Transforming 4th Edition Ravens into 8th Ed Ravens...

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

So, as I have mentioned in my posts in the past, my Raven Guard army is very dated. I returned to the game in late 7th Ed (just before the Angels of Death book dropped), and the game has felt ever shifting in terms of meta/rules/balance ever since.

 

 

My Raven Guard army as it stands now is very dated, from an edition where Assault Marines were actually good.

 

 

I have been just playing the army with stand-ins, proxies, and count-as ever since, testing new units and trying to "settle in" on a baseline of units that I like - performance, visual appeal, and are a narrative fit (to me).

 

 

The reason for this thread is to establish a tentative "completed army" list that I can set a goal and work towards, which will involve almost entirely on new units. Once I complete this list, the things that are in my current (old) army I will begin to strip and re-work up to a new standard of painting/converting/basing/etc

 

 

Onwards to some lists-

 

 

What I currently own that is 100% finished (aka “the old stuff”)

 

 

1 Chaplain with Jump Pack – Plasma Pistol

 

1 Chaplain – Plasma Pistol

 

1 Captain with Jump Pack – Dual LC (Based off the old Marshal model - https://tinyurl.com/ybrw3fl2)

 

1 Shadow Captain Shrike – 25 MM base, No Jump Pack (lost) – Pewter

 

 

~~All Pewter~~

 

13 Scouts with Sniper Rifles & Camo Cloaks (2 of which are actually Cadian snipers)

 

2 Scouts with Missle Launchers

 

2 Scouts with Heavy Bolters

 

5 Scouts with Bolters

 

5 Scouts with Shotguns

 

5 Scouts with BP+CCW

 

2 Scout Sergeants – 1 BP+PS, 1 BP+PF (Using the Sly Marbo model as a base)

 

 

5 Space Marine Bikers – 2 Plasma Guns (Pewter/Plastic Hybrids)

 

1 Space Marine Attack Bike – Multi Melta (Pewter/Plastic Hybrid)

 

 

~30 Space Marine Assault Marines (Various kits, some pewter, some plastic, some old pewter Death Company Torso/Legs with plastic bits – All with either BP+CCW or dual BP)

 

6 Space Marine Assault Marines (Plasma Pistol + CCW or Plasma Pistol + BP)

 

2 Space Marine Assault Marines (Flamers)

 

4 Assault Marine Sergeants (3x PF + PP, 1x PS + PP)

 

 

1 Whirlwind

 

2 Dreadnoughts – (1 Twin LC + DCCW, 1 Twin LC + ML)

 

 

Lastly, I have 1 Completed/finished Land Speeder Storm that I have recently assembled/painted for the Talon’s Reach event – to a higher standard than my “old” stuff from 10 years ago.

 

 

Now, on to the shame – Below is what I currently own, that is in various states, mostly NIB/NOS:

 

 

2x 5 Vanguard Veterans

 

3x 5 Sternguard Veterans

 

3x 10 Man Tactical Squad

 

2x 5 Man Devastator Squad (the older kit without Grav Cannons)

 

1x 5 Man Devastator Squad (new kit – w/ Cherub)

 

2x 5 Man Assault Squad (old kit – no eviscerators)

 

2x 5 Man Assault Squad (new kit)

 

1x 3 Man Centurion warsuit kit

 

1x 5 Man Scout Squad (Sniper Rifles, Missle Launcher, Camo Cloaks

 

1x 5 Man Scout Squad (Bolters, Heavy Bolter)

 

3x Razorback

 

4x Drop Prod (2 NIB, 2 Assembled, Primed, with a couple base layers applied)

 

1x Land Speeder

 

1x Land Speeder Storm

 

1x Primaris Aggressors (3 Models)

 

1x Primaris Intercessors (Standalone kit – Not Dark Imperium

 

1x 5 Man Terminator Squad (Ranged, not Assault)

 

 

1x Dark Imperium (Captain, 2x Lieutenant, Ancient, 10 Intercessors, 3 Inceptors, 5 Hellblasters)

 

 

1x Betrayal at Calth

 

1x Burning of Prospero

 

 

Now, the above inventory list isn’t meant to be all Raven Guard, as I was purchasing models, some kits were earmarked for my Raven Guard, and others were intended to be used for a different loyalist DIY chapter project (based on my first army when I started playing the game in 2^nd Ed, and I have a bit of backstory and a paint scheme already in mind for). That being said, none of its painted assembled, so I can do whatever I want with it, it’s just a reserve to draw on at this point.

 

 

Where do you guys come in? Well my last list is going to be the “completed army” list that I want to have at my disposal to actually play in tournaments and “get serious” about playing on a regular basis. This is the goal to work towards. What I want from you guys is to look at what I own, look at where I want to go, and give feedback.

