Tallarn doctrine

[TheShredder]

 

 

With the Tallarn strategem, Ambush, can you choose 3 infantry units that are mounted in chimeras or do you have to choose the chimeras separately from the squads? Eg: 3 squads of mounted infantry inside their chimeras and the ambush the chimeras fire using the Tallarn doctrine and then next turn the infantry pop out and chimeras move and fire.

 

The rules for transports state that when you set them up you can choose to start infantry units embarked in them.

 

The Ambush stratagem allows you to set up transports in reserve.

 

RAW, it seems like you could pick 3 Chimeras with the Ambush rule, and then start units embarked in them when you set them up in reserve.

 

 

Alright, I am following the logic process here. When I am declaring the use of the strategem, I mark/point out the infantry units which are going to be embarked on their dedicated transports (Chimeras in my case) and keep them to the side/reserve.

 

Is that a clear and concise methodology?

 

 

I think when you use the stratagem, you'd just nominate the vehicles.

 

Then, during deployment, each time you chose to put one of those nominated vehicles into reserve, you'd also declare which infantry (if any) are going to be embarked in it.

 

I don't think it makes a huge difference, to be honest, and you're welcome to declare it earlier. However, RAW, I don't believe you have to declare which units are embarking on which transports until you actually set them up (whether on the field or in reserve).

Edited October 19, 2017 by TheShredder

[narcolepticltd]

 

 

 

With the Tallarn strategem, Ambush, can you choose 3 infantry units that are mounted in chimeras or do you have to choose the chimeras separately from the squads? Eg: 3 squads of mounted infantry inside their chimeras and the ambush the chimeras fire using the Tallarn doctrine and then next turn the infantry pop out and chimeras move and fire.

 

The rules for transports state that when you set them up you can choose to start infantry units embarked in them.

 

The Ambush stratagem allows you to set up transports in reserve.

 

RAW, it seems like you could pick 3 Chimeras with the Ambush rule, and then start units embarked in them when you set them up in reserve.

 

 

Alright, I am following the logic process here. When I am declaring the use of the strategem, I mark/point out the infantry units which are going to be embarked on their dedicated transports (Chimeras in my case) and keep them to the side/reserve.

 

Is that a clear and concise methodology?

 

 

I think when you use the stratagem, you'd just nominate the vehicles.

 

Then, during deployment, each time you chose to put one of those nominated vehicles into reserve, you'd also declare which infantry (if any) are going to be embarked in it.

 

I don't think it makes a huge difference, to be honest, and you're welcome to declare it earlier. However, RAW, I don't believe you have to declare which units are embarking on which transports until you actually set them up (whether on the field or in reserve).

 

 

I'd lean more to counting each unit - unless it's a unit put into reserves that has it's own dedicated transport... for example - an infantry squad out flanks, embarked in their chimera - one unit ; a trojan outflanks with a sws embarked - two units. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Do Dedicated Transports work like that still? (I.e., bought for a particular unit?)

[TheShredder]

Do Dedicated Transports work like that still? (I.e., bought for a particular unit?)

 

No.

[Harrowmaster]

Do Dedicated Transports work like that still? (I.e., bought for a particular unit?)

 

No, you get one dedicated transport per other unit in the army, it's a bit funny cause it it lets you bring a chimera for a manticore

[CoffeeGrunt]

I thought as much, so the idea that a unit could bring "its" Transport doesn't work, because that's not how taking them works anymore.

[TheShredder]

I thought as much, so the idea that a unit could bring "its" Transport doesn't work, because that's not how taking them works anymore.

 

Indeed. You don't have to tell your opponent what is in any particular transport until you actually set it up (whether on the field or in reserve).

[Silentz]

The Ambush rule says you can deploy any 3 TALLARN units. I initially thought this meant... chimera, squad, character... but not so sure now I've re-read the rules 

 

If you look at the standard rules for deployment, they say you can only deploy one unit at a time.

 

 

 

Referencing the rules for transports...

 

You must be able to deploy a Transport unit and put other units in it. 

[micahwc]

Last night I ambushed some Death Guard with a unit of 3 las-sentinels and 2 tank commander punishers. It was evil. Killed a rhino and a squad of plague marines in their first turn of shooting. Rhino had the VIP in it, so it helped me win the game as he had to run on foot after that.

