Codex Chaos Daemons first in 2018

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

My issue with Pincer Daemon isn't armament and aesthetic is subjective. Again, it is only .5" shorter than Zarakynel so it is wholly unsuitable as a regular KoS and if I wanted to represent Zarakynel I would use Zarakynel, even though she's three times the price.

[Slave to Darkness]

My Keeper of Secrets is only 2 inches tall. :lol: It is still a KoS though. Size shouldnt matter.

[WarriorFish]

I feel the topic has gone off course somewhat ;) To return it in anticipation of the new codex I have acquired myself a Daemon Prince as a model that should hopefully benefit nicely from a codex. If nothing else the option for a Warlord Trait should help him :) Give him some talons (I like claws for my Slaanesh forces) and wings and he can bounce up the table with some Seekers.

[DuskRaider]

Do you think we'll see options for Heralds on Mounts in the new Codex?

[Panzer]

Well for the Slaanesh Herald on Chariot for sure since it has a model.

[DuskRaider]

Wondering about Herald of Nurgle on Palanquin... technically it has the Epidemius model. 

[radionausea]

All heralds aside from Nurgle already have two options for mounts that I can tell.

I don't know why Nurgle doesn't have any mount at all. I'd love for a plague drone mount for Nurgle heralds but I don't expect even a palanquin :(

[DeStinyFiSh]

Since we already know that the Daemon Codex will see the biggest change to the Index from all Codexes so far I think we can only wishlist for now.

 

Since Horticulus Slimux is rumoured to get some fun in 40k, maybe he can be used as generic Herald on Giant Slug

[BoomWolf]

How do we know it will be the biggest changes so far?

 

 

Anyways, you can bet disk heralds are staying, they got models.

So will chariot Therald.

Bloodcrusher herald and blood throne also has models.

 

I doubt nurgle will be the only one left out, especially given how much love he gets recently.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

We don't know it will be, that's one of the rumours.

[DeStinyFiSh]

How do we know it will be the biggest changes so far?

 

 

Okay, so the FLG Signals video cast at time 31:44 they say "the demon codex is a gigantic change from the index"...

I'm hyped? What could it be? Huge swings in points/stats/strategems/stuffs??!!! (!!! !!!!! !!!!!!!!!)

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKxfd462Mb8 

[radionausea]

Herald of Nurgle isn't on the games workshop website anymore. Not even 'out of stock' ... Just not there

[Commissar K.]

Herald of Nurgle isn't on the games workshop website anymore. Not even 'out of stock' ... Just not there

Huh quite strange, they are still there for Khorne and Slaanesh.Frankly speaking though I don't think they will cut them. The prime advantage as to 'knowing' why they wouldn't is because Age of Sigmar uses them still and the Age of Sigmar deals are still online and also easy to use for 40K.

 

Now what could happen (happened with AoS too) is that the Herald will not be available seperate anymore. Several of the least selling AoS models are still available and useable but not sold seperate anymore. One example is the Vulkite Dwarf on their 'dragon'. The only way to obtain these still (and yes you can still use them) is trough an army deal or a brick and mortar store who still has them in stock.

 

Links to ways to obtain the Nurgle herald:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Army-of-Nurgle-2017

 

Onto Codex Chaos Daemons

 

I think we're in for larger changes too and the prime reason why I think this is the case is because the Chaos Daemons Index entries are quite frankly boring and as many of us have probably seen this on the field too, not too much is that excellent about them. There are offcourse the Horrors and Plaguebearers for durability or Bloodletters and Daemonettes for offense and I do think most of the infantry will remain the same but I do expect Chaos Daemons to focus more soon on Greater Daemons.

 

For me a focus on Greater Daemons would allow the army to operate more akin to Tyranids and in many ways I'd also like to see this. A bubble with Morale immunity (basically Daemonic stability) around a Greater Daemon to me would make a ton of sence to have Chaos Daemons essentially be the "Horde Chaos army". In addition I also would not be extremely suprised to see Strategems who focus on single-god armies and Heralds being more of a melee buff beacon be it by just staying there or indeed through Psycic support. 

In addition I think that we're in for an extremely powerful army. The prime reason as to why it's possible is because this way 1.Grey Knights will serve a massive role in beating Daemon heavy meta's and 2. It would make sence in terms of narrative to have Daemons really be scary and basically require you to thake into consideration.

 

What I don't think will change all too much is the infantry, cavalry and elites. Things I do expect is extremely strong Stratagems that are akin to the Alpha Legion stratagem, basically allowing a Daemon unit to show up anywhere. This will probably cause another havoc on the community but when it's all said and done I think players will realize that the awnser to it is allready there too. 

 

Edit: What I also hope is that Daemons will have some better mortal interactions but as always I'm not certain this will occur. I do think that currently the Word Bearer design simply doesn't make much sence and have a secret hope that there will be something in the Codex Chaos Daemons for them too. But who knows. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Commissar K.