 

 

After the list ill post a few questions that I would like you to ask yourself, in the context of my lists, and then post an answer (if you would be so kind).

 

 

I am going to divide the list into 3 categories – Need, Want, and Wish.

 

 

Need – Mission critical units that in my opinion I either need because they help modernize the army and bring it “up to snuff” or they are very strong units that will be repeated staples in most lists I field

 

 

Want – My first potential expansion units. These are units that will get used fairly regularly, but won’t be used in every list, and will be first candidates for swapping when changing up lists

 

 

Wish – More exotic/expensive units that I would love to have from an aesthetic/showcase perspective, but would only see intermittent play. These are mostly Forgeworld or Odd/Rare units in terms of how I would fit them in a list.

 

 

“The Goal” List:

 

The Need:

 

6 New Character Models – 2 Captains and 2 Lieutenants, (one each on foot & jump pack),  1 Banner Bearer, 1 "Counts-As" Lias Issodon

 

20 Tactical Marines – Bolters

 

4 Tactical Sergeants – Magnetized with an array of Combi-Weapons to customize

 

6 Tactical Marines – Special Weapons – (2x ea Plasma Gun, Flamer, Meltagun)

 

2-3 Rhino/Razorbacks – Convertible with at least 2 Weapon Configurations (Twin LC, Twin AC)

 

10-15 Vanguard Veterans (Jump Packs, a mix of Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers, and SS) - These may get bumped down in prio

 

15 Devastator Marines (3 Sergeants, 4 Plasma Cannons, 4 Lascannons, 4 Heavy Bolters)

 

1 Storm Raven

 

2 Storm Talons (Converted to a “Shadow Hawk/Talon” Kiavahr pattern) - These may get bumped down in prio

 

The Want: 

 

6 Boltstorm Aggressors 

 

Another Ven Dread (I am going to attempt to acquire the OOP Venerable Raven Guard dread from Forgeworld from our eastern friends) - Magnetized to use as Ironclad or Ranged Ven Dread.

 

10 Reivers (Bolt Carbines)

 

10 Intercessors (Going to model these with Stalker Bolt Rifles and use them as Stalkers or regular Bolt Rifles)

 

10 Sternguard (Special Issue Bolters)

 

10 Scouts (5 more Bolters, 5 more Snipers)

 

The Wish:

 

1 Fire Raptor Gunship

 

1 Land Raider Excelsior

 

5 Tartaros Terminators

 

1 Librarian w/ Jump Pack

 

1 Raven Guard Contemptor (Forge World) - 2x Kheres Assault Cannon

 

1 Redemptor

 

 

I will edit this post later with my Want/Wish sections. But for now, I would love to hear folks' input.

 

My questions (as it pertains to your current army/opinions):

 

1) What units do you play with that are staples in every one of your lists? Can't leave home without it? etc

 

2) What units do you feel are strongest OR most aesthetically pleasing in the current range?

 

3) What one unit (or more) do you feel is sub-optimal or less-than, but you still love and regularly field in your lists? (Come on, we all have a few)

Edited October 30, 2017 by ltvyper

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

1.  A captain or shrike for rerolls.  Devastators, lascannons/heavy bolers/plasma.... gotta shoot stuff!  Scouts and scout bikers... gotta grab space on the board and zoom around blasting chaff.  I havent made any list without these things in 8th.  

 

2.  Strongest on the board... devs/stormravens/dreads/razorbacks/predators/scout bikers.  Best looking models... venerable dreads, reivers, vanguard vets.

 

3. Tactical marines, vanguard vets, assault terminators.  Tacs and vanguard are average/servicable.  Assault terminators are just bad.  They don't really do what they are supposed to and arent durable or fast.  They basically just sit in reserve doing nothing, then when they show up you gotta make a 9" inch charge... which is something like 28% chance...40ish with 1 rerolls.  Either way they are going to die on the opponents next turn 99% of the time.  

[Damo1701]

1) Strongest units through experience: 10 LC Vanguard paired with Strike. 5 Tartaros Terminators (secondary target/forward threat alongside the Vanguard)

 

2) Staples: Tactical Marines, Vindicator Laser Destroyer, Sucarian Punisher, and Lascannon Devastators.

 

3) variable to poor performers: Assault Marines, scouts, land speeders, drop pods.

 

Bikes I've had a mixed bag with, so may look at adding them back to a list at some point.

[seriade]

My only comment would be enjoy rebasing alot of marines i know i still am ><; 25 to 32 mm bases kinda suck.

[duz_]

You can always get the 25mm -> 32mm conversion rings. Saves having to chop them all up!

