Primarch Book 8 - Jaghatai Khan: Warhawk of Chogoris

[Huggtand]

The order is "Awaiting packing", hurry up BL 

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

I dunno, Yesugei was always pretty clear-eyed about the fact that they were drawing on the warp. They know it's treacherous and home to actively malicious entities, but tragically couldn't get the Thousand Sons to realise this and exercise restraint or moderation.

 

The shame is really that other legions dismiss the Chogorian ways as savagery or mysticism when in fact it's an eminently pragmatic and moderate approach to dealing with the warp and psykana. That Magnus and the wider Imperium don't understand this for completely opposite reasons is a source of frustration. Yesugei was hyper-aware and fairly prickly about how the IH and Salamanders in Scars perceived his weather magic as primitive storm-scrying.

 

That might be a reason to explain why the Khan decided after Ullanor to leave the Imperium. Tha librarian project was in a way, an attempt by the Khan to mix imperial institutions with chogorian traditions, to have his culture mold at least a small part of an imperium he so disagrees with. When Nikea put an official end to the librarians, he might have concluded that no matter how much he tried, the imperium and him will always be at odds, no matter the subject.

 

I hope this book delves into this themes.

 

 

You both have good and interesting points. I too hope this book gives us some insight into the Great Khan's thoughts on these issues.

 

@Sandlemad - I agree.... I think the Khan and the White Scars clearly understood the nature of the psychic gift and it's dangers and benefits.

 

On your point about the other Legions' dismissing the WS as backwards, they were definitely wiser and more sophisticated than the Imperium at large gave them credit. But, I think in a way the Great Khan used this to maintain a certain autonomy within the Empire. The disregard others had for the WS was certainly a source of frustration, but it had its benefits as well 

 

@Ashur - I think you made a good observation about the Great Khan's involvement in the Librarian Project. Chogorian traditions and the WS understanding of the warp would have served well as a moderating influence within all of the psycher programs.

 

As for the Khan's views on the Imperium go, I don't think he disagreed with the general principals and idea of the Imperium of Man. I think his fundamental disagreement lay within the means. He saw the compromises, heavy handed bureaucracy and other hypocrisies as threats to not only the freedom of his culture but the freedom and health of the Imperium itself. He saw these things more clearly than any of his brothers.

 

The Great Khan is a very interesting character, and this book has potential of being the best of the Primarch series. In spite of myself, I have high hopes 

[b1soul]

Anyone care to spoiler with tags?

[Indefragable]

Just finished Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa. Has an interesting quip about Jaghatai:

 

There are only 15 Primarchs around (rediscovered and/or alive?) during the story. Fulgrim mentions how he, The Emperor, Horus, the Lion, and their "new brother" Jagahatai go to Molech and bring that world to a "fairly uneventful" compliance (hmmmm).

 

Fulgrim: "I met our new brother."

Ferrus: "Oh? What's he like?"

Fulgrim: "He's so.....feral. You'd like him, brother."

Ferrus: <cracks a smile for the second time in the entire book> "You do know me, brother."

 

Lots of ambiguity there, especially since--based on what happens in the book on Ferrus--it could imply that the Khan is...unrelenting.

 

 

[bluntblade]

It's also potentially pretty accurate with Fulgrim's misreading of Jaghatai as a savage.

[TheRealMcCagh]

I think in Scars someone makes a parallel between the Wolves and Scars and a White Scar legionnaire sort of resents the comparison, saying they aren't savages. It fits that outsiders see them as such. That and Fulgrim taunting the Khan at Ullanor about his home world suggests Fulgrim's view may be a little off. "I'd fight you on Chogoris if you built a palace to keep the dust of my armor" or something like that.

[bluntblade]

Pretty much. Also the EC in PoH keep referring to the Scars as savages.

[b1soul]

Scars have some of the savagery of the Wolves,some of the flamboyance of the EC, and some of the refinement of the TSons.

 

Mix that all up, throw in various Asiatic influences chiefly Mongol, along with Wraight's philosophy of freedom, war as the expression of a legion's soul, indulgence in the thrill of speed anf combat...and you get one of the most interesting legions out there.

 

I think every legion has this potential if it has authours sufficiently skilled to tap that potential.

