Crazy ideas for our codex (whishlistin´& conspiracies)

[Are Verlo]

I´m having an ineffective day at work, so I took a long lunch and want to share som crazy thoughts about BA future and game balance.

 

Many BA players feel we are left out in the cold, being a chapter that has many our our unique units specialized for melee.

 

Overall this edition is deadly. Models die and reaching close combat might seem hard. So I have it some thought and came up with these crazy ideas.

 

Primaris Deat Company?! The primaris marines still suffer from both the red thirst and the flaw? So primaris death company would be a logical step?

 

Think about DC with 2 W, one more attack (based off current primaris stats compared to ASM/TM). Depending on the cost this could be efficient.

Their "FnP" would help a little more for 2W models.

 

 

And for reaching combat I we could get some sort of stratagem that lets JPA units roll and extra d6 on the charge move when charging after "deep strike".

 

"Cometh the host" 2CP

Chose one unit that set up by JPA this movement phase. This unit and all units  within 6" that set up with JPA may roll an extra d6 when charging this turn.

 

This would increase the chances of reaching combat with a few units, but it would not invalidate tactics regarding DS, such as screening or using scouts ect to control where units may be placed.

 

Feel free to share some mad ramblings with me. And keep up the good spirits and sportsmanship. We don´t want any whining here ;-P

Edited November 14, 2017 by Jolemai
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[Guest Triszin]

As I wolf player I think it'd be cool if you guys got access to the stormwolf, a fast transport to deliver death company, replace hel frost turret with a baal predator turret

[Are Verlo]

GW will probably make a new kit. An expensive (both cash and points) transport for primaris DC ;-P

 

Joking aside, IF GW keeps releasing annual chapter approved relases, we will have eventually have a balanced game. I am willing to do my part and play the game to provide data.

 

One variable that should be more under control is the ammount of terrain used. It is a completely different game when I play at my local scene (very dense and diverse terrain) and tournaments (somewhat open, especially when compared to "back home).

 

The way cover works now is "ok" I wish it was not that binary 1= unit in cover, 0 = unit not in cover. But on the other hand it makes for a smooth game. It is no argument when all bases are in area terrain (thinking of infantry now). 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

While I'm in the minority, on this I don't necessarily want Death Company Primaris. I don't use a lot of Death Company anyway, as They are not what drew me to the chapter.

I would rather not have to take multiple HQs in order to play BubbleWrap40k. It is very discouraging having to take 3 expensive HQs in order to form a nucleus of an army on the table top, that have worse Elite choices than other units. We all know points reductions need to be put into place over Angelus Bolt Guns, as well as Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistol's insane price tags. 

They also need to put Death company back to a 5+ to ignore wounds since 5+ and 6+ is so extremely common across the board. Both Iron hands and Death Guard are army wide resilient. The ability for other armies to gain a 5+ ignore wound roll is almost too common. 

While the Sanguinor is better, I still feel like he is very lack luster when compared to Celestine and the Primarchs. I just don't feel his presence on the board, He should be on monstrous levels of scary and he simply isn't.

If they put a +1 Ignore Wound on all infantry, bike, and Dreadnoughts with <Blood Angels> within 6" of a sanguinary priest (Allowing for Death company to have a 5+) I would also be okay with that. 

There is too much wish listing and fixing that I feel BA need right now, that it might actually put me in the light of QQ'n and being *that* BA player.

No one wants to be that BA player. 

Anyways, the biggest things for me are simple: Price reductions across the board, Dreadnoughts, specialized pistols/guns, Make Lucifer Engines great again, and Jump Packs being free on ASM and VVs, (Actually make it free for all Melee units that are Jump Infantry) Finally an Ace Primary and Secondary skill such the likes that Death Guard now have. And I'll be happy. I don't need new models (other than the HQs needing TLC) I want competitive and balanced rules that don't have me defeated as soon as my opponent sets up a Primarch or 75 models of X horde on the other side of the board.