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

My only comment would be enjoy rebasing alot of marines i know i still am ><; 25 to 32 mm bases kinda suck.

 

I have no intention of rebasing any of my old assault marines. Eventually they will either be sold off or shelved for nostalgia. I will however at some point strip my pewter scouts and repaint and rebase them, but they will of course go back on 25mm for that.

 

The only model I might convert over to a 32mm base is my Jump Chaplain just because he is ancient, oop, and one of my more sentimental models (I dont even think I will repaint him)

 

I really appreciate everyone's feedback so far, and will continue to update this thread and read further commentary I receive from you folks on what should go on my "list". I updated the OP with a new version, with some slight edits, and added the Want/Wish categories as well (that will form Stage 2 and Stage 3)

 

“The Goal” List:

 

The Need:

 

6 New Character Models – 2 Captains and 2 Lieutenants, (one each on foot & jump pack),  1 Banner Bearer, 1 "Counts-As" Lias Issodon

 

20 Tactical Marines – Bolters

 

4 Tactical Sergeants – Magnetized with an array of Combi-Weapons to customize

 

6 Tactical Marines – Special Weapons – (2x ea Plasma Gun, Flamer, Meltagun)

 

2-3 Rhino/Razorbacks – Convertible with at least 2 Weapon Configurations (Twin LC, Twin AC)

 

10-15 Vanguard Veterans (Jump Packs, a mix of Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers, and SS) - These may get bumped down in prio

 

15 Devastator Marines (3 Sergeants, 4 Plasma Cannons, 4 Lascannons, 4 Heavy Bolters)

 

1 Storm Raven

 

2 Storm Talons (Converted to a “Shadow Hawk/Talon” Kiavahr pattern) - These may get bumped down in prio

 

The Want: 

 

6 Boltstorm Aggressors 

 

Another Ven Dread (I am going to attempt to acquire the OOP Venerable Raven Guard dread from Forgeworld from our eastern friends) - Magnetized to use as Ironclad or Ranged Ven Dread.

 

10 Reivers (Bolt Carbines)

 

10 Intercessors (Going to model these with Stalker Bolt Rifles and use them as Stalkers or regular Bolt Rifles)

 

10 Sternguard (Special Issue Bolters)

 

10 Scouts (5 more Bolters, 5 more Snipers)

 

The Wish:

 

1 Fire Raptor Gunship

 

1 Land Raider Excelsior

 

5 Tartaros Terminators

 

1 Librarian w/ Jump Pack

 

1 Raven Guard Contemptor (Forge World) - 2x Kheres Assault Cannon

 

1 Redemptor

 

If you read the above list and and want to share more of your thoughts as to if something belongs there or should be demoted or promoted accordingly, I would love to hear it!

[Claws and Effect]

Move the Fire  Raptor and Contemptor Dread from Wish to Need. 

 

Well, you've seen both of mine. They're freaking awesome models. And they do some serious work. 

 

Fire Raptor - 24 S5 shots, 10 S6 shots, 4 S8 shots. 

 

If you run the Relic version of the Contemptor, you get 12W, 5++, 6+ FNP as opposed to the 10W, 5++ the standard has. 

[smbarne]

 

1) What units do you play with that are staples in every one of your lists? Can't leave home without it? etc

 

2) What units do you feel are strongest OR most aesthetically pleasing in the current range?

 

3) What one unit (or more) do you feel is sub-optimal or less-than, but you still love and regularly field in your lists? (Come on, we all have a few)

 

 

I'm a bit late to the party, but:

 

1) 

 - Two Stormhawks.  Substitute two Stormtalons per taste.  The maneuverability, variety of firepower, and surprising toughness of the hawks gets results and/or forces opponents to deal with them every game.

 - Shrike, because chapter master rerolls

 - A Lt. for those rerolls of one

 

2) 

 - Strongest? Probably a Storm Raven or two of them.  But darn it, I just can't get into the model.

 - If competitive, typically a backbone of 3 twin assault cannon razorbacks with a five man tac squad with combi-plasma and grav cannon.  It's not super raven guard fluffy and plays somewhat boring with shrike yelling at the tanks to shoot better.  But it's effective and you can use the tac squads to screen the tanks from charges

 - Decent, fluffy, and cool? Lightening claw vanguard vets

 

3) 

 - Drop pods.  I've got two painted up that look awesome and I love the theme.  But they're so overpriced and with Lias giving you three drop pods plus some, they're extremely not worth their points.

 - And grav cannons, though as the BAO lists showed I'm apparently using my grav cannons wrong. 

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Move the Fire  Raptor and Contemptor Dread from Wish to Need. 

 

Well, you've seen both of mine. They're freaking awesome models. And they do some serious work. 

