Bloody Legionnaire Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 So is this relative to HH book series or the HH game itself? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I also think a series on the Unification Wars would kill a lot of the mystique surrounding the period (and indeed the Emperor), so I doubt we'd see that either. Only bad writers kill mystique Good writers add to it Could you imagine a Unification Wars series handled exclusively by Abnett, Wraight, ADB? How about a series by Kyme, Thorpe, Swallow? Panzer, LOYAL-TRAITOR and m0nolith 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinespider Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Except not really. No amount of "good writing" can change the fact that you're taking a period of history that used to be a nearly-blank slate and are filling it in. The entire Horus Heresy series has stripped out most of the Crusade era's mystique. Master Commander Ajax, Felix Antipodes, graysparrow and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qkhitai Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I also think a series on the Unification Wars would kill a lot of the mystique surrounding the period (and indeed the Emperor), so I doubt we'd see that either. Only bad writers kill mystique Good writers add to it Could you imagine a Unification Wars series handled exclusively by Abnett, Wraight, ADB? How about a series by Kyme, Thorpe, Swallow? I don't doubt that there are Black Library authors out there who could pen some great novels about the Unification Wars. They could also I'm sure craft some very imaginative stories about the lost legions as well. That doesn't mean that they should. I loved the parts of Kasper Hawser's narrative on Terra at the end of the Unification Wars in Prospero Burns, but I loved it precisely because it was a tiny window into another, unexplored world. It raised far more questions than it could ever answer, but those are questions that hobbyists can latch on to and answer themselves. That is what official fluff and background material should do, in my opinion. Zuvassin and Grim Dog Studios 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The entire Horus Heresy series has stripped out most of the Crusade era's mystique. Yeah and I think it's good the way it is now. No clue since when people started thinking not knowing details about a specific era is better than having well written novels about that era. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I'm saying I prefer good stories to a vacuum...and a vacuum to bad stories You guys may have other preferences. I was never big on "mystique" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Except not really. No amount of "good writing" can change the fact that you're taking a period of history that used to be a nearly-blank slate and are filling it in. The entire Horus Heresy series has stripped out most of the Crusade era's mystique. Nothing against you pal, but I think this viewpoint is inherently flawed. It's a bit rose tinted glasses for my liking. There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. The Heresy books have created incredible characters, storylines and filled in gaps we didn't even know existed in amazing ways (IMO Imperium secondus etc). Irbis 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qkhitai Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) There was no mystique ... All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever... But that was the mystique But don't get me wrong, I also think the Horus Heresy series had to happen, in some shape or form, given its importance to the setting, the long shadows cast by the primarchs and ultimately the money that could be made off of it. And I don't begrudge the series for that; for all it's faults I think it ultimately did a lot of good. I don't think it's as exciting as it once was before the books came out (with my own rose-tinted glasses on I guess), but I can appreciate it for what it is and what is has done. I guess it comes down to personal taste and what kind of hobbyists we are. I'd rather be given a little bit of fluff and be allowed to go off and fill in the gaps myself, but I respect others who would rather see the company putting more effort into fleshing out their own universe. I'm still intrigued to see what they do next after the Heresy series concludes. Edited September 21, 2017 by Qkhitai Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 But that was the mystique But don't get me wrong, I also think the Horus Heresy series had to happen, in some shape or form, given its importance to the setting, the long shadows cast by the primarchs and ultimately the money that could be made off of it. And I don't begrudge the series for that; for all it's faults I think it ultimately did a lot of good. I don't think it's as exciting as it once was before the books came out (with my own rose-tinted glasses on I guess), but I can appreciate it for what it is and what is has done. I guess it comes down to personal taste and what kind of hobbyists we are. I'd rather be given a little bit of fluff and be allowed to go off and fill in the gaps myself, but I respect others who would rather see the company putting more effort into fleshing out their own universe. I'm still intrigued to see what they do next after the Heresy series concludes. But that was not "mystique". That was a gaping hole no amount of headcanoning it away could fill. It was a terrible gaping hole, at that, as it just led to arguments and the community playing in fractured single person worlds instead of shared setting. If I were to do say DA pre-Heresy force, I'd very much prefer to do it using examples from excellent art in FW Horus Heresy books, featuring dozens of well thought markings and schemes I can easily tweak to make mine, than to have "mystique" forcing me to invent something most likely looking far worse (come on, how many 40K fans are graphic designers? even people like me who are educated in art, most likely have zero experience in designing heraldry and natural looking colour schemes looking believable on minis, nor time or sources to research those unlike FW writers) that will never be acknowledged as HH scheme by any other DA player as they all have wildly different ones and as far as they are concerned my army is just wrongly coloured Ultramarines or something. Panzer and Taliesin 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Other than an expanded Badab war of course. I'd like to see the mysterious "War of the False Primarch" come to light as a full fleshed out series there were many space marine chapters involved almost like another mini horus heresy Krash Irbis, Felix Antipodes and bluntblade 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwingt65 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The entire Horus Heresy series has stripped out most of the Crusade era's mystique. Yeah and I think it's good the way it is now.No clue since when people started thinking not knowing details about a specific era is better than having well written novels about that era. :ermm: So when are we getting these well written novels then? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Qkhitai, A D-B and Lexington 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There are simply no more such mystical and dramatical stuff on the level with the HH after it will end. New w41k so far sucks. graysparrow 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Fair point, but I disagree my man. End of the day 40k is a lot of things to a lot of people and everyone is never going to be on the same page about stuff Panzer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4891934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Fair point, but I disagree my man. End of the day 40k is a lot of things to a lot of people and everyone is never going to be on the same page about stuff :D And that exactly is why it's such a successful fictional universe! Its very adaptable. Charlo 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAlex Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Hopefully there will be one or two more about the Fists! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Hopefully there will be one or two more about the Fists! Of course. The Fists single handedly saved the Imperium. HighMarshalAlex 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Fair point, but I disagree my man. End of the day 40k is a lot of things to a lot of people and everyone is never going to be on the same page about stuff And that exactly is why it's such a successful fictional universe! Its very adaptable. And it still is, just that we got more official background story to work with now. Charlo and Felix Antipodes 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 · Hidden by Brother Casman, September 21, 2017 - off topic Hidden by Brother Casman, September 21, 2017 - off topic There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Fair point, but I disagree my man. End of the day 40k is a lot of things to a lot of people and everyone is never going to be on the same page about stuff And that exactly is why it's such a successful fictional universe! Its very adaptable. Right... Primaris adaptable from the box We are not doing codexes anymore - take Indexes. 2 months later - well we are doing codexes - forget the indexes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892118
m0nolith Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 There was no mystique or grand hidden truth to do with the Heresy before the books started to flesh it out. All we knew previous was that 9 legions went bad and it was the biggest war ever that ended in a big scuff on Terra with the main fluff being a paragraph about Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor. That was the whole point though. Not knowing what happened during the heresy was a key part of the 40k Universe. The Heresy was rumour and legend. Very few people knew about it. No one in 40k knew exactly what happened. No one dared to speak about it. The Imperium was rotting, and no one knew why. Filling in so much detail only diminishes the 40k setting. Removes the mystery and fun from it. There's no more: "what-if?". That's not to say the Heresy Setting is bad, far from it. The stories are great, the universe they built awesome, but it all detracts from 40k. Fair point, but I disagree my man. End of the day 40k is a lot of things to a lot of people and everyone is never going to be on the same page about stuff :D And that exactly is why it's such a successful fictional universe! Its very adaptable. And it still is, just that we got more official background story to work with now.I agree wholehardetly. Yes, we did lose some genuinely cool mistique when some of those mysterious aspects of the 40k universe were fleshed out, but the Horus Heresy series was (or rather up to this point) a resounding success given how great the series has been! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 In my opinion the issue with the Unification Wars would be one of what story is there to tell? Post apocalyptic earth, thunder warriors and the Emperor slowly grinding down the other warlords, ending with the creation of the legions and the betrayal of the thunder warriors. Might make a decent one off novel or at most a trilogy but with air magic and sorcery taking over the role of chaos is it more compelling than a well written scouring series or a 41k series which isn't as human centric and actually covers the plethora of factions people play. The other issue would be to differentiate the new unification setting from any number of hard sci fi series with post apocalypse and psychic overtones Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 If they FW books have taught me anything it's that the unification wars are pretty vast and there is certainly some intrigue to be had there. Scouring would be great because you could have the slow reintroduction of the Xenos into the galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) I agree with the comments about potentially spoiling the mystique/mystery of events that are part of the legends of the past to a setting. That is precisely what Brian Herbert did to the Dune series by writing about the Butlerian Jihad (and ruining it). The HH has been done and much of that mystery has now gone. However, for the most part (IMHO) it has been a pretty good ride. Personally I do NOT want the Unification Wars to be written about. I want some mystery to remain in the setting's past/history. However, with HH almost done then anything between 30k and 40k is fair game for exploration and the timeline has plenty of enigmatic entries ripe for stories. I expect more The Beast Arises type series rather than something as epic as HH going forward. Maybe not 12 monthly releases but certainly 6 bi monthly and other formats. I would love them to explore The Apostasy and The Badab War but there are plenty of others like War of the False Primarch, War of the Confessor, War of the Golden Cog etc Edited September 21, 2017 by DukeLeto69 bluntblade 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 In my opinion the issue with the Unification Wars would be one of what story is there to tell? Post apocalyptic earth, thunder warriors and the Emperor slowly grinding down the other warlords, ending with the creation of the legions and the betrayal of the thunder warriors. Might make a decent one off novel or at most a trilogy but with air magic and sorcery taking over the role of chaos is it more compelling than a well written scouring series or a 41k series which isn't as human centric and actually covers the plethora of factions people play. The other issue would be to differentiate the new unification setting from any number of hard sci fi series with post apocalypse and psychic overtones Here's an idea how to differentiate it: don't do it from the Porto-Imperial side. Have the Emperors conquets be a slow moving "other", this unknown thing that can't be stopped, this mysterious thing that's almost alien (alien as unknown, not xenos) and have the books be from the perspectives from the people of those states that are on the chopping block, Ursh, Gyptus, Mars, etc etc. Think of the Romans when it came to the Cimbri, or the Hungarians when the Mongols came to their door. There is something fascinating about having a political and social drama where the "other" is slowly fleshed out over a series of books. We all know what that "other" is in this case even though those characters do not, and we know what the conclusion will be, but it would be interesting IMO, the same way it was interesting when characters in the Heresy discover that the Imerial truth was a lie, that there are demons and things that go bump in the night, those things in this case being the unstoppable hordes of the Emperor. That...post ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would be.... I love it when that happens. PS, a monetary incentive for BL is if FW was to make Unfication wars models, it would imagine it would generate a lot more sales for other the other techno-barbarian States other than just the Proto-Imperial state if there is a emotional attachment of some kind there. Urriak Urruk and Irbis 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I'd honestly be more interested in some Dark Age of Technology era novels HOWEVER considering how extremely advanced technology was at that time (comparable to pre Slaanesh Eldar and Necrons back in the day) and that everything that makes the 30k/40k universe what it is came only after it...it wouldn't exactly be a 40k novel anymore. It'd be like writing a novel set in germany....but 4k years in the past. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339439-end-of-an-era-for-bl/page/4/#findComment-4892213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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