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[brother_b]

I don't' want to rely on primaris DC for my DC to be good. I'd like them to get boosted a little. Partly this is just because I don't like primaris, partly because I already have some DC. I have faith we'll get some sort of stratagem to ensure our deepstrike models can get into combat. The crux of the issue is what happens once they are in combat.

[Are Verlo]

Don´t get me wrong. I´m not too hot on the primaris marines myself. But I think or fear it is the way GW is leaning for BA.

I´ve got 30 DC (20 bolter & chainsword, 10 assorted bolters/power weapons/hammers) and I love using them. They are now no longer a powerful hammer-unit, but more of a chaff cleaner. And they do it well. That many bolter shots do some damage and even better if you get to charge someone the same round.

 

A point reduction would be perfect and some nice strategems too.

[Orblivion]

It's a shame that the most flight-centric chapter is also the only chapter with its own codex without a unique flyer.  I'm hoping we'll see a close combat Primaris unit released in tandem with either the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codex, whichever comes first.  Not as an exclusive unit for either codex, I just hope that a CC Primaris unit will be ready for those two codices and I think a DC variant should be easy enough.  I want to see incentives to take Assault Marines over Tacticals again, and I think a deepstrike advantage would differentiate BA from regular marines fairly well.  Dante and Mephiston need new models, Dante moreso than Mephiston IMO.

 

One other important thing to note, BALANCE THE FOC BETTER.  We have only 3 Troop options while our HQ and Elites sections are completely overflowing.  That's less of an issue now than it was in 7th, but it still makes absolutely no sense.

[durdle-durdle]

It's a shame that the most flight-centric chapter is also the only chapter with its own codex without a unique flyer. I'm hoping we'll see a close combat Primaris unit released in tandem with either the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codex, whichever comes first. Not as an exclusive unit for either codex, I just hope that a CC Primaris unit will be ready for those two codices and I think a DC variant should be easy enough. I want to see incentives to take Assault Marines over Tacticals again, and I think a deepstrike advantage would differentiate BA from regular marines fairly well. Dante and Mephiston need new models, Dante moreso than Mephiston IMO.

 

One other important thing to note, BALANCE THE FOC BETTER. We have only 3 Troop options while our HQ and Elites sections are completely overflowing. That's less of an issue now than it was in 7th, but it still makes absolutely no sense.

I'd be okay with them putting an option like "for each chaplain you take as an hq, you may take a death company squad as a troops choice". Do you think that would go some way to making dc better? Ob sec (troops) and +1 to wound in combat (as a chapter trait) on top of what they have now.

[Helias_Tancred]

My Codex Wish List is simple.

 

1. Access to Stormtalons and Stormhawks.

2. A chapter tactic that is useful in 8th edition, has value, and is a good fit for us.

3. Cool chapter relics that are fitting for us.

4. Useful Stratagems that give us flexibility, and one specifically for the Death Company.

5. Amazing new fluff.

6. The Sanguinor is buffed and becomes our most powerful character. Think a "mini" Primarch.

[Zuvassin]

Fluff-wise, aren't Primaris supposed to be engineered to not have the flaws of their gene-seed, i.e. there would never be Primaris Death Company?

 

Chaplains seem more central to BA fluff than being "flight centric"...maybe a BA Chaplain Dread? Death Company get a "free" Chaplain that doesn't take up a slot, or maybe BA Chaplains in general are 1-2 or 1-3 per slot?

[Orblivion]

The flaws still exist in the Primaris geneseed, they are just less likely to appear IIRC.

 

Chaplains play a larger role among the Blood Angels due to the Black Rage, but then so do the Sanguinary Priests due to the Red Thirst.  However, ALL Blood Angels have a natural affinity for and love of flight.

[Bremon]

My Codex Wish List is simple.

 

1. Access to Stormtalons and Stormhawks.

2. A chapter tactic that is useful in 8th edition, has value, and is a good fit for us.

3. Cool chapter relics that are fitting for us.

4. Useful Stratagems that give us flexibility, and one specifically for the Death Company.

5. Amazing new fluff.

6. The Sanguinor is buffed and becomes our most powerful character. Think a "mini" Primarch.

Agreed. That BA have no Stormtalon or Stormhawk is just ridiculous.

