Primaris Options

[shanewatts]

So right now as far as Primaris Marines go, we can only take the units listed in the PDF GW published labelled "New Primaris Space Marines," correct?

 

Pretty much every unit, except the Ancient and Lieutenant. Which are like the main 2 I would want to use.

[Muckwarrior]

Correct. But, you should rethink that. I've been using Hellblasters to make up my Heavy Support slots and they are murderous. I mean, when they get into position, they start eliminating the other players models like nothing else. Placing the Watch Master or Artemis next to them allows them to safely Supercharge. Murderous. Devastating. Must take them.

[Vel'Cona]

It's a shame that DW are limited on options right now, but it's something we've been dealing with since 7th edition release and at least at this point we share that burden with armies like BA, SW et al.  Things will get better when the book is printed, but for the time being I agree with Muckwarrior that what we do have (like Hellblasters) shouldn't be underestimated.

[shanewatts]

How are you both moving Hellblasters up the field? Repulsor?

 

I don't see the advantage to them vs a kill team with plas/combi plas. Sure they have an extra wound so they have a little more staying power, but they lack the transport options.

 

Side note, most of my plas/melta etc I have been running has been on Scions, due to being a hell of a lot cheaper and not needing a transport.

[Muckwarrior]

shanewatts,

 

Most players play on a table that is roughly 4ft x 4ft. I use the Assault Incinerator (24 inches) that's half the table. They can be fielded up to 12 inches away from my end of the table, so they have no real need for a transport. Start them in cover or run them into cover and they're good to go. The enemy will go anywhere but where they are, unless the enemy has a deathwish. 

 

Hellblasters have several advantages: 2 Wounds, AP-4 and a (no ) 2 damage when Super Charging. I have seen my 10 Hellblasters deal 34 wounds to a Necron hover thingy once. Rerolled all 1's with the Watchmaster. Didn't lose a single model to overcharge. Against Death Guard, the 2 wounds force the DG to roll their Feel No Pain twice, a single fail equals death.

 

If I could take six squads of them I would and I'd win every fight. And this is just Hellblasters. Reivers with Carbines SLAUGHTER troops. They can grav-chute right into cover (buildings) and their charge range isn't effected by terrain. Inceptors are just as deadly.

Honestly, I feel like Primaris are some of our best options right now until we get updated...with one caveat...Frag Cannons still rule.

I have a squad that has 4 Frag Cannons in it and I put them in my Corvus. Right before I drop them, I always say to my opponent, "I hope you wore your $hittin' pants." lol

Edited October 27, 2017 by Muckwarrior

[Mobius0288]

I've equipped mine with the heavy Plasma version so I sit them next to my stalker team, razorback, watchmaster and primaris apothecary, and do mid field support. It isn't the most efficient way to use them but I'm a fan of having the range and extra AP. They are little just support for my kill teams in my two Corvus,' and objective camping.

 

Ideally I'd take default plasma guns and run them up in a repulsor with a squad of 5 reviers (pistol/knife). Taking 10 is probably a smarter idea, especially since I use them for vehicle hunting more then anything.

 

And to be honest about the repulsor.... unless you really love it and want to have it for the sake of having it, it's not all that fantastic. It cost a lot of points and because it's going to be the biggest thing in your army, it will usually go down first. Your points could be better spent on blackstars or more kill teams with other transports. I have it and it's a beast, but I don't use it anymore. It's a definitely for a "for fun" kind of match. If anything, I would use it to transport 10 default hellblasters as far up the field as possible.

 

If I have 100pts left in my list, I typically drop Reviers w/ carbines in it. Easy reinforcements for my kill teams or counter deep strike.

[Prot]

I agree... the Repulsor is fun, but I would not recommend it in a list which struggles with numbers. Personally, I believe in my play testing that I prefer a Landraider (I just can't transport Primaris in it). That 2+ save almost works like an invuln vs -3 AP guns. I don't know why, it just makes a huge difference. Also having the option for 4 x full range Lascannons is just a decent choice in most games.

 

My Reivers are all Carbine based, and I would keep them that way with Grav Chutes. But again... if I only had one type of Primaris to pick, it would be Helblasters. Easily my favourite in the entire Primaris line.

[shanewatts]

I can't remember the last time I played on a 4x4.

 

Isn't 4x6 still standard? Or have I been in the tournament scene too long?

 

Hellblasters sound cool, but still don't really fit into the lists I have been running lately.

[Aothaine]

Don't forget you get access to apothecary's via the Primaris. The most important inclusion of Primaris for the Deathwatch imho.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Aothaine

[robofish7591]

I have been thinking about adding some new models to my deathwatch army.  As far as primaris go, I think hellblasters and deep striking carbine reavers are probably going to be my go to.  Hellblasters are just a solid unit over all, as the standard plasma incinerator is a pretty beastly gun, and carbine reavers deep striking should make for decent harassment units and objective holders.  I'll also probably add an apothecary since its the only way deathwatch is going to get one at the moment, he will probably hang out with my stalker bolters or missile launchers.

