Claws and Effect Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I will be playing in a smaller tournament coming up October 21st. The following is the list I have in mind. I'm emphasizing boots on the ground over fancy toys on this one. Mostly because I don't actually possess a lot of fancy toys. As such, my squads are all 10-strong where I have the models to do it. I might add a couple more twin claw Vanguard if I can get them repainted in time (not counting on that though) I'm also opting for versatility over specialization. I don't want to load up my list with anti-tank and end up facing 3 Conscript spam lists. So where possible I took the most versatile option available. Since I doubt I'll be lighting things up with lots of kills, I'll be mostly playing to the mission. To that end I'll probably combat squad my Tacticals and secure objectives with them. The rules I know of thus far are: 2,000 points, must be battle-forged, no more than 1 of a given FW unit (So I could take a Leviathan and a Mortis, but not 2 Mortis), max of 3 detachments that cannot repeat. I assume that last bit is so the armies with really cheap Troops can't run 3 Battalions for a CP advantage. Here's what I'm looking at so far: ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [71 PL, 1331pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Chaplain [6 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Raven's FuryTechmarine [4 PL, 69pts]: Plasma pistol, Power axe, Servo-arm+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 108pts]: 4x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleTactical Squad [9 PL, 168pts]. 7x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gunTactical Squad [9 PL, 179pts]. 7x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun+ Fast Attack +Assault Squad [11 PL, 184pts]: Jump Pack. 7x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power fist. Space Marine w/Special Weapon. . Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol. Space Marine w/Special Weapon. . Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [11 PL, 230pts]. 5x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 303pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [31 PL, 651pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonSternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 169pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-melta. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power fistVanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 167pts]: Jump Pack. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield++ Total: [102 PL, 1982pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Since you'll get this message from a mod eventually, I would suggest you remove the points values on your post. The problem I see with always picking the most versatile option is that you don't actually get to specialize with anything. Also, the assault squad seems like a waste of points to me that could be used to add some ablative wounds to the Devastator squad so it could specialize a bit more. 5 Frag missiles won't make or break your goal of being versatile, and you're definitely missing some hard hitting ranged anti-tank. I'm a pretty big newbie, so I may not be making sense though lol Edited September 26, 2017 by Lemondish SanguinaryGuardsman 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Last I checked, points for a unit as a whole were okay, just no points for individual upgrades. I can't add more ablative wounds to the Devastator squad. It's already at 10. Since my list lacks any kind of transport option other than the Stormraven past the first turn, I figured the assault squad could be pressed into service as mobile objective grabbers. I was considering just running them bare bones to keep them as cheap as possible, but you never know when plasma pistols will come in handy. Now, I might be able to squeeze a single tank into the list. What Rhino-chassis tank would people recommend? Land Raider is right out. I won't have the points or cash for it. Damo1701 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Since you'll get this message from a mod eventually, I would suggest you remove the points values on your post. The problem I see with always picking the most versatile option is that you don't actually get to specialize with anything. Also, the assault squad seems like a waste of points to me that could be used to add some ablative wounds to the Devastator squad so it could specialize a bit more. 5 Frag missiles won't make or break your goal of being versatile, and you're definitely missing some hard hitting ranged anti-tank. I'm a pretty big newbie, so I may not be making sense though lol Spending over 180 points on assault marines that have 3 plasma pistol shots is not good. If you want plasma pistol action go with vanguard vets. For 125 points you can get 5 pistoleers. They have more shots and more attacks in CC for 50 less points. Alternative 2: For 180 points you could have a bigass squad of heavy bolters devs with ablative wounds and a cherub.. spewing out tons of shots and hellfire rounds at 36 inch range. That would be vastly better imo. Alternative 3: 3 Inceptors... nice and simple. 