How have you been doing with Dark Eldar so far? (discussion)

[TrawlingCleaner]

How have you been doing with DE against other Index armies and Codex armies? Have you been struggling? Are you enjoying the play style? What works for you and what doesn't? Do you think we need a codex soon or can we manage without one?

 

I just thought I'd start a general discussion here as it seems most other armies have one and it'd be cool to discuss how people are feeling about the BDSM space elves

[MoGuy]

I feel like we have a fantastic base for a codex to build upon. Most of our units are good or even great. There are only a few things I would like to see changed. For example a reason to take the Archon. With characters being near invulnerable if they aren't the nearest model to your opponent's models he doesn't need the 2++. If he would be a strong character-hunter then yes, the 2++ would help him to win duels but his weapons are just not strong enough.

 

I hope we see some cool stratagems/artefacts that let us manipulate morale etc. I could imagine to see one that let's us add +1 to the "No Escape" roll for the Wyches - or just win it outright or one that gives a unit +1 on the "Power from pain" table (or maybe an artefact that does this for D3 units) etc.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I feel like the Archon aura needs to change. At the moment its kinda useless? Most people minmax squads or run them so they're no where near the fight and by turn 4 they're immune to morale. We need more anti-psyker stuff, maybe some way of denying powers?

[MoGuy]

Definitely! Although I think we might get a Stratagem that let's us deny a power that targets one of our units on a 4+ or something along those lines.

[Sawtooth]

Do you feel there are any 'dud' units? Most seem to serve their roles quite well.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Do you feel there are any 'dud' units? Most seem to serve their roles quite well.

The cronos just doesn't seem to do much for me, at best its just floating wounds. The rerolling ones to wound can be nice. Very few of our units have more than one wound to be healed (grotesques, characters and talos). I agree though everything in the army has its role and can do that role well.

On another note has anyone had any luck with wyches? For me they can work well against horde armies and units but start to struggle against anything above t3 (ork boys and marines) unless you give them +1 strength but then they're not as tough and die quickly. Lelith Hesperax suffers from the same problem, shes a combat monster but her strength lets her down

[MoGuy]

Yeah there are some units that need some adjustments:

 

• Grotesques are quite meh. They really need 4 wounds and a price drop. 
• The Cronos is just plain bad. Re-rolling 1s to wound is nice but not worth 100+ points and with just 3 attacks at -1AP it hardly does any damage, which means it can hardly heal any models. It needs to drop in points or increase in melee-proficiency.
• The Talos is also below average. It should have -2AP at least. Make Chain-Flails something like D3 attacks per attack to be worth taking as an anti-horde variant etc.
• Bloodbrides are too expensive, especially since Wyches can get the same base-stats with the +1 attack drug. A slight points decrease would be nice and maybe something like a +1 to the "No Escape" rule to make them stand out more.
• Would be nice if Hellions got the ability to deepstrike like other Jump-Infantry.
• The +1T from the Haemonculus is nice on himself but buffing Grotesques to T6 is hardly noticeable. S4 attacks still wound them on 5+. The only difference is against heavy bolters or Assault Cannons. Would be nice if the Haemy could restore D3 wounds to a model.

 

What our army really needs is some more synergy between units. I hope we will get some stratagems/WT/artefacts that help us here.

[Spiritual Liege]

I heard about a Webway strike stratagem in Chapter Approved, from what I heard its just a regular 1cp deepstriking stratagem. 

[Slips]

Its the same as the Craftworlds one; 1 unit for 1CP, 2 units for 3CP

[TrawlingCleaner]

I heard about a Webway strike stratagem in Chapter Approved, from what I heard its just a regular 1cp deepstriking stratagem.

That could be pretty useful, teleporting in grotesques or something scary into their backlines for on turn 2 ad at that point we have reroll failed charge rolls.

 

On another note how are people fairing against psyker heavy lists? I feel like I might have to take a farseer to help out (not 100% how allies work in 8th)

[Rhivan]

Reavers, Hellions, Talos, Cronos, Bloodbrides, and Grotesques I find are dud units. 

 

Kabalite Warriors, Raiders, Mandrakes, Ravagers, Haemonculi, and Clawed Fiends I'm finding are doing remarkably well. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Reavers, Hellions, Talos, Cronos, Bloodbrides, and Grotesques I find are dud units.

 

Kabalite Warriors, Raiders, Mandrakes, Ravagers, Haemonculi, and Clawed Fiends I'm finding are doing remarkably well.

I find that the Haemonculus units except cronos are very niche. They're good monster and heavily arnoured infantry killers as most have high strength/poison weapons otherwise they tend to get overwhelmed against horde type units.

Archons are great if you don't take the huskblade, strength 3 vs literally everything sucks. May as well take an agoniser although I kind of wish everyone could take an electrocorrosive whip, those things are ace

[Scribe]

So not sure if this is the place to ask, but it seemed as good as any other.

 

Is the old 5th Edition Venom spam list working in 8th?

 

I'm in this weird place of not knowing what I want to play, and having a number of armies building towards completion, but others keep calling, such as my old and sold, Dark Eldar.