[Reviler]

But it says ‘declare what units are embarked in transport when you set it up(deploy)’so you put the unit in ambush as a deployment and declare what units are in it at the same time. Not deploy it, then feed units into it as separate deployments. This is why people use transports to limit the number of deployments to gain first turn

[The Doctor Of War]

On the subject of what counts as a "unit" in regards to the Ambush stratagem, i have a query about Leman Russ squadrons. On their datasheet, it states that when they first deploy, the squadron is treated as a single unit...so does this apply when deploying with the Ambush stratagem? I can't imagine this would be GW's intent, and i wouldn't try it myself, but it's caused some debate in my gaming circle.

[Mitchverr]

If they didnt mean for you to take a squadron of tanks with the tallarn ambush stratagem when the army special order is tank related, warlord trait is tank related and doctrine is tank related, I personally think they would have limited it and said something along the lines of "or 3 vehicles" myself. But thats how I would personally read it because to be fair if they didnt see it coming, they didnt do a good job in developing how they want tallarn to be used which looks like an armoured lean mean fighting machine of tanks rushing around all over the place out of every table edge.

[The Doctor Of War]

Well the FAQ has put an end to the possibility of 9 Leman Russes turning up in an Ambush. Now only a single unit of the three can have the Vehicle keyword. Makes it a bit fairer.

[Mitchverr]

Personally I would never have gone beyond 4 vehicles myself, simply because of the major cost of points to do it, so doesnt really effect me much.

 

Kind of a shame that they effectively wiped out the ability to outflank light vehicles along with the tanks though, or heck, even using a platoon of light armour no russes (eg salamanders and hellhounds, or 2 squadrons of sentinels).

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah I was outflanking Hellhounds a lot, seems I'll have to rethink that strategy...

[sirparthos]

3 hellhounds in a squadron..the re written strategem says one unit of vehicles only, but thy have to be deployed within 6inches of each other.. dont you just hate it when you answer your own question before you ask it.. lol

[Withershadow]

I think the Conscript nerf improves the infantry portion of the Tallarn doctrine.  With the usual approach now becoming a bunch of infantry squads, being able to keep them advancing while firing everything except heavy weapons is a pretty solid perk.

[TheShredder]

Well the FAQ has put an end to the possibility of 9 Leman Russes turning up in an Ambush. Now only a single unit of the three can have the Vehicle keyword. Makes it a bit fairer.

 

It's a minor point, but I find it weird that they put that rule in brackets (which would normally indicate a reminder, rather than a rule-change).

[4ndroid]

Why can't three hellhounds as a single unit be used with the ambush ? possibly combined with two other non vehicle units?

Also 

Is a Tank Commander with a Unit of 3 LRs now illegal since both have the vehicle word? 

[CoffeeGrunt]

A Squadron is legal, but TC + Russes isn't because that's two separate units with VEHICLE.

[4ndroid]

A Squadron is legal, but TC + Russes isn't because that's two separate units with VEHICLE.

ok great, thats what I thought too! 

 

I guess my two victories with 5 LRs ambushing will be only for the history books 

 

since they put the kibosh on our kobayashi maru ambush

[Reviler]

I got my first game in last night since the codex. I Ambushed a tank commander in a vanquisher and 2 infantry squads and it worked very well.

One squad bubble wrapped the tank and the other just went for an obective. We played the cities of death mission in the rulebook  

Vanquisher came on a destroyed its target, bubble wrap died next turn, and tank engaged in combat. Fell back next turn then ordered to move again and advance and got back my lines. Moved 24" in a turn.

The one think I also took away is that you can come on any table edge, not just the sides. This is really useful.

[holydiver]

I'm planning on outflanking Melta Vets for anti-tank, but now I see that they have to get within 6 inches to maximize damage. Is there a way to get closer or do I have to wait a turn and hope the target doesn't move?

 

Also: can the <Infantry> unit deployed with Dagger of Tu'Sakh be deployed embarked on a transport?

Edited November 5, 2017 by holydiver

[Withershadow]

Valkyries let you drop out and move into range.

 

The dagger does not allow for transports.

[mertbl]

Valkaryies for a little more dangerous though with the faq change to "20 or more inches of movement triggers the roll of 1" now you either hover the valk or risk killing your guys.