[spacewatch]

Don't forget you get access to apothecary's via the Primaris. The most important inclusion of Primaris for the Deathwatch imho.

 

I have never used Apothecary since DW is my first and only army. So I ask why is he so good/important? Is it because he can heal 5-15 wounds or is it because he can return 0-5 slain models during the game? Apothecary behind two melee Dreads sounds interesting but I don't see what's the benefit of trying to return even Frag Vets or Characters back with just one wound. How do I see this wrong?

Edited October 28, 2017 by spacewatch

[Aothaine]

Bringing back units/models is really powerful. I've seen multiple games now where the Apothecary literally carried the game. 

 

Here is how I think this can be taken advantage of with DW. You use Terminators to soak hits. I'd use 2 with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer. Use them to soak hits and revive them with Apothecarys.

 

Ex list 

 

Betallion - CP 6

 

HQ - Watch Master

 

ELITE - Primaris Apothecary

ELITE - Primaris Apothecary

ELITE - Primaris Apothecary

 

TROOP - Deathwatch Kill Team (at least two terminators, one bike and one vanguard, black shield, sergeant, 4 veterans) (All three apothecarys follow this unit)

 

 

Build you list around this core. Have a huge kill team that can make use of up to three models coming back per turn or bringing back a 2W model and then heal it.

 

The goal is deathstar. Sure it is land locked but from what I can tell armies meet up in this edition relatively easily. You could also possibly work in a second battalion to add three more apothecarys. They are much better than they appear. 

[Mobius0288]

 

Don't forget you get access to apothecary's via the Primaris. The most important inclusion of Primaris for the Deathwatch imho.

 

I have never used Apothecary since DW is my first and only army. So I ask why is he so good/important? Is it because he can heal 5-15 wounds or is it because he can return 0-5 slain models during the game? Apothecary behind two melee Dreads sounds interesting but I don't see what's the benefit of trying to return even Frag Vets or Characters back with just one wound. How do I see this wrong?

 

 

Lol so he's not THAT beast of an asset. He can heal a single adeptus astartes infantry model D3 wounds or attempt to revive a model on a 4+ (in that order - it matters for multi-wound models in a single unit). In the front lines, he can potentially revive the extra frag cannon that went down the turn before. He could revive that missile launcher guy in the backfield, or heal the watchmaster up to D3 wounds who just got sniped from the vindicare.

 

Aothaine has my thoughts with the super kill team followed by the apothecary, but I don't believe you can heal that same squad more then once per player turn. Me personally, I'd aim for a squad that will survive and be super annoying :) 

[spacewatch]

Thanks for clarification and examples how to make use of this. To understand this better I made some playtesting. At first I made Aothaine's deathstar: x3 frags, x2 combi-meltas + power axe, VVet with TH, x2 Termies with TH&SS, x3 Apothecaries and Watch Master. That's a quite a lot of points. Then I let x5 Meganobz with x2 killsaws and x3 power claws + x2 rokkit launchas and big shoota to attack. In every test (4 tests total) I made Orc shooting killed one termie and DW frag overwatch killed 1-2 Meganobz before Orc charge. In half of the cases Meganobz then killed entire team with killsaws and power claws ...and next turn Apothecaries (which is good result because now Meganobz wipe my Vets of table every time). I also put two Dreads with twin-lascannon and melee weapon&SB against same Meganobz and in all four cases Meganobz killed both Dreads I think melee with the Meganobz is second worst case to test this from DW point of view, melee with Gorganaut beeing the worst case I don't even bother to test.

 

After some mathhammering I would say that Apothecaries ability to spam 3+ inv. save, which Termies and Vets are able to get and Dreads not, turn after turn is the thing here. But to make this approach work you have to hit hard every turn you get because propability of dying is much higher than probability of returning back - at least against the Meganobz. So as Aothaine said goal must be deathstar. I definitely need to test this in actual game and simplest way to do this is to put one Apothecary into Corvus together with my Alpha1 strike team. I just need to give Alpha1 team extra Vets with storm shields.

Edited October 28, 2017 by spacewatch

[robofish7591]

The big problem that I have with the primaris apothecary is that he can't ride in the same transport as the killteams that he wants to be around, since primaris can't ride in rhinos/razobacks, landraiders, or the corvus.  I personally see the primaris apothecary in my back field with my long ranged killteams (stalker bolters, missile launchers, maybe heavy bolters if you take them) in cover and holding objectives or providing fire support.  The combination of marines in cover and being able to heal or bring back squad members could make a decently survivable unit.

[Mobius0288]

Ya melee with DW really doesn't mix that well. I've made a squad that I plan to test in my next match: 2 termies (storm bolter/power sword), 2 storm shield/bolters, 2 shotguns (or bolters?), 2 infernus heavy bolter, 1 bolter/xenophase. Now a corvus transport is a better decision (hence the shotgun) but I wounder how it would do walking across the battlefield harrassing things with the apothecary. It should hurt the closer things get to it.

Deep strike Reivers next to it when things get hairy? :-D