[bluntblade]

One day, the Raven Guard and Salamanders willful find an author who does them justice.

 

Hopefully there'll be a Badab War series handled by Wraight, French, AD-B, RobMac, Guymer and some good newcomers. That'd give the Salamanders a chance to be comparatively nice chaps whilst still acknowledging they serve a vicious, bleak regime.

[Indefragable]

Scars have some of the savagery of the Wolves,some of the flamboyance of the EC, and some of the refinement of the TSons.

 

Mix that all up, throw in various Asiatic influences chiefly Mongol, along with Wraight's philosophy of freedom, war as the expression of a legion's soul, indulgence in the thrill of speed anf combat...and you get one of the most interesting legions out there.

 

I think every legion has this potential if it has authours sufficiently skilled to tap that potential.

 

Exactly.

 

I just thought it was an interesting comparison in the Ferrus book since...

 

It basically says that Ferrus' trademark is overkill: a bolter magazine is meant to be emptied into the enemy, regardless of whether there are 30 enemies or 1.  Tanks should always be firing their big guns. Fleet assets should always be firing all ordnance at a target...there is no such thing as proportionality. Every tool should be employed to its utmost threshold.

Nothing should be held back.

 

...so taken in that light, it's a different perspective on the Khan then I think we're used to. Then again, Fulgrim is the exact opposite, the master of "minimal possible effort for maximum possible gain" so it's no wonder he might lump the two together.

[1ncarnadine]

Finished this last night! I enjoyed it well enough. So I'm going to be super harsh while I criticize the heck out of it. There are also irreverent spoilers ahead and a summary for anyone hungry for it.

 

I'll just get this out of the way and admit that I think this is one of the weakest things I've read by Chris Wraight. Again, let me point out that I still enjoyed the read and blew through it at lightning speed. White Scars Speed! Chris's White Scars are always fun to spend time with. But when I take a step back and think on the whole read, there were a lot of things that didn't quite work for me. At times it felt more like a series of short stories, loosely connected by the thread of the Librarius question. It works well in some places, not so much in others. I'll criticize as I summarize:

 

1) Terra, M30.879: The Khan and his first Astartes-elevated Chogorians come to Terra so that the Khan may meet the Emperor, as all of his brothers before him have done. We actually jump in just after this meeting. The Khan isn't so stoked at the idea of the Imperial Truth, but an astropath convinces Yesugei to convince the Khan to meet Malcador. Malcador convinces the Khan to go with it, but the Khan still has reservations. And we see the early construction of the Swordstorm. We also see the Terran Vth Legion, and there's some neat stuff on how they're more rigid and heavily mechanized. Anyway, the Khan can't stop moving and leaves as soon as he can.

 

I should mention, we also meet Giyahun, an important, high-ranking Chogorian who doesn't appear in Scars or Path of Heaven, so he's totally going to die before the end of this book. Spoiler: he does. The other Chogorians are Yesugei and Hasik. If this book has main characters, they're definitely the Khan, Hasik, and Yesugei, but there's still a lot of bouncing around to other perspectives despite the limited space. It's a problem. We don't really spend any time with Giyahun, so when he does bite it, it's hard to feel anything.
 

2) Hoadh, M30.884: The White Scars enforce their first compliance against some psychic crab-people who have (stop me if you've heard this one before) brutally enslaved and twisted a human population to their own ends. Jetbikes! Action! The Khan believes he's been assigned this compliance as a lesson from Malcador, to see the warp misused and show him the value of the Imperial Truth. Anyway, the Khan can't stop moving and leaves as soon as he can.

Afterwards, Sanguinius catches up to him and they talk about the Librarius and how it will be opposed and at some point sides will need to be chosen. Sanguinius wants the Khan to put in a good word about the Librarius with Horus, if the Khan ever gets the chance. Anyway, the Khan can't stop moving and leaves as soon as he can.
 

3) Chogoris, M30.898: Just some neat stuff on how the Chogorian culture breeds even-tempered warriors. We see their fortress monastery and how the Scars have walled it off from the Chogorian people in order to preserve their nature and freedom. Later on this is directly contrasted with Magnus's views, but I'll get to that. The Khan visits and is like "ah yeah this is that good home world fresh air." We don't actually see the Khan leave here, but he can't stop moving, so I assume he does so as soon as he can.