[DuskRaider]

I would suggest to others to pick up Horticulous Slimux on eBay now before he gets repackaged or whatever and the price skyrockets. If anything you could always use him as Epidemius with minimal conversion (the snail becomes the palanquin).

 

Edit: BTW, you can always get the Herald through this: 

 

                  https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Start-Collecting-Daemons-of-Nurgle-2017

 

Never bad to have more units either.

Edited December 12, 2017 by DuskRaider

[Commissar K.]

Yeah I think it's possible that the Herald will be repackaged or something. I know it's not on the website now but GW has done this before and have models show up later again. This could also have something to do with the recently (perhaps) spoiled Beast of Nurgle video. However it will unfold I am quite excited by the prospect of it all.

What I'm also looking forward to is if this new Codex might come with some new releases. Things that got me thinking are:
- Will we see a new plastic Great Unclean One?
- Will we see a new plastic Beast of Nurgle? (probably yes)
- Will we see new plastic Fleshhounds? (perhaps, we do have two soon in AoS/Shadespire)
- Will we see a new plastic Keeper of Secrets? 
- Will we see new plastic Fiends of Slaanesh?

Yes to all would be amazing but I do think three of these options are quite likely. Slaanesh is slowely returning to Age of Sigmar aswell...

[DuskRaider]

I would say the model (Herald) may even be in the process of being redone. If you look, Epidemius himself is temporarily unavailable which leads me to believe he may just be a re-package. History has shown between Khorne Daemonkin / Khorne AoS & the Bloodthirster release along with Thousand Sons / Silver Tower & Lord of Change, I'd bet money on a Great Unclean One being released.

[Skallagoose]

I just want to see point changes and a reason to bring pink horrors. Right now they are probably the worst choice for a troop, just because brimstones are better for what you want pinks to do.

I'd like to see a rule for troop daemons and Pink Horrors only that they can intercept shots on greater daemons. Currently greater daemons are over-costed and killed off before they can make it 2 turns in. Protection would go a LONG way to help make greater daemons appear on the table

[hhhdan]

I just want to see point changes and a reason to bring pink horrors. Right now they are probably the worst choice for a troop, just because brimstones are better for what you want pinks to do.

I'd like to see a rule for troop daemons and Pink Horrors only that they can intercept shots on greater daemons. Currently greater daemons are over-costed and killed off before they can make it 2 turns in. Protection would go a LONG way to help make greater daemons appear on the table

 

Honestly this is one thing I hope they really change a lot. Pink horrors should get their good shooting back, like they had in 5th edition, then they would actually be useful as a shooty unit, not just a screening blob. Blue horrors can probably stay the same, maybe give them a weak shooting attack, like assault 1 12" S3 AP- D1 to represent the flames a lot of them have. However brimstone horrors shouldn't be this stable, so i really want to see some kind of exploding rule that they have to blow up if they are in combat. And maybe only let them be on the table limited amount of time, that way, you would either use the split to blow them up in combat or would have to rush them up to explode, like non-permanent spore mines (but obviously weaker explosion).

 

That would make all 3 choices interesting and will actually give incentive to split.

 

Also I really want the loci back as upgrades to heralds, as well as magic weapons/rewards (maybe not as random, but still some kind of upgrade system would be nice). 

 

Also there will probably be a warpstorm table back, which should be interesting, i wonder how they do it. Something akin to the Tzeentch daemons special warpstorm table from the curse of the wulfen would be sweet, as it was not as time consuming, but was pretty fun too.

 

Same for the blood tithe table, something like that should be back, it was too much fun not to bring it back in some way.

[hhhdan]

I just want to see point changes and a reason to bring pink horrors. Right now they are probably the worst choice for a troop, just because brimstones are better for what you want pinks to do.

I'd like to see a rule for troop daemons and Pink Horrors only that they can intercept shots on greater daemons. Currently greater daemons are over-costed and killed off before they can make it 2 turns in. Protection would go a LONG way to help make greater daemons appear on the table

 

Yeah, that would help, but honestly, lord of change is almost as survivable as Magnus, he has 2 wounds less and no re-rolling 1s for invul saves. But he just doesn't do enough damage in psychic or combat, not to mention mobility to cost 2/3 of what magnus costs

[Rastamarine]

Mini war gaming have a video up where they infiltrate Games Workshop and towards the end of the video they show a new beast of nurgle on the painting table at 3:20 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MofgqGcXsRI

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

I like to pretend we get the mechanical part of 40k, fluff be damned. Imagine it - a full roaring hoard of deamons burst through the warp ... and open up with demon guns! moving down the hapless Imperium skum that thought they would just sit back and shoot us out of the sky. I mean, if they did this with tyranids and their bio-weapons that shoot living ammunition, why can't we have deamon lazers or bolt-esqe equipment?