 

Fire Raptor - 24 S5 shots, 10 S6 shots, 4 S8 shots. 

 

If you run the Relic version of the Contemptor, you get 12W, 5++, 6+ FNP as opposed to the 10W, 5++ the standard has. 

 

I know! After seeing both your Raptor and Contemptor in person, it made me move from "I think I want this" to "I definitely need this". I just have to use my current game plan to get some of my "need" stuff painted (that I already own) to make space to filter in other models. 

 

However, if 1 or 2 of my Want or Wish items end up on my Christmas list and end up in my possession as a results, what a guy to do, ya know? 

 

 

 

1) What units do you play with that are staples in every one of your lists? Can't leave home without it? etc

 

2) What units do you feel are strongest OR most aesthetically pleasing in the current range?

 

3) What one unit (or more) do you feel is sub-optimal or less-than, but you still love and regularly field in your lists? (Come on, we all have a few)

 

 

I'm a bit late to the party, but:

 

1) 

 - Two Stormhawks.  Substitute two Stormtalons per taste.  The maneuverability, variety of firepower, and surprising toughness of the hawks gets results and/or forces opponents to deal with them every game.

 - Shrike, because chapter master rerolls

 - A Lt. for those rerolls of one

 

2) 

 - Strongest? Probably a Storm Raven or two of them.  But darn it, I just can't get into the model.

 - If competitive, typically a backbone of 3 twin assault cannon razorbacks with a five man tac squad with combi-plasma and grav cannon.  It's not super raven guard fluffy and plays somewhat boring with shrike yelling at the tanks to shoot better.  But it's effective and you can use the tac squads to screen the tanks from charges

 - Decent, fluffy, and cool? Lightening claw vanguard vets

 

3) 

 - Drop pods.  I've got two painted up that look awesome and I love the theme.  But they're so overpriced and with Lias giving you three drop pods plus some, they're extremely not worth their points.

 - And grav cannons, though as the BAO lists showed I'm apparently using my grav cannons wrong. 

 

 

I really want to get my hands on the Stormhawk model so I can see how I can hybridize the parts to come up with something that rides the line between the two that appears a native pattern to Kiavahr. 

 

I feel you on the Razorback front. I will end up with 2-3 of them in my army, but for a long time I was quite diametrically opposed to running units like that in my RG as it just felt un-fluffy. I have come around to it, and the flexibility will be nice.

 

I think Grav-Cannons being a successful choice probably has more to do with your meta and less to do with your implementation. They are mediocre against elite infantry, but against multi-wound 3+ models is where they really shine. 

[seriade]

For the 6 characters and a lot of what you need for the other choices i would grab a box of sternguard as they can easily represent captains and lts.  As for lias i would grab a single mordeythan as the base then trick him out with a bunch of stuff from the stearnguard box with possibly the stalker bolt rifle from a kill team box if you can find one.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

For the 6 characters and a lot of what you need for the other choices i would grab a box of sternguard as they can easily represent captains and lts.  As for lias i would grab a single mordeythan as the base then trick him out with a bunch of stuff from the stearnguard box with possibly the stalker bolt rifle from a kill team box if you can find one.

 

Great suggestions.

 

I have 3 Sternguard kits at my disposal currently, so I can go that route for a basis of a large portion of the bits. I also have access to a handful of Death Watch bits since I bought a copy of Death Masque, so that shouldn't be an issue either.

 

I was originally thinking of using Shadow Captain Solaq's legs for the basis for my "Counts-as" Lias Issodon, and then some sort of caped/minimalistic torso carrying Malice resting on his knee. Not sure if this can work though with how high the knee is (and also wondering if the Aquila trim on the right grave is "too much" for Lias counts-as)

 

I think this weekend I might try my hand at mold-making so I can start manufacturing extra Stalker Boltguns in addition to symbols.

[seriade]

You know when you see something and you hate yourself for it.  I thought i would leave this here as it now has me wondering  if i should do this 1 to cover most needs and 2 for the deal it generally represents.  The only thing is if you mind a touch of the old school :P

 

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/The-Horus-Heresy-Betrayal-at-Calth-Book

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Its honestly a great value, and its got a wealth of options. On a personal note, I feel like MK IV is my next favorite armor variant for RG forces after M VI.

[Race Bannon]

I fully support that idea.  I had to unfreeze the CC to get a box when I saw it.

[thewarriorhunter]

I got into the hobby with a B@C box. Great value and the game itself is good too. After playing a few games I almost bought another one to paint up as Ultramarines and Word Bearers just so I could play the boxed game.

 

The contemptor pose sucks but if you're brave enough you can convert it without too much work (I did).