 

4) Gar-Ban-Gar, M30.906: The Khan and his Legion fight alongside the Luna Wolves against the Orks. Hasik fights alongside Captain Rheor of the XVIth and they develop mutual respect (uh-oh), and we also jump into the POV of a stormseer who probably should have been Yesugei. There's what I assume to be an awkward rewrite moment later where Chris realized Yesugei couldn't be here according to previous timeline placements, and he even admits there were character placement issues like this in the quick interview he did with Track of Words. Not-Yesugei meets a Luna Wolves Librarian named Jereth and their attitudes are compared and contrasted a little.

The Orks are using weirdboyz to empower their hordes. More jetbikes! Action! It's not going well until the Scars deploy their Stormseers, and they use their powers to make the weirdboyz lose control. The Orks turn on each other and get wiped, and the Scars get to show off their Librarius to the Luna Wolves. 

But there's still the big Ork stronghold. The Khan deploys the keshig, more action, Giyahun predictably dies, and we get a Khan fan-service fight scene with the Final Boss Ork. Hastur Sejanus is here, too. Hasik bitterly reflects on the battle and his place in the Imperium, is approached by Rheor, and we see the start of what will be the White Scars involvement in the warrior lodges.

 

Against his usual pattern, the Khan doesn't actually leave as soon as he can, as he stops to mourn whatshisname... uh, Giyahun. He talks with Sejanus, and as they part the Khan says (for the first time) "When [Horus] calls, I will answer."

 

5) Baal, M30.908: The Khan arrives on Baal for a meeting with the Angel and the Crimson King. There's some cool stuff on the Blood Angels here, and how they're actually tiring out the White Scars by asking for duels. Yesugei calls them 'restless,' which sounds funny coming from a White Scar, but it's clearly a different kind of restlessness. My interpretation is that the Scars are inherently motivated to find freedom and independence, while the Blood Angels are constantly engaging in duels and art to distract themselves from their thirst.

 

The meeting with the Primarchs is pretty fun, although unfortunately very short. Magnus is arrogant, the Khan is wary, and Sanguinius is the hopeful mediator. Magnus is a bit of a pretentious dick here, and kind of digs at Chogorian culture and its apparent simplicity. He thinks that, eventually, technology and knowledge will catch up with Chogoris and change it, and that the Khan should embrace that before it can happen. The Khan is conservative, doesn't think there needs to be any change, and rebukes Magnus. In the end they agree to leave on good terms, and that they'll need a plan to safeguard the Librarius. But there really doesn't seem to be a unified plan and the Khan leaves on a bitter note, as soon as he can, because he constantly needs to move forward.

 

6) Ullanor, M31.000: It's post-celebration, so none of that to see here. Yesugei briefly meets Jereth and sort-of-not-really recognizes him because Not-Yesugei was actually the one that met Jereth, and this is that awkward moment I mentioned earlier. Jereth seems kind of haunted and apologizes that he couldn't help with the Librarius. He explains that Horus realized the power of the Librarius at Gar-Ban-Gar, and also realized that he couldn't take sides due to politics... meaning Horus wouldn't take sides so he could keep as many Primarchs on his side as possible. It's not the first time that it's been implied that perhaps Horus was always manipulating the other Primarchs to 'his own side,' possibly even subconsciously. 

 

Also there's a throwaway line about Not-Yesugei dying off-screen in the last century, I guess. OK... And Yesugei meets Ilya, because I guess that had to happen. Horus meets with the Khan. It's brief but interesting. The Khan states again that when Horus calls, he will answer, but it's strained. The Khan can already see there is now distance between Horus and his other brothers. He's still not impressed with the Imperium, and just wants independence and freedom. He wonders at what point there will be no more clear foes to pursue, and there's a lot of heavy Heresy foreshadowing. And then of course the Khan can't stop moving so he leaves for Chondax as soon as he can. 

