Kimbo Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) Trying to create a well balanced 2k list for my RG in 8th..what do you guys think? I think the list use good units for the RG CT! How would you optimize it? ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [110 PL, 2000pts] ++ HQ Captain : Chainsword, Plasma pistol [7pts] Kayvaan Shrike Troops Scout Squad : 7x Camo cloak . Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle . 6x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 6x Sniper rifle Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant Chainsword, Plasma pistol . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon Plasma gun Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant Chainsword, Plasma pistol . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon Plasma gun Elites Terminator Squad . Terminator : Power fist , Storm bolter . Terminator : Power fist , Storm bolter . Terminator : Power fist , Storm bolter . Terminator : Power fist , Storm bolter . Terminator Sergeant: Power sword, Storm bolter Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw . Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher , Twin lascannon Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher , Twin lascannon Heavy Support Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon Flyer Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher Dedicated Transport Rhino: Storm bolter Rhino: Storm bolter ++ Total: [110 PL, 2000pts] ++ Edited September 4, 2017 by Kimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 All feedback and tips are appriciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_Lord_Hardrada Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 As marine army lists go, it looks pretty solid. Only thing that I'd change, that I can see, is that I'd put a missile launcher in that scout squad for a bit of extra punch...but nothing there leaps out as bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 All feedback and tips are appriciated! Kimbo, Wolf_Lord_Hardrada and duz_ 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 OH sorry! Was not aware of that. Fixed it!! Race Bannon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I'm presuming the ML in the Dev Squad was due to points? And to be frank, any list with a Terminator Squad gets an automatic :tu: from me ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 I'm presuming the ML in the Dev Squad was due to points? And to be frank, any list with a Terminator Squad gets an automatic :tu: from me ^_^ NO i used wanted it. Think i should switch? OH thats cool! But regarding the list as a whole...you like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I'd actually go with 4 ML. For versatility. Lascannons are great against tough stuff, but a krak missile is almost as good and you get frag missiles for hordes. And you can spend a CP for a flakk missile against Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 I'd actually go with 4 ML. For versatility. Lascannons are great against tough stuff, but a krak missile is almost as good and you get frag missiles for hordes. And you can spend a CP for a flakk missile against Flyers. Cool! I will think about it..makes sence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I dunno, I'd try for all Lascannon in that squad for the AT punch, but that'll mean finding points somewhere else. Or take Claws' suggestion above. The idea is that when the squad starts taking wounds, homogeneous Dev Squads removes the choice to remove this dude or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I'd actually go with 4 ML. For versatility. Lascannons are great against tough stuff, but a krak missile is almost as good and you get frag missiles for hordes. And you can spend a CP for a flakk missile against Flyers. Cool! I will think about it..makes sence Edited September 5, 2017 by Claws and Effect Race Bannon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Last has a great start, there are a few things pertaining to optimization and game plan I would consider. First things first though is your gameplan: 1) The two 10-Man tacticals I assume go in the Rhinos. If the intent is to park them on objectives then they would be better suited with having a Combi-Plasma on the Sergeant. If they are going to be moving up the board aggressively towards close combat, then I would consider a different gameplan or dropping the Plasma Cannon for other changes. The plasma pistol on the sergeant seems at odds with the Gun/Cannon. 2) Your Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Captain appears homeless. If the intent is to park him with the Devastators (and maybe Scouts) for the aura, that's great. If that is the case, I would consider a different ranged weapon instead of the Pistol, he will more than likely never be in pistol range. Either The Primarch's Wrath, a Master-Crafted Boltgun, or a Combi-Plasma. I'm a big fan of throwing a jump pack on this guy as well to enable you to react-redeploy quickly to buff other units. 3) I agree with C&E on the Stormtalon. I would drop the Typhoon Launcher for the Twin Heavy Bolters to save points. While its not a bad choice it is quite steep for cost (IMO). 4) I am not a fan of the Terminators in this list as they to me don't really have a purpose. It's not that I dislike terminators in a list like this, I just don't feel they do either job well (Anti infantry or anti vehicle/monster). I would probably cut them, but if you want Terminators I could recommend other loadouts to keep the rule of cool in force that would compliment your army better. 5) The ML/Las debate with the Devs can go on forever, either is good honestly. I like the one token ML in either the devs (or in the scouts) for the Flakk Missle Stratagem (also HB in with the scouts for the Hellfire Shells Stratagem). I would consider 2/2 or 3/1 both valid choices. 6) Since you have so many elites, you could easily add a lieutenant to your list with something like Jump Pack, Master Crafted Bolter, and Power Sword (as an example - on the cheap). You could park this with your firebase for the re-rolls of 1 to wound and doing so would net you another command points (by moving 3 of the elites and the LT into a Vanguard Detachment). Something to consider. 