 

As an aside, I have two 30mm models from ... Reaper? maybe? on the 50mm deamon prince base exactly because we come in all shapes and sizes. +1 that!

[DeStinyFiSh]

I like to pretend we get the mechanical part of 40k, fluff be damned. Imagine it - a full roaring hoard of deamons burst through the warp ... and open up with demon guns! moving down the hapless Imperium skum that thought they would just sit back and shoot us out of the sky. I mean, if they did this with tyranids and their bio-weapons that shoot living ammunition, why can't we have deamon lazers or bolt-esqe equipment?

 

As an aside, I have two 30mm models from ... Reaper? maybe? on the 50mm deamon prince base exactly because we come in all shapes and sizes. +1 that!

 

Please.... just no....

Why do you want another army that shots with Lasers and Bolters, there are enough already

I dont want my Daemons to look and feel like Tyranids or Orks. If I want that I can just field these armys.

 

I dont even need a Prince with Warp Bolter. Let the Heretic Astartes field the former mortal dudes that took their weapons with them and daemonized them. But give me the pure Daemons, born in the warp. If I get shooting, give me spitting Nurgle Daemons, laser beam eyes, flames and the likes.

[Commissar K.]

I think that we won't see Daemons with guns either, it makes little to no sence and the line being suitable for AoS too also is a massive advantage for GW, Daemons are currently the most likely army that will have players play both AoS and 40K with the same army because they can.

Instead I expect Daemons to indeed be a horde but be much more focused soon around the summoning and basically teleporting into the battle out of nowhere (and indeed teleporting back into nothing). I do expect all these ideas to be fleshed out in Stratagems offcourse but this is also the likely reason why Detachments can't mix CSM and Daemons as easily. The pure combination of the two with all Stratagems involved would just simply be insanity. As before though I do have a secret hope for an additional Word Bearer Stratagem in Codex Daemons, to me that would just be fitting and well deserved for them too.

Personally I don't like the Warp Bolter for Daemon Princes either, the Kai Gun from 3rd was something I could live with but in reality a Daemonic Plasma Pistol option would be more as sufficient for me as an exclusive for Daemon Princes. Tzeentch will and should obviously have it's ranged attacks, and likely will have it in that form and/or Psycic Powers.

A design choice I do find very interesting is that used for Tyranids in the form of the hyve mind. I hope something like that will be there for all our Greater Daemons too, maby even Daemon Princes. First and foremost though I think the "deep strike/summonning" design is essential to capture the allround terror feeling Daemons should have in 40K. They are the danger in the dark thaking lives away from seemfully nowhere.

One thing I would be interested in which used to be covered but isn't covered now is the addition of more Daemonic invested Vechicles. I personally hope that the Codex Daemons will include several Daemonic Engines and ideally come up with some new ones aswell. That synergy is there and to me it's fitting for them aswell. Those engines can carry the guns ;) 

[WarriorFish]

I think I'd prefer Daemons to stay a bit different too, but it has made me ponder the lack of shooting options. Only Tzeentchian daemons feel right shooting and even then it's psychic technically ;) If the summoning mechanic was improved that could be a neat enough counter to the lack of range in the army.

 

Given the seeming propensity for Daemon players to run mono-god lists (or at least mono-focused?) the way the codex works might be quite difficult to get right. I could be very wrong though :P New Daemon engines would go a long way to rounding things out, and of course new models are always welcome :D

[Commissar K.]

I think I'd prefer Daemons to stay a bit different too, but it has made me ponder the lack of shooting options. Only Tzeentchian daemons feel right shooting and even then it's psychic technically If the summoning mechanic was improved that could be a neat enough counter to the lack of range in the army.

 

Given the seeming propensity for Daemon players to run mono-god lists (or at least mono-focused?) the way the codex works might be quite difficult to get right. I could be very wrong though New Daemon engines would go a long way to rounding things out, and of course new models are always welcome

I think you have some really good points. I just think that for Daemons the largest depth uncovered so far is indeed in their summonning mechanic, as before I'd love to see units hopping in and out reality however offcourse this would be largely designed with restrictions in mind too, which makes Stratagems the most ideal for them. 

 

As 8th has shown that mono builds are around but mixes are usually better rewarded I do think that mono-builds will be decent enough for supporting CSM but indeed not enough to solely play Chaos Daemon as a competitive army on its own, but this also makes sence to me, it's true for SM and CSM aswell as the more Legions/Chapters/Gods you have the more acces to Stratagems and Psycic powers you get who usually lead to more combos. 

 

An option to have Possessed Vechicles (again) would also be very interesting to me. Though GW doesn't produce such kits right now so I do think this might be too much wishful thinking. As before though I do think we have a nice slew of Daemonic Engines allready and they should all be in this book too for ranged support reasons.