Ultramarines Tactica: Taking on the Deathguard

[Prot]

This might be an absurd thought, but what if 'resilience' reaches new heights with Mortarion and he halved damage? That would be insane, but it would make the heavy damage hitters far less effective.

 

I also have a feeling as we see more and more Primarchs/big hitters (forgeworld etc) that perhaps fittingly, Guilliman is not able to go toe to toe with these guys.

[Captain Idaho]

Meh you can get 2 Devastator squads for a Terminus Ultra - I wouldn't bother.

 

I say kill his army first but whilst doing it then you can put spare weapons fire into him. Once you've picked off a few wounds you can concentrate on killing him.

 

Don't be afraid to charge a Terminator squad into him either. You strike 1st and enough Power Fists will hurt him bad.

 

Or just course Guilliman or an Imperial Knight is going to take him on.

[Lord Blackwood]

It may sound like an extreme answer , but I like the falchion against mortarion 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Five Terminus Ultras are exactly 2000 points in a Lord of War detachment. The Terminus isn't limited either.

 

Just saying.

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, so the rules have been leaked. Now we know what to expect. What is it that we can expect? Dakka. How original :D

No, seriously, I think Morty is the only credible melee threat that DG can offer. Even Deathshrouds are way to expensive with 75ppm for only 2W 4++ 5+++ T5 without notable ranged firepower will not stand long against Marines. Not as long as there are Plasma and Grav weapons present. Other things can shoot and they probably will, given their Legion trait. There may some melee units present like Beasts of Nurgle, Mauler Fiends or Spawns, not none of those are all too threatening in T1 and can be dealt with. They also do not synergize with DG rules.

 

Now then, things to look out for. If you are playing Primaris-heavy, then look outbof that Mortar Tank. D6 shot at 12-48" with 8/-2/D3 will murder 2W infantry. It also carriers 2 36" 8/-4/D6 weapons, so watch out for those Dreads. Taking it down it not easy, as it has 12W T8 3+. You need dedicated anti tank, alternatively you need literally anything with Guilliman :D

 

Sharing top priority are those new Plague Volkswagen Beetles. They are not as great against Infantry with their Missile Launcher and MM, they only thing that is good at killing Marines there is the D3 12" 6/-1/1 gun. However, it moves 10", have Relentless, has a Dreadnought profile with 4+/4+ and hits on 3+ if the unit has 3+ members. It also sports a 5++ and 5+++. Tough little buggers. They will wreck your tanks, so open fire. Reducing them below 3 members is mandatory. Might of Heroes on a priority target to reduce chances of wounding goes a long way. With pretty much only one-shot weapons this will reduce their effectiveness dramatically. Oh, and they are essentially a mobile 7" terrain piece for infantry, if they are wholly within. Yeah, auto-include. I won't be surprised to see 2 units of 3.

 

One of the reasons why a gunline will be strong is a dude that gives re-roll of 1 for Disgustingly Resilient within 7". Well, that and their Legion trait.

 

Having seen all that, premier units, alongside those mentioned, will be Plague Bearers or Pox Walkers as bubble wrap, Havocs, Plague Marines, Obliterators. Verdict still out on those other Terminators and Blight Drones.

 

Morty... Outside of Guilliman, Leviathan and maybe Killshot I see him as a gargantuan bullet sponge, that takes away too much dakka. Maybe several Dreadnoughts getting the charge off will kill him, but how realistic is that? He worries me.

 

Beyond that, it is a shoot-off. Marines are more efficient, but DG more resilient. So hit them hard. They will win the grinder game.

 

Anyway, just a first impression ;)

[Captain Idaho]

I don't think Death Guard get Havocs or Obliterators.

 

I agree they're definitely going to stylise themselves as close shooting army that grinds you out in close combat.

 

I think we can do well with a potent close combat unit like Terminators acting as a reserve/attacking element. They can put a lot of hurt on Death Guard before all the attritional mortal wounds start coming in.

 

Mortarion is tough. Hideously so. A Terminator squad can do some damage of course but is better off holding him in combat for a prolonged time thanks to their invulnerable saves but it won't last long.

[Frater Cornelius]

Just checked. You are indeed correct, no Oblits or Havocs. This means Plague Beetles, Mortars, Plague Marines in Rhinos and Surgeon as part of the gunline, maybe a Hellbrutes as well. The rest can either be melee or full ranged with bubble wrap.

 

As Primaris I will definitely be looking as a strong ranged alpha strike. Hellblasters on the Beetles or Mortar, Repulsor can handle infantry. However, one would either need dedicated anti-tank in form of Vendreads or Tanks, or Guilliman for those re-rolls.