 

Chaplains I'm not as big on. They're important but having kitschy dreadnought characters is boring. I'd rather have our existing dreads made good than more garbage added to the fire.

 

I do expect Primaris DC at some point; they're still BA and still have flawed geneseed.

[Orpheus Black Blood]

I think The Sanguinor should be very powerful. Maybe not as much as in the novels, but for someone that took down a Lord of Skulls and ka'bandha (one of the 4 greater minions of Khorne) the actual incarnation is ridiculous.

[Orblivion]

I think The Sanguinor should be very powerful. Maybe not as much as in the novels, but for someone that took down a Lord of Skulls and ka'bandha (one of the 4 greater minions of Khorne) the actual incarnation is ridiculous.

 

Agreed.  I would like to see him become a true avatar of Sanguinius rather than see Sanguinius resurrected in any way.  That means that his stats should reflect his quasi-primarch status.

[Orpheus Black Blood]

 

I think The Sanguinor should be very powerful. Maybe not as much as in the novels, but for someone that took down a Lord of Skulls and ka'bandha (one of the 4 greater minions of Khorne) the actual incarnation is ridiculous.

 

Agreed.  I would like to see him become a true avatar of Sanguinius rather than see Sanguinius resurrected in any way.  That means that his stats should reflect his quasi-primarch status.

 

Don't get me wrong, i like the in game character we have now, but it's missing fluff wise a lot imho

Edited September 13, 2017 by Orpheus Black Blood

[Damon Nightman]

I think the Sanguinor should be as good as a primarch or at least very close. He's basically the psychic manifestation of a primarch by all the BA's right? To me that sounds like he could surpass primarch levels but idk... maybe the BA don't dream big enough?

[Orpheus Black Blood]

I think the Sanguinor should be as good as a primarch or at least very close. He's basically the psychic manifestation of a primarch by all the BA's right? To me that sounds like he could surpass primarch levels but idk... maybe the BA don't dream big enough?

I also think it could surpass primarch levels, but i don't think games workshop does

[Karhedron]

Fluff-wise, aren't Primaris supposed to be engineered to not have the flaws of their gene-seed, i.e. there would never be Primaris Death Company?

The fluff on this in Dark Imperium is vague. Cawl claims to Guilliman that he has corrected the flaws in the BA and SW geneseeds but has not removed their "idiosyncracies" as they formed part of the Emperor's designs for these 2 legions. Apparently there have been no regressions with the new geneseed and it is stable. This raises several questions:

 

1. Has the Red Thirst been cured as well as the Black Rage or that the "idiosyncracy" Cawl refers to?

2. Is the Black Rage something that can be cured at the purely genetic level? In some versions of the fluff it also has a psychic component. The BAs have been trying without success for 10,000 years which leads to the next question....

3. Is Cawl as smart as he thinks he is?

 

All we know for sure at this point is that Cawl has told Guilliman that the BAs are cured. He might be correct. He might believe he is correct. Or he could just be lying and quietly hiding the bodies of Primaris BAs who do succumb to the curse so that Guilliman does not have second thoughts about Cawl's little pet projects.

 

So far we only have 1 suggestion that the DC will not be needed in future and that is in-Universe. GW could choose to take it in several directions from here.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, there have been previous attempts to 'breed out' the Black Rage, it could just be that he's not using traditional science as we understand it, but some Mechanicus occultist soul/warp-manipulation branch of science. We know there's a subset of the Mechanicus Genetors called the Metasurgeons, perhaps they have weird soul-surgery that could be used to manipulate the geneseed?

[The Unseen]

The Red Thirst is intrinsic to any who share the blood of Sanguinius.

It was present, though not as common, as early as during the Great Crusade.

It was included for a reason by the Emperor, and thus has been left by Cawl, or so he claims.

The Black Rage is a psychic (cause dna doesn't carry memories my friends) imprint left on Blood Angels and their successors from the violence of Sanguinius' death.

