=][= Unit(s) of the week: Basilisks =][=

[Withershadow]

Carriage crew is 4, and the way the FAQ reads when you take multiple earthshakers the crew for them combines. So a battery of 2 is a crew unit of 8, a battery of 3 is 12. They can add their fire to the fray and receive orders and add numbers for objective holding, and spread out to plug gaps from deep strikers while being safe behind their guns. Plus it looks cool as hell. Additionally it is a vehicle, and we will undoubtedly get multiple stratagems with the Codex that buff vehicles.

 

Yeah, the platform is most optimal right now, because FW doesn't know balance (especially with like 2 weeks notice to write rules), but that is likely to change once we get a full and proper ruleset.

[Feral_80]

Basilisk tank is cool now, I always field mine. Platform version is almost broken compared to the standard Basilik. Carriage is just not worth it.

 

Overall, as for the gun: it is quite reliable, but you will need at least 2 to dish out some good damage. Ideally, you want to fire it at tough multi-wound elite infantry. It will do reasonably good against light vehicles as well, and even do something (but don't expect wonders) against tough vehicles. Not the right weapon to stop a Land Raider though.

[Withershadow]

Carriage is awesome, and works quite well.  I got 4.  Don't knock it till you try it.

[Feral_80]

What's so awesome about it, except the looks?

 

It is a more expensive and more vulnerable version of the platform.

[duz_]

Seems like were focusing on the finer points of which artillery platform is better, perhaps we can spin that off into another topic.

This one is primarily for the Basilisk. Although it is interesting to see that the artillery pieces are considered T7, but open top chassis like the Wyvren and Basilisk are only T6, certainly a discrepancy there!

[Withershadow]

What's so awesome about it, except the looks?

 

It is a more expensive and more vulnerable version of the platform.

If you read the post right above yours, I listed all the things that are good about it.

[micahwc]

I used Marx brand German 88mm flak guns for my earthshaker batteries. I got them at Hobbybunker.com. Work computer wont let me cut/paste the link, but they are $7 each and look pretty convincing. I extended the barrel on mine with a wooden dowel and added a larger gun shield, but that was it. Compared to a basilisk, the Marx model is a little taller, and the gun is larger, so I don't think there could ever be an argument for modeling for an advantage.

[Tirak]

I used Marx brand German 88mm flak guns for my earthshaker batteries. I got them at Hobbybunker.com. Work computer wont let me cut/paste the link, but they are $7 each and look pretty convincing. I extended the barrel on mine with a wooden dowel and added a larger gun shield, but that was it. Compared to a basilisk, the Marx model is a little taller, and the gun is larger, so I don't think there could ever be an argument for modeling for an advantage.

 

Sadly it seems Tourney's are tightening their belts. Adepticon released draft rules for the Team Tournament and have explicitly banned the use of Proxy for Forgeworld units.

[Withershadow]

Are they going to start submerging FW models in water to check if they are recasts too? I guess you gotta pay to play, literally.

[CoffeeGrunt]

IMO proxying/converting/kitbashing is a core part of the hobby, and often results in better looking stuff than what's available for sale.

[Thoridon]

I don't see any problem with an event sponsored by GW/FW saying no 3rd party proxies. I know the Earthshaker platform is unavailable right now but hey.

 

I'm also looking at using some scale artillery models as artillery platorms but with the Catachan news yesterday there's a big bonus there for running the Basilisk (and I already have 1 Catachan Basilisk).

 

I'll see what the other regimental doctrines are but it's highly likely I'll add 1-2 more Basilisks to my Catachan detachment for a long range battery getting rerolls on the number of shots and then rerolling 1s to hit with Harker nearby.

[Tyr13]

3rd party conversions kind of makes sense, but what about conversions of GW kits?

[PliskinAJ]

I have never had a problem with converted GW kits. For the basilisks both carriage and platform I have GW earthsakers on top but but scratch built the bottom half on both kits. 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

GW is turning up at events and offering prize support etc, but Adepticon at least is certainly not a "GW event". I think a blanket ban on 'proxies' is really disappointing and I hope that doesn't catch on at other events. Further, at Adepticon and several other big events, many of the 3rd party sellers are among the sponsors and/or vendors.

 

Funny that Trenchworx is a sponsor and on the front page of Adepticon and they sell some decent Howitzer proxies...

