what'd be the best regiment to use to support my Krieg assault brigade (grenadiers in centaurs backed up by engineers and basilisk)

[OnboardG1]

Still have no clue what'd be the best regiment to use to support my Krieg assault brigade (grenadiers in centaurs backed up by engineers and basilisk)

 

Something with an enormous gun. Catachan doctrine Demolishers for that AVRE feel?

[Chris521]

While the plasma increase was good for Scions, I feel like veterans kind of got caught in the cross fire here.  They were already being put in my lists simply because they were my better models.

 

I think I might give snipers a go. I'm the middle of some mild conversions  for them anyway.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Chris521

[Halfpint100]

While the plasma increase was good for Scions, I feel like veterans kind of got caught in the cross fire here.  They were already being put in my lists simply because they were my better models.

 

I think I might give snipers a go. I'm the middle of some mild conversions  for them anyway.

 

I know what you mean. Vets just are not economical for an elite slot. It is a shame. I love the idea of vets and have a couple of converted squads and havent used them in 8th due to their cost

[Feral_80]

Vets might not be optimal per se, but since they are part of a <regiment> they offer more buff potential than Scions.

 

Think e.g. to melta/plasma Vets firing with the support of a Sabre searchlight: they will hit on 2+, possibly rerolling 1s with an officer. Choose the right <regiment> and they will get additional buffs (Vostroyans, Steel Legion; Mordian, for the character sniping order; not Cadian, their doctrine is great but requires static squads).

 

Surely a similar, but less powerful result can be achieved with buffed special weapons squads. But I still consider Vets an option. They will need some support (and a transport), but they can be brutal. I would never use them as line infantry, but that's not their role anyway.

[WarriorFish]

I'll still use my Vets, they offer something a bit different but as mentioned it's mostly having some grizzled Guardsmen as they can have a lot of character and fit the Regimental theme more.

[Beams]

So, Steel Legion Vets with a searchlight:

 

CP to jump out of a transport, reroll ones.

 

Add the searchlight, so they are hitting on two's.

 

Order to reroll ones to wound/or firstrabk second rank.

 

Next turn, if still alive, order to shoot and jump back in the transport.

[Vel'Cona]

My scions were always a cheap, suicidal special weapon drop to make my opponent shoot in several directions and close the net. I dont expect them to survive and they haven't gained a huge points increase. I think it is a fair one for the plasma guns, considering the firepower a squad can unleash

 

See, that was my thought.  If you're just running a cheap Battalion of Tempestus Scions you can take 3 squads with double PG for a reasonably budget cost, drop them in on a prime target and Supercharge with a 60-70% chance for a free shot (per unit).  Splash in a Tempestor Prime w/ Boss Stick and give 2 of the units Take Aim! for best results.  If you use cover intelligently, this may not even be a suicide tactic, especially if you nullify the primary threat out of the gate!  Another bonus is under the new rules, those same TS would be "ObjSec", so you could even hold them back (as long as allowed by the rules) to snag objectives late-game.  :)

[NatBrannigan]

I'm making some more Veterans at the moment (got the parts, just needed more Kilt legs) and giving them three plasma guns.

 

Since I'll be using the Mordian rules I'm thinking they'll be pretty Brutal supporting my Line Infantry (running just behind them and blowing away characters with the Order). Probably stick em in a Taurox.

 

Hugely excited by all I've seen here and can't wait to get stuck in. I just need to cut the Rough Rider page out of the Index and put it in the Codex and I'm set!

 

My Lads will have a real Napoleonic feel to them now with my Infantry in Ranks of 2 spread across the board with more Elite units and Characters behind, Cavalry covering the flanks. It's exactly the way I wanted to field my Guard so I'm ecstatic!

[Mitchverr]

So I contacted FW about dkok and elysians with the new stuff from the astra militarum books, effectively asking about stratagem use, relics, doctrines and if the grinding advance rule will push across to the vehicles in the index, the reply.

 

Hi Mitch.

Thanks for contacting us. Our studio plan to release more Imperial Armour books that cover specific armies like the Death Korps and Elysians in greater detail. We don't know when these books will be released at the moment but hopefully you won't have too long to wait. These publications will answer all of your questions but until that time if you want to use any of the rules from the new Astra Militarum codex with DKK or Elysian armies we suggest talking this over with your gaming group first.

 

 

So, expect books for each of the armies in the future and its a case of "between you and your group" and i assume if you go to tourny, asking them their judgement on the subject with nothing being written off as a "no".

[NatBrannigan]

"Stuck" using their own special rules and unique units then, rather than adding those rules to a regimental tactic from the codex. Makes sense to me!

 

I'd have no problem what so ever with those models being used as Tallarn or whatever instead though.

 

Now can I add say, a Hades drill and Vets, into a Mordian detachment and still have everything benefit from the <Mordian> keyword? The drill and vets have the <Regiment> keyword I think?

[Tyr13]

Nope, they have the DKoK keyword. So itd be like adding catachans into your detachment.

[Feral_80]

Not really. Hades have the <regiment> keyword, thus you can obviously add them to *any* AM army and give them the same regiment keyword.

Hades are only <DKDK> if you take them in such a army, and with their own rules.

[Halfpint100]

Not really. Hades have the <regiment> keyword, thus you can obviously add them to *any* AM army and give them the same regiment keyword.

Hades are only <DKDK> if you take them in such a army, and with their own rules.

 

Yes, the Hades is a <regiment> I use one in most games and I love it. It eats many things

[Tirak]

"Stuck" using their own special rules and unique units then, rather than adding those rules to a regimental tactic from the codex. Makes sense to me!

 

I'd have no problem what so ever with those models being used as Tallarn or whatever instead though.

 

Now can I add say, a Hades drill and Vets, into a Mordian detachment and still have everything benefit from the <Mordian> keyword? The drill and vets have the <Regiment> keyword I think?

 

The stuck part is because they're about a point more per model despite their doctrine being comparable to the other guard doctrines. I'm still gonna use them as a detachment, because of some interesting synergies, but yeah, stuck.

[NatBrannigan]

Hopefully FW get a new book out sharpish then. I didn't realise the Infantry were more expensive.

 

Good news about the Drill though, it'll fit my army theme perfectly and want a transport for my new Ver squad. Just need to give them shotguns and maybe some mining gear to make them stand apart from my other units a bit. Sweet!

[Feral_80]

I too have a Hades and I think it would be nice as <Catachan>: I like the idea of Catachans with shotguns, and since the Hades 'veterans' are only BS 4+ (might be a typo, but that's it...), I'd just give them double flamers. Also, being possibly in a position to charge, the Vets will enjoy having Strength 4 and a tooled-up sarge. It's only a pity they cannot be accompanied by 1 character...

[Brother Talarian]

Where are people getting this searchlight grants +1 to hit? How many points is it? When/how is it used? Thanks