Ultra Tactica: Taking on the Eldar

[Prot]

So after some difficult games this edition with Astra Militarum, and now something comes out that may test using Primaris even more so.... Eldar.

 

We see the across the board that the army is hard to hit, Alaitoc takes it to a new level. Cheap troops lead to easy Brigade builds.

 

Auto hitting weapons are a must. This makes me think of Whirlwinds (strategem) Flamers, Sternguard DP Heavy Flamers? etc. But overall... are we now looking at something that forces: Assault and Drop Pods?

 

What do you guys think?

Edited October 23, 2017 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

Up close models don't really need to worry about Alaitoc shenanigans so maybe Drop Pods will be important once again eh.

 

Assault forces certainly need to come back in. A multitude of Rhinos perhaps might also be useful.

 

Odd thing about Eldar is they aren't fragile like the background suggests. Not just the ones who can't be hit, but their tanks have more wounds than ours and even force fields that fire lasers at people!

[TrexPushups]

If they really catch on while using eldar vehicles the a few stalker tanks might become good meta-busters especially if Daemon primarchs with big flappy wings continue to remain popular.

[Kallas]

Stormhawks will be useful against Shining Spears/Swooping Hawks/Jetbikes/Grav-tanks, regardless of Craftworld!

[Captain Idaho]

Both solid suggestions.

 

Hopefully the Hunter will get a boost in the Chapter Approved as it's an accurate piece of kit just underwhelming in power. Like D6 damage but no less than 3 like the Onager.

 

Anyway... perhaps the Stalker could be a solution to many of our ills here?

[Prot]

Some great ideas. Oddly enough I was focused in on the Whirlwind Castellan launcher with the Telemetry Datalink Strategem, and then started looking at other units we don't typically see. I started to feel like the "eldar" codex might now be the big meta changer. No disrespect to IG but they simply do what they did in the index, just some of it changed. Eldar however are an instant nerf to 'to hit' aura's which is huge, and force us to look at other things we've probably tucked away since 8th started. 

Stormhawks will be useful against Shining Spears/Swooping Hawks/Jetbikes/Grav-tanks, regardless of Craftworld!

 

I like this idea as well... I painted mine for 8th but it was just so inferior compared to the Stormtalon I stopped using it when the actual codex came out. 

[Kallas]

 

Stormhawks will be useful against Shining Spears/Swooping Hawks/Jetbikes/Grav-tanks, regardless of Craftworld!

 

I like this idea as well... I painted mine for 8th but it was just so inferior compared to the Stormtalon I stopped using it when the actual codex came out. 

I've bought two, and they haven't hit the table yet (mostly because I've been distracted by Total Warhammer 2!) but they seem like a great answer to anything with Fly, which is actually quite a lot of things!

 

I'm thinking Icarus Stormcannons and Typhoon Missiles are the way to, for me anyway, as they give good flexibility for target selection while still being excellent sky hunters.

[MeltaRange]

Is it true that Craftworld bonuses are given to vehicles too?  WHY.  WHYYYYYYYYY.

[crazyterran]

On the bright side, if they have Craftworld Tactics they wont have Strength from Death!

 

I suspect Alatoic will be the most common, Ulthwé the second most. Not much counter play to Ulthwé, but for Alatoic it will be getting close range firepower.

 

Just going to have to drive those Razorbacks closer, I suppose! Luckily there isnt too much scary punchy stuff for our vehicles outside of Wraith constructs.

[Prot]

Very true, I just noticed that.

[Frater Cornelius]

No clue. Maybe Reivers have a reason to exist now? This may be 6th and 7th all over again, but this may also be hype. What units will get -2 to hit outside of flyers and Shadow Spectres? Is there any way to buff that?

 

I think armour is among the better options. A lot of hard-hitting Eldar stuff needs to get within 12" to do damage, which is where the buff wears off. Rhinos may be back on the menue along side deep striking units. Though when forging against Eldar, beware that the list does not become useless against all other lists. Going for Rhino rushes and deep strike is as far removed from an optimal Um strategy as one can get as it is not a Guilliman gunline.

 

Frankly, no clue though. Thinking about it makes me angry, so I simply do not think about it.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I dunno. I don't play Guilliman in a gunline. I take intensely perverse pleasure in cornholing my opponent with the Emperor's Sword so I play pretty far up the field.

 

Now, I may reconsider some of my more stationary elements like Devastators and Hellblasters, but my Guilliman death ball is gonna get inside that debuff range as fast I can.

 

The "roving gunline" I use may not be ideal though. Right now Aggressors and assault bolter Intercessors with Tiggy and some honor guard do a good job getting Guilliman into the inzone. But Eldar are fast and the list already doesn't like playing to objectives. Perhaps I should consider Reivers and/or Assault troops to help disrupt and fix in place. ...oh, maybe bikes?

 

Hmmm....

 

 

We shall see I suppose.

[Tamiel]

I am testing a Whirlwind + double-heavyflamer landspeeder now (for the stratagem). Will let you guys know if I run into any Eldar.

[Kallas]

I am testing a Whirlwind + double-heavyflamer landspeeder now (for the stratagem). Will let you guys know if I run into any Eldar.

"Oh, you cast Conceal on those distant Rangers?"

*Far off thumps*

"What Rangers..."

[Frater Cornelius]

Played against them today. 2000pts. None of us had particularly broken lists, but both of us like to think that we know how to play.

 

My list:

Guilliman

Tech Marine

Primaris Librarian

10 Intercessors - 2 aux grenade launchers

5 Intercessors - 1 aux grenade launcher

2x5 Scouts - one unit has a HB

Primaris Ancient - relic banner

Primaris Apothecary

Redemptor Dread - Plasma, Onslaught, SB

6 Hellblasters - Rapid fire

Repulsor - dakka version

2 Razorbacks - TLC

 

His list (Ulthwé):

Wraith Knight - 2 heavy Wraith Cannons

Eldrad

2 Spirit Seer

1 Jetseer

3x10 Guardians

5 Flamer Wraith Guard

Bonesinger

3x3 Dark Reapers

Hemlock

Wave Serpent

I am sure there was something else.

 

There was plenty of terrain to line of sight, probably a tad more than an average tournament.

 

First up, he refused to play Alaitoc, which is far more broken than Ulthwé. Second, he forgot a lot of Stratagems like redeploying 3 units or -1 hit on his Serpent, and I sure wasn't going to tell him during the game as he was practicing for a tournament.

And still? We'll, he started because of that dumb ruling of whoever finishes first gets +1 on a roll-off, which he won regardless.

Fast forward to bottom of turn 2 and I lost the Repulsor, Hellblasters, Scouts, Dreadnought and half my Intercessors. He lost the Serpent, the Wraiths and half his Guardians. Top of T3 saw the demise of Guilliman, twice, at which point I gave up, because I was shaking with rage at how limited and inferior Marines have become.

 

Verdict? Primaris with SM support are a piece of Grox poo compared to even an suboptimal Eldar list. Despite playing suboptimally, he really kicked my arse. The Stratagems are amazing, hardly anything is useless and plenty are game defining. The Psychic powers are amazingly useful and the psychers are cheap enough. The tanks are much tougher than anything SM can cook up and don't get me started on their superior equipment.

 

It was rather depressing to see how good, fun and interesting the other books are. Either way, maybe pure classicMarine lists have a better chance. I failed.