 

 

This book is mostly White Scars fan-service, plain and simple. It's not really telling us anything we didn't know, just reinforcing some core concepts on the Khan and his Legion's character and nature. I also feel like a lot of the content of this book is going to reappear in some form in the Vth Legion section of the upcoming FW black book, Malevolence, so there's that. But at least for me, I didn't find it as emotionally resonant as Perturabo. I didn't have quite as much fun as I had with Fulgrim. And it didn't illuminate a new perspective on old lore like Leman Russ. It was good though, and I would easily recommend it to anyone who's really into the White Scars, Primarch inter-personal relationships, or the Blood Angels and Luna Wolves (as there's actually a fair bit on both of those Legions here).

[b1soul]

Good to see a more critical review...can't wait to receive my copy and check whether I agree

 

I'm a WS fan so any "fan service" might please me

[Knockagh]

Just finished this. LetsYouDown has said it all really in his excellent review, don’t have anything to add to that, I would agree with everything he says in it.

I think this was a wasted opportunity to show a pre imperial Khan uniting the warring tribes.

[Manchu warlord]

Does Qin Xa appear in the book?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Does Qin Xa appear in the book?

 

Yes.

 

 

Just finished the book.Letsyoudown's review is pretty accurate. 

 

I loved the meeting on Baal with Magnus, Sanguinius and the Khan. With what we know as readers we all know Magnus is sooo doomed, and that scene shows exactly why.

Magnus is so arrogant he makes Fulgrim look humble, which is no easy feat.

[Marshal Loss]

I concur with the above, LetsYouDown's post is a very good summary. Finished reading it, and overall, it's a great book, although it doesn't really offer anything over and above the existing White Scars books, and frankly takes away some of the mystery/suspense (although as it's meant to be read last, that's not a problem).

 

What I will say though is that this is probably, in my mind, the best story detailing how Legions changed once they recovered their Primarchs. Wraight masterfully works through the changes wrought on the Scars by the Khan, and it felt well paced - unlike many of the other Primarch novels.The coverage of the Khan's relationship with Magnus/Sanguinius was also well done, and it's a good foil to other depictions of Magnus/Sanguinius.

 

As we all knew when we saw that Wraight was doing the Khan again, it's well worth a purchase.

[Draakur]

I want it! Why no e-book yet?!

[Fire Golem]

I want it! Why no e-book yet?!

It’s not out til July, only the limited one is out at the moment.

[b1soul]

I think this was a wasted opportunity to show a pre imperial Khan uniting the warring tribes.

 

Not sure I think that's a tale worth a primarch novella...would read a lot like the real Genghis Khan's bio

[Sandlemad]

 

I think this was a wasted opportunity to show a pre imperial Khan uniting the warring tribes.

 

Not sure I think that's a tale worth a primarch novella...would read a lot like the real Genghis Khan's bio

 

 

Gotta second this. The primarch's homeworld stories are often the most well-worn bits of their pre-heresy history and are largely just variations on the 'rise of a great leader in ancient/fantasy wherever'. The Khan's, more than most, is basically a carbon-copy of Genghis Khan. We could pretty much just go read Conn Iggulden's books.

[b1soul]

The Khan is probably the primarch most closely based on a historical figure...I think his involvement with the founding of the Librarius was a good choice of subject matter

 

Will reserve judgment of the execution, but expect Wraight's typical high quality

[Draakur]

 

I want it! Why no e-book yet?!

It’s not out til July, only the limited one is out at the moment.

Correct. That’s what prompted my question, not the answer to my question ;)

[malika666]

Hmm, is it just me or are there some serious similarities between the Khan, Angron, and Mortarion? Each seem to crave freedom and independence which they are denied by the Emperor...

[bluntblade]

Scars flags up the parallels between Mortarion and the Khan. Mortarion wants freedom from his role, Jaghatai wants more freedom within it, I'd say.

[Knockagh]

 

 

 

 

I think this was a wasted opportunity to show a pre imperial Khan uniting the warring tribes.

Not sure I think that's a tale worth a primarch novella...would read a lot like the real Genghis Khan's bio

Gotta second this. The primarch's homeworld stories are often the most well-worn bits of their pre-heresy history and are largely just variations on the 'rise of a great leader in ancient/fantasy wherever'. The Khan's, more than most, is basically a carbon-copy of Genghis Khan. We could pretty much just go read Conn Iggulden's books.

Your probably right. It was Igguldens books I was thinking of. The similarities with Genghis at times feel lazy. Although that’s a GW legacy thing and no fault of Mr Wraight who has done wonders with the WS.