 

I also love kitbashing and using whatever piece suits the model. At the very least I hope they further define the rules for that, for example I have a FW turret with a 3rd party gun barrel (vanquisher proxy)... or mostly GW/FW models with 3rd party heads etc... the tournament scene freak-outs drive me crazy sometimes.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Altasmurf]

The main problem is that tournaments take themselves to serious. That's not a bad thing if that's your style. I can easily see in a hyper competitive event that my opponent wants to look across the table and know for sure what a unit is. By disallowing conversions you create a readily identifiable unit that does require any questioning or wasting time.

 

Now tourneys are not my scene anymore, and I'm sure lots of tournament players love a good conversion. But when the games are going and the dice are rolling I can easily understand a no conversion rule.

[Withershadow]

I understand the restriction on "proxies".  That used to mean scratch-built and custom models that still used GW parts, but with the 3rd party market being so expansive, it now 99% of the time means just a 3rd party model.  So I understand completely why 40K events who have (or hope for) official GW involvement would have nothing to do with that.  That would also include using Victoria Miniature guard lines.

 

I'm sure the restriction applies to using entire models, rather than using the occasional head or weapon bit.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Withershadow

[WarriorFish]

This topic is about basilisks, please take the proxy discussion elsewhere. Thanks.

[micahwc]

I like the idea of Basilisks as I used to shoot cannons for a living (it was like working for the circus), but I think the value from Earthshaker Batteries is too great to ignore. How often do you move your Basilisks in a game? Ideally you never move them and just shoot constantly without the -1 to hit, and an Earthshaker battery can do that for less points and no degrading profile, while being able to shoot as its engaged in close combat.

 

Personally, I think Basilisks should ignore the -1 for moving and firing heavy weapons, just because modern self propelled artillery pieces can move and still shoot accurately. Paladins can be ready to fire within seconds of stopping. They also can and will fire directly at targets without any issues. Direct fire artillery is more devastating than indirect fire, as you will tailor your rounds to your target. In real life, if you have enemy troops in the open that you can direct fire on, you put a timed fuse on your HE round, and set the timer for fractions of a second. The round will explode shortly after firing, and the fragments will still have their forward momentum. Basically you turn your HE round into a 100 pound shotgun shell. Against an armored target that you can see to direct fire, you put a point detonation fuse on your HE, and put a full powder charge behind it (the same powder charge you would use to shoot something 30 kilometers away). I know from experience that hitting a tank with one of these will cause the tank to get airborne.

 

I think a way to set the Basilisk apart from the Earthshaker batteries/carriages would be to give them a special rule with their earthshakers regarding direct fire against vehicles and troops, or different ammo types for the Earthshaker. Something like "HE Fuse" uses standard profile, "PD fuse" is more specialized against anti-armor, and "Timed Fuse" for more specialization against light infantry.

 

I know I can't expect to incorporate "realism" into my fantasy game of daemons and space elves, but I feel the Basilisk needs something to set it apart from the Forgeworld variants.

[Altasmurf]

The biggest issue is forgeworld. GW doesn't design around forge world and they don't really care what forge world does. And forge world seems to either underpower or overpower.

 

As for basilisk, never underestimate the ability to move. Only the poorest of opponent will not figure out a way to pressure your backline. Even late game objective grabbing might need that bassie to roll out.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Taking the platforms saves points for units you can use to apply said pressure, though.

[FallenSoldiers]

If the AP-3 rumors are true I'm going to be so happy!

[Withershadow]

Platforms are inferior to Carriages as of this Codex. Basilisk platforms are not vehicles and we are getting stratagems for vehicles. 9 extra points per 4 Infantry models is a pretty nice trade off, especially if taking multiple guns. You basically a Guard unit for cheaper than conscripts and regular stats and ability to take orders.

[Tirak]

Earthshaker Batteries cannot be stopped from firing, nor do they stop units from firing on someone assaulting an earthshaker. With the new vehicle strategems, it's a toss up possibly, though I still lean to the Battery for consistent damage and cheaper price.

[Withershadow]

I wonder if Valhallans car recycle them. The Infantry can be brought back and the rules say they must be set up with their equipment (in this case the big guns).

[Guardsman Bob]

If the AP-3 rumors are true I'm going to be so happy!

It would seriously make the Basilisk/Manictore thing more of a debate rather than the completely one sided thing it is now.