 

Their big bonus is to move and fire heavy without penatly and rapid fire at 18". You either need long-ranged alpha or you blow up with melee, but you need to deal with bubble wraps and transports.

 

I can also see mech DG being s threat. Plague Beetles, Mortars and Rhinos.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't use Primaris so I think I actually have a better chance. Tactical squads with special and heavy weapons help us a lot. Devastator squads provide decent and cheap heavy weapons. Sternguard can pick apart just about anything.

 

Ultramarines Strategums and those of the book favour things like Tactical squads. Hellfire rounds and Flakk missiles are 2D3 mortals wounds a turn, whilst a Sternguard unit can wound with +1. That is BIG.

 

I'm thinking of starting a Mortarion (and Magnus) Tactics thread incidentally.

[Frater Cornelius]

I tend to run Scouts for the MW Stratagems. Hellblasters are very good when it comes pressuring the big stuff. I think the main advantage of miniMarines will be that a lot of DG weapons do 2 or D3 damage, killing 2W models more effiently. But then again, a Repulsor with Might of Heroes is tough to break for them. What changes between the mini vs big Marine setup is target priorities. I will go right after the Mortar, the Blight Autocannons and Blight Launchers. You may need to prioritise differently.

 

Either way, I am confident, that we can outshoot them if Morty is not a factor. For the rest, the is Guilliman :D Null Zone is also very useful to deal with Morty.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Ultramarines Strategums and those of the book favour things like Tactical squads. Hellfire rounds and Flakk missiles are 2D3 mortals wounds a turn, whilst a Sternguard unit can wound with +1. That is BIG.

 

 

Except that you can only spend one command point per phase. So...heavy bolter, missile launcher, or Sternguard wounds. Pick one, not a barrage of all three.

[Prot]

 

Ultramarines Strategums and those of the book favour things like Tactical squads. Hellfire rounds and Flakk missiles are 2D3 mortals wounds a turn, whilst a Sternguard unit can wound with +1. That is BIG.

 

Except that you can only spend one command point per phase. So...heavy bolter, missile launcher, or Sternguard wounds. Pick one, not a barrage of all three.

 

 

Command Points aren't unique. The Strategems or things you use them on are.

 

So you can use a command point to re-roll a dice, then a command point for Scions of Ultramar, etc. Unless I've been doing it wrong.

 

I will say though that I've found you can run through CP's super fast with a full codex of strats, etc.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes it is only Stratagems themselves that can only be used once per phase.

 

It is a tough thing to do, not burn through them. Ideally you'd like to Hellfire every turn and Scions of Guilliman every turn.

 

That's part of the fun of new 40K. Making decisions.

 

I'm thinking of another thread now :)

[Brother Captain Ed]

Hmmm...

 

So it seems. Mea Culpa.

 

Given that the game seems to feel more lethal (I've never tabled 100% of my opponents on tournament day before)b I wonder if it wouldnt be better to frontload stratagems into earlier turns? Food for thought.

[Kallas]

I wonder if it wouldnt be better to frontload stratagems into earlier turns? Food for thought.

Statistically speaking, yes, it's better to front load your CP expenditure: the more things that are dead, the fewer things are killing you, therefore your path to victory is easier.

 

Of course, it's a dice game, so in all likelihood there'll be turning points where a spate of bad dice on your part/good dice on your opponent's part will result in a change fortune. In that case, having CPs to hand to halt/reverse the pendulum swing would be useful.

 

I guess, at this point, it's about mindset: are you going all in early to cripple your opponent ASAGDMFP; or are you pressing hard but holding things back for when things, inevitably, invariably break and you need a boost of power later?

[Brother Captain Ed]

 

I wonder if it wouldnt be better to frontload stratagems into earlier turns? Food for thought.

Statistically speaking, yes, it's better to front load your CP expenditure: the more things that are dead, the fewer things are killing you, therefore your path to victory is easier.

 

Of course, it's a dice game, so in all likelihood there'll be turning points where a spate of bad dice on your part/good dice on your opponent's part will result in a change fortune. In that case, having CPs to hand to halt/reverse the pendulum swing would be useful.

 

I guess, at this point, it's about mindset: are you going all in early to cripple your opponent ASAGDMFP; or are you pressing hard but holding things back for when things, inevitably, invariably break and you need a boost of power later?

 

Not gonna lie: I'm a pretty big fan of ASAGDMFP.  In a tournament I only have so much time.  I want to win outright, not go to decision.