18 shots a turn and they are fast/can deep strike/about as durable as 8 assault marines/cheap on ebay. What is not to like about this? Alternative 4: Add another sternguard squad/vangaurd squad. More shooty alphastrike goodness? Bottom line... those assault marines gotta go! Practically anything that costs under 180 points is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 So should I just throw any assault marines I have in the trash then, since everyone says they are anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I'm actually being serious with that, not just snarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polkadragon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 So should I just throw any assault marines I have in the trash then, since everyone says they are anyway? Or you could do what I do, and use them as Vanguard Veterans SanguinaryGuardsman 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Updated version. I have most of what I need built and painted already. Just need to finish some Devastators, wait for the turret to arrive for the Whirlwind, and wait for the Callidus to show up and get her painted as well. It will be close, but I think I can get it done in time. Oh, and I'll be using Brother-Captain Stern for the Inquisitor. It won't let me do it in Battlescribe, but the Inquisitor and Assassins will be in a Vanguard detachment. Losing keywords doesn't hurt in that case because the Inquisitor only cares about the Imperium keyword and the Assassins are all lone operatives anyway. ++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [14 PL, 235pts] +++ Elites +Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 80pts]Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts]Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Inquisition) [7 PL, 105pts] +++ HQ +Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 105pts]: Force sword, Storm bolter. Psyker: 3 - Dominate++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [93 PL, 1657pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]Lieutenants [5 PL, 78pts]. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack, Teeth of Terra+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife. 4x Scout w/Combat KnifeScout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleTactical Squad [9 PL, 164pts]. 7x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonSternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 169pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-melta. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power fistVanguard Veteran Squad [16 PL, 197pts]: Jump Pack. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcherWhirlwind [5 PL, 100pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 303pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Total: [114 PL, 1997pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Edited September 27, 2017 by Claws and Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 So should I just throw any assault marines I have in the trash then, since everyone says they are anyway? Convert them to vanguard! Or use them as painting practice models. Or just f*ck it and ignore us forum dwellers and use them anyways. Trashing them is inconceivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I came up with another version that I think I'm going to go with. Some unusual choices in here, but I can explain my reasoning. The overall logic is that the proposed list requires the absolute least amount of work on my part in order to get it table ready. Since I'm changing my work schedule in the next couple weeks, this is a pretty important point. It has more Troops choices, with 4 units instead of 3. One of those units is CC Scouts. I realize they aren't very good, but they're ready to go and cheap. They will probably camp an objective somewhere to force my opponent to remove them. Or be a suicide unit to tie something up for a turn. Or maybe even kill something, stranger things have happened. I switched up my Tacticals to 2 5-man squads with a heavy bolter in each. More dakka, and with 3 shots the -1 for moving won't hurt as bad. Added a couple bodies to my Vanguard squad. This will require minimal work on my part. I switched my Devastators to 4 plasma cannons. I know, I know. Lascannons are better. But I already have the plasma guys ready to go, and lascannons and missile launchers need some work yet. I'll probably have the Captain babysit them to (hopefully) keep them from blowing themselves up. Not the best anti-tank, but S8 is the same as I was getting out of the missile launchers before so it's kind of a wash in that regard. D3 shots at S7-S8 should do better against infantry than D6 shots at S4. Brother-Captain Stern is sitting in a Simple Green bath now. After he's stripped I'll file off the Grey Knights insignia and use him to represent my Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armor. He will be the HQ for the Vanguard detachment made up by the Assassins. Since Inquisitors don't really care about keywords other than Imperium and Assassins work alone anyway, I didn't figure that detachment would hurt me any. Just waiting on the Callidus to arrive in the mail so I can get her painted up. Waiting on the turret I ordered for the Whirlwind to arrive from Kromlech. That particular tank will serve double duty as either a Whirlwind or Razorback as circumstances dictate. I eliminated the Assault squad. I'll be doing another list later on that makes heavy use of them, but for now they can hang out in the box. Here's the list: ++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [14 PL, 235pts] +++ Elites +Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 80pts]Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts]Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Inquisition) [7 PL, 105pts] +++ HQ +Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 105pts]: Force sword, Storm bolter. Psyker: 3 - Dominate++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [94 PL, 1660pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Captain [5 PL, 81pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword, The Primarch's WrathKayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleScout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife. 4x Scout w/Combat KnifeTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolterTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonSternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 169pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-melta. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power fistVanguard Veteran Squad [16 PL, 212pts]: Jump Pack, Melta bombs. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [8 PL, 164pts]. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannonWhirlwind [5 PL, 100pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 303pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Total: [115 PL, 2000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I'm not going to be tabling anyone, so I'll need to maximize my strengths and play to the mission. I'll have 7 CP to work with, 1 fairly resilient psyker, and a Callidus to try and force people to spend more of their CP to do things. My biggest challenge will be resisting the impulse to pour a lot of attacks into things I can't kill. My Whirlwind will be parked somewhere at the back of my deployment zone. Not needing LoS and 72" range means I can stick it somewhere it will be protected and won 't have to move it around to acquire targets. Not sure who I'm sticking in the Stormraven yet. Since this will be my first 3 games since 2008, I fully expect to have my arse handed to me. So, more experienced players. What do you think I'll do well against, and what will I really struggle against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo1701 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm not going to be tabling anyone, so I'll need to maximize my strengths and play to the mission. I'll have 7 CP to work with, 1 fairly resilient psyker, and a Callidus to try and force people to spend more of their CP to do things. My biggest challenge will be resisting the impulse to pour a lot of attacks into things I can't kill. My Whirlwind will be parked somewhere at the back of my deployment zone. Not needing LoS and 72" range means I can stick it somewhere it will be protected and won 't have to move it around to acquire targets. Not sure who I'm sticking in the Stormraven yet. Since this will be my first 3 games since 2008, I fully expect to have my arse handed to me. So, more experienced players. What do you think I'll do well against, and what will I really struggle against? I've had some success with the following: Strike from the Shadows: Shrike Vanguard Veterans Devastators - you'll love this bit... Tacticals x1 (Optional) Transport in Storm Raven: Contemptor Dreadnought Sternguard Veterans Inquisitor (Optional) Now, why do I suggest spending a command point of striking the Devastators from the sahdows? Simple! You want them where they can do the most good, right? 9/10 times, you will finish deploying before your opponent, meaning they can save their HVTs until your biggest threats are deployed. Using SftS on your devastators gives you the option to find the best spot for them that your opponent can't easily counter. Even if you do deploy them in your own deployment zone. The Storm Raven and it's cargo should be able to reach and support Shrike and your Vanguard fairly easily, but, that's another reason for having a tactical squad using SftS, as extra backup or to grab a relic/objective early on. Just some ideas to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sultansean Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Don't underestimate the usefulness of things like scouts acting as chaff. My last game they stood in front of my land raider forcing a blood thirster to charge them instead. One survived and then my turn I fell back and lit the blood thirster up. Just gotta watch that assaulting units can't use their consolidation move to get within 1" of the unit you are screening. And if you want to use assault marines I would say user them! Just because they are not optimal on paper doesn't mean they won't be effective on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Thanks for the vote of confidence in the assault squad. But I think I like the Assassins better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Don't underestimate the usefulness of things like scouts acting as chaff. My last game they stood in front of my land raider forcing a blood thirster to charge them instead. One survived and then my turn I fell back and lit the blood thirster up. Just gotta watch that assaulting units can't use their consolidation move to get within 1" of the unit you are screening. And if you want to use assault marines I would say user them! Just because they are not optimal on paper doesn't mean they won't be effective on the table. Yeah but some units are more "not optimal" than others. ASMs are probably the worst unit in the codex and really have no place in tournament lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 I'll figure out something for the ASMs. Just not right now. I'm fully expecting to lose all 3 games at this. Will be my first actual games since early 2008, and in a competitive environment no less. I'm looking to have some fun and meet other players in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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