7) You might want to consider upping the Vanguard Veterans to 10-man and adding in a bit of weapon variety (TH+SS) so that they can combat squad and go after two different targets. As it stands now I would Strike From The Shadows the VVs and Shrike, and maybe the Terminators if you keep them. If you end up going this route, you want to give careful consideration to their load-out so they live as long as possible to deal as much damage as possible. Race Bannon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Last has a great start, there are a few things pertaining to optimization and game plan I would consider. First things first though is your gameplan: 1) The two 10-Man tacticals I assume go in the Rhinos. If the intent is to park them on objectives then they would be better suited with having a Combi-Plasma on the Sergeant. If they are going to be moving up the board aggressively towards close combat, then I would consider a different gameplan or dropping the Plasma Cannon for other changes. The plasma pistol on the sergeant seems at odds with the Gun/Cannon. 2) Your Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Captain appears homeless. If the intent is to park him with the Devastators (and maybe Scouts) for the aura, that's great. If that is the case, I would consider a different ranged weapon instead of the Pistol, he will more than likely never be in pistol range. Either The Primarch's Wrath, a Master-Crafted Boltgun, or a Combi-Plasma. I'm a big fan of throwing a jump pack on this guy as well to enable you to react-redeploy quickly to buff other units. 3) I agree with C&E on the Stormtalon. I would drop the Typhoon Launcher for the Twin Heavy Bolters to save points. While its not a bad choice it is quite steep for cost (IMO). 4) I am not a fan of the Terminators in this list as they to me don't really have a purpose. It's not that I dislike terminators in a list like this, I just don't feel they do either job well (Anti infantry or anti vehicle/monster). I would probably cut them, but if you want Terminators I could recommend other loadouts to keep the rule of cool in force that would compliment your army better. 5) The ML/Las debate with the Devs can go on forever, either is good honestly. I like the one token ML in either the devs (or in the scouts) for the Flakk Missle Stratagem (also HB in with the scouts for the Hellfire Shells Stratagem). I would consider 2/2 or 3/1 both valid choices. 6) Since you have so many elites, you could easily add a lieutenant to your list with something like Jump Pack, Master Crafted Bolter, and Power Sword (as an example - on the cheap). You could park this with your firebase for the re-rolls of 1 to wound and doing so would net you another command points (by moving 3 of the elites and the LT into a Vanguard Detachment). Something to consider. 7) You might want to consider upping the Vanguard Veterans to 10-man and adding in a bit of weapon variety (TH+SS) so that they can combat squad and go after two different targets. As it stands now I would Strike From The Shadows the VVs and Shrike, and maybe the Terminators if you keep them. If you end up going this route, you want to give careful consideration to their load-out so they live as long as possible to deal as much damage as possible. Thanks for the input! If I remove the terminators..what would you add? I will stick with the talon Weapon loadout for now...time will tell If I change my opinion on them! I agree with the Sergeants...combi Plasma it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 And what are peoples opinion on Vanguard Veteran Squads? Are they really good? Just decent? ...I have yet to bought them...I want a good list and half decent units i can skip! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I also have this list...its not done...but i kind of like it...thoughts??? I really appriciate your comments since im relativley new! Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) HQ Captain Chainsword, Combi-plasma Elites Redemptor Dreadnought 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod Venerable Dreadnought Missile launcher, Twin lascannon Venerable Dreadnought Missile launcher, Twin lascannon Heavy Support Devastator Squad Armorium Cherub . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon Predator las sponsors and auto top Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) HQ Lieutenants . Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun Techmarine Boltgun, Power maul, Servo-arm Troops Intercessor Squad Bolt rifle, 9x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Fast Attack Inceptor Squad Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant Dedicated Transport Rhino 2x Storm bolter Rhino 2x Storm bolter [102 PL, 1997pts] Another option is to remove the Inceptor Squad for one more Dev Squad and firepower? No? Yes? ..:)) Edited September 5, 2017 by Kimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 They are iconic for Raven Guard in the sense that if you want Jump Infantry they are our best choice by far. They make a good bodyguard to zip around with Shrike and murder tons of infantry. That being said, they are hardly a "must bring" in a Space Marine list. I think most Space Marine players (regardless of Chapter) would have a top 3 units of the codex list, and I highly doubt Vanguard Veterans are on anyones list. If I were to cut the Terminators, I would add the lieutenant and the rest of the small changes (Combi Plasma on sergeants, better weapons on the Captain, etc). Something like Captain w/ Jump Pack (The Primarch's Wrath, Power Maul) Lieutenant w/ Jump Pack (Combi-Plasma, Power Maul) Each Plasma Pistol to Combi Plasma swap is 8 points as well. Feel free to add more wargear to those characters, with what points remain I would probably bulk out the scout squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) They are iconic for Raven Guard in the sense that if you want Jump Infantry they are our best choice by far. They make a good bodyguard to zip around with Shrike and murder tons of infantry. That being said, they are hardly a "must bring" in a Space Marine list. I think most Space Marine players (regardless of Chapter) would have a top 3 units of the codex list, and I highly doubt Vanguard Veterans are on anyones list. If I were to cut the Terminators, I would add the lieutenant and the rest of the small changes (Combi Plasma on sergeants, better weapons on the Captain, etc). Something like Captain w/ Jump Pack (The Primarch's Wrath, Power Maul) Lieutenant w/ Jump Pack (Combi-Plasma, Power Maul) Each Plasma Pistol to Combi Plasma swap is 8 points as well. Feel free to add more wargear to those characters, with what points remain I would probably bulk out the scout squad. I addes your comments to this list..what you think? ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [104 PL, 2000pts] ++ HQ Captain: Chainsword, Combi-plasma , Jump Pack Kayvaan Shrike Lieutenants . Lieutenant Chainsword, Jump Pack, Master-crafted boltgun Troops Scout Squad 8x Camo cloak . Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle . 7x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 7x Sniper rifle Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tactical Squad . 7x Space Marine . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun Elites Vanguard Veteran Squad []: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran []: 2x Lightning Claw . Space Marine Veteran Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Space Marine Veteran Storm shield Thunder hammer . Veteran Sergeant 2x Lightning Claw Venerable Dreadnought Missile launcher Twin lascannon Venerable Dreadnought Missile launcher Twin lascannon Heavy Support Devastator Squad Armorium Cherub . Space Marine Sergeant Chainsword . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon Lascannon + Flyer + Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher Dedicated Transport (tacticals in here) Rhino: 2x Storm bolter Rhino: 2x Storm bolter ++ Total: [104 PL, 2000pts] ++ Quick note: 1 of the HQs are support to be with the elites in a separate Detachment for 1 more CP! Edited September 5, 2017 by Kimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 And what are peoples opinion on Vanguard Veteran Squads? Are they really good? Just decent? ...I have yet to bought them...I want a good list and half decent units i can skip! Cheers! There are A LOT of discussion on this unit within the RG forum and the Astartes forum. Especially after the SftS rule was revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbarne Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Small tip: you can move your three elites and one HQ into a Vanguard detachment and pick up and extra CP. :) Your list looks really robust, I think you'd have a good time up against most opponents. Two areas it is slightly weaker against are weak chaff units and maybe fliers. You could consider dropping the tacticals to five men each and converting the rhinos to assault cannon Razorbacks. That helps with chaff ( and honestly most things ). Fliers are probably still fine with your dev squad and vanguard vets if need be, but I always like to suggest giving the Stormhawk a look instead of the Talon :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Small tip: you can move your three elites and one HQ into a Vanguard detachment and pick up and extra CP. :) Your list looks really robust, I think you'd have a good time up against most opponents. Two areas it is slightly weaker against are weak chaff units and maybe fliers. You could consider dropping the tacticals to five men each and converting the rhinos to assault cannon Razorbacks. That helps with chaff ( and honestly most things ). Fliers are probably still fine with your dev squad and vanguard vets if need be, but I always like to suggest giving the Stormhawk a look instead of the Talon :). I did consider the razorback..but i like having more bodies...Will definetly try that later though! If you look closley at the end of my list you can see i that i said that it Was suppose to be a Vanguard...but thanks for the tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 On the topic of SftS..If I reveal the veterans with this...can they now move in the same phase and then charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Ive just read about the aggressors and how awesome they are with sfts...what you guys think about removing the talon and 1x sniper scout...and then add 6x aggressors to sfts and double tap fire awesomeness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I can't commit real world experience to the Aggressors v Talon situation, as my aggressors are still sitting in the box, just haven't had time to put them together and playtest them yet. On paper though they are very strong. Them and the talon do similar things at a cost of mobility/survivability. The Talon is faster and more durable, but slightly less output. I think the Aggressors will have the added benefit of reinforcing/weighing down the flank they deploy on, so that if you attack the same flank with both the Aggressors AND the Vanguard Veterans, I think you will find your Vanguards will live longer. If it were me I would ultimately want both units in the long run and actively try both. While the static nature of the Aggressors ultimately doesn't sit quite right with me, I think as it stands right now they are the better unit for the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 I can't commit real world experience to the Aggressors v Talon situation, as my aggressors are still sitting in the box, just haven't had time to put them together and playtest them yet. On paper though they are very strong. Them and the talon do similar things at a cost of mobility/survivability. The Talon is faster and more durable, but slightly less output. I think the Aggressors will have the added benefit of reinforcing/weighing down the flank they deploy on, so that if you attack the same flank with both the Aggressors AND the Vanguard Veterans, I think you will find your Vanguards will live longer. If it were me I would ultimately want both units in the long run and actively try both. While the static nature of the Aggressors ultimately doesn't sit quite right with me, I think as it stands right now they are the better unit for the army. Yeah same here...they are still in the box..gonna put them together tomorrow! I got both...and i will try both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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