 

My headcanon for why we have this "blood memory" is that we remain one of the most psychicly gifted among the astartes, and we're recorded as being especially close to our primarch in a metaphysical sense.

 

You can't go in and "fix" the Rage on a genetic level, as that isn't where it stems from.

And the Thirst is an integral part of who the Blood Angels are and where they fit inside the Emps plans.

 

The only thing I interpret out of what Cawl said is the slow degeneration of the geneseed itself has been fixed, the replication errors and such that make the implantation process have a higher failure rate and etc.

 

He might believe to have "cured" the Rage, but I'm almost certain it'll be shown he failed.

Edited September 13, 2017 by The Unseen

[Orblivion]

The real fact of the matter is that there is no advantage to be gained for GW by writing out the Red Thirst and/or the Black Rage.  They will still be there.

[Djangomatic82]

Pie in the Sky Codex wishlisting

Unit changes
-Assault Marines w.JP:15pts and moved to the Troop Battlefield Role
-Baal Predator: Moved to the Fast Attack Battlefield Role
-DC: 15pts
-DC w.JP: 17pts
-Furioso Dreadnaught: 70pts
-DC Dreadnaught:80pts

Equipment
- Angelu Bolt Gun: 2pts
- Hand Flamer: 2pts (really no idea. its prett garbage, but i dont think GW would set it at 0pts.)
- Inferno Pistol: 9pts (same as Eldar Fusion Pistols)
- Encarmin Sword: 6pts
- Encarmine Axe: 9pts
- Power Fist: 12pts
- Blood Talons: 65 - reroll hit rolls of 1,Add an additional attack on a hit roll of 6+

Abilities

Chapter Tactic -Encarmine Fury
+1 to Wound rolls

Red Thirst
When a Blood Angles model with this ability makes a successfull charge, before pile in, this model may shoot, even if it, or another friendly model, is within 1" of an enemy model.

Black Rage
+1 attack on charge, 6+ feel no pain, when a Blood Angels model with Black Rage slay's an enemy model in the fight phase, that model immediatly makes another hit roll using that same weapon.

Warlord Trait - Descent of Angels
If your Warlord is alive, units with the Jump Pack Assault or the Teleport Strike abilities may set up on the battlefield at the beginning of the movement phase.

Commander Dante - Tactical Precision
Imperial Units within 6" of Commander Dante gain this ability.
Any Infantry, Biker or Dreadnaught Unit within 6" of this model gain all abilites this unit has.

[Karhedron]

The Black Rage is a psychic (cause dna doesn't carry memories my friends) imprint left on Blood Angels and their successors from the violence of Sanguinius' death.

 

This is a Universe where Marines can absorb people's memories by eating them. :p Genetically imparted memories are very much part of the setting, however impossible they are in real-world terms.

 

You can't go in and "fix" the Rage on a genetic level, as that isn't where it stems from.

 

Different versions of the fluff differ in this regard. Originally the Black Rage it was entirely genetic. In the early fluff, the Blood Angels geneseed reserves were destroyed during the Battle of Terra. In order to rebuild in the aftermath, they had to extract new geneseed from the recently deceased body of Sanguinius. Unfortunately his memories, particularly his death were etched into the new geneseed.

 

More recent fluff has muddled this by adding that it is a psychic effect but some recent fluff still talks about the Black Rage being a genetic effect (see Lamenters fluff). Like much of GW's fluff, it is sufficiently unclear that they could choose to go either way with it in future.

[Helias_Tancred]

I think the Sanguinor should be as good as a primarch or at least very close. He's basically the psychic manifestation of a primarch by all the BA's right? To me that sounds like he could surpass primarch levels but idk... maybe the BA don't dream big enough?

 

Or a very skilled and capable warrior who was already towards the top of his peers from the Horus Heresy era ... *cough* Azkaellon *cough* ..... who maybe now has even more powers and prowess, such as his ancient body becomes a vessel of a fragment of our primarch's power at times of great need?

Edited September 18, 2017 by Helias Tancred

[durdle-durdle]

The sanguinor: hero of time

 

Hyrule needs you, angels!