 

Essentially little more than Trueborn, Warriors, Venom's and a few Ravagers.

 

Does that work these days?

[E_50_Panzer]

I haven't been following the meta much at all, but just in theory, if you spam splinter cannons on trueborn on a venom with more splinter cannons you get legendary anti-infantry as before. So yeah, I'm going to say those units still work just as well, if not even better because of 8th's tendency to favor hordes and large piles of dice, and DE now lasting longer on the table. (Well, that's what I seem to get from all my games so far) Not to mention Dark Lances on Ravagers are amazing.

[SpiritFox22]

Honestly I've been having it a bit rough in my area.  Though my meta tends to either be maxed hoards or Razorback spam.  But that's more due to my old ultra aggressive play style where I expected to win or lose round one, which still happens but more from me not leveraging my advantages.

 

So far I've noticed a few things when I don't jump headfirst into the entire enemies gun-line.

 

The Good

1) Mandrakes are king for :cussing with opponents characters turns 2-3 thanks to their deepstrike and guns usually averaging 1-2 mortal wounds on a 5 man squad.

2) Venom spam isn't as powerful as it used to be due to Splinter cannons being Rapid 3, but are still a good option.

3) Diss Cannons are flat out superior to Dark lances on Ravagers from my experience.

 

The Meh

1) Kabalite Warriors are decent, don't really expect them to do much since the old "Dies to a stiff breeze unless in cover" clause is still in effect.

2) Wyches aren't instantly ignored anymore since if you give a unit the +2" movement they're a fast trap unit and can soak some fire now.

 

The Junk

1) All the HQ's aren't really worth much minus the Court

2) Wracks, they're borderline useless from what I've played, the only fun weapon they get they can only take 1 of and the damage output of it ensures it can never make it's points back before it gets wiped off the map.

[Dr. Clock]

I'm having some success based on an MSU beta-strike build focused on:

 

1) Scourges: I take 3x6 in most games; two units with blasters and another with lances. Turn two or three the enemy back line is gonna have a big problem if they've left any pocket to drop into. This nets me enough FA for an Outrider Detachment if I have points for a third budget HQ.

 

2) Mandrakes: Help the Scourges avoid unfavorable combats and stack mortal wounds. Always useful even if their kill count isn't super high.

 

3) Warrior Venoms. Scoring with some teeth to jump on unwary units that approach your deployment. For me these mostly stay out of sight turn 1-2 before pouncing when the skulking/jumping units turn up. Loss of range for full effect is a bit annoying, but understandable. I only run two venoms though; the third Troop is usually just 5 infantry Kabalites who do fine as campers just to get the CP for 3 Troops. Rather have more Scourges than the third Venom mostly lol.

 

4) Assault Raiders. I throw a Court and a unit of Grots in a pair of Raiders for turn 2-3 charges. These are my most aggressive movers in turn 1/2, but they're a bit of a distraction - the meat of the army is in shooting. Aim for enemy Troops and you can't go far wrong... One of these 'packages' is usually sniped out by enemy HQ/melee hitters/jump units, but the longer they tie up high value stuff the better off the Scourges are - baiting heavy hitters to centre with the melee units means that the Scourges DZ is harder to get to in late game.

 

5) Obligatory shooty skimmers. Only have 1 Ravager thus far, but this is usually complemented by a converted Hornet and/or Warp Hunter (my list is more Corsair themed that Commorite in actual fact : P)

 

In sum, I dispense entirely with the idea of getting first turn to focus on getting those 4-5 drop units so that I can deploy a bit more reactively. Then it's a game of keepaway/sniping for turn 1 and 2 and then turn 3-4 is 'smash face' followed by clean up.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Had a game yesterday against grey knights and found that a haemonculus with the crucible is nasty and can do a lot of damage if you get them in the middle of groups of enemies especially dreadknights. I only wish that it was more than one use because it's literally the only thing we do against psykers

[Zamtro]

I'm wondering what the best option for a HQ is, and to be honest its looking more and more like a Haemonculus with the Relic pistol and Electrocorrisive whip, plus the crucible which seems to be free? The Archon has no invul once his shadow field fails, and really his only weapon option is the Agoniser, and thats 1 D which sucks.

 

Anyone tried heat lances yet? I've got a box of scourges to build, and they're expensive but i don't like running single weapon type squads, so maybe 2 lances, 2 blasters or something along those lines.

[TrawlingCleaner]

But at the same time the haemonculus only has a +5 invuln, he can do truck loads of damage but against heavier hitters he starts to faulter, I wish that he gave a +1 to feel no pain in a bubble to all coven units. Sure +1 toughness is great but the coven units don't have great saves

[WarriorFish]

Interesting reading, I'm looking to be quite heavy on my FA so hearing of their strengths is good. I'd like to have a fair number of Warriors and Wyches to support but it sounds like they're restricted in role.

[Dr. Clock]

None of the stock HQs are 'really worth it' in my experience, but they also aren't super expensive. The choice is pretty academic in all honesty, just based on what the unit is going to be doing. I've taken one of each in a number of games and it's... fine.

 

It's true: if the agonizer was D2 or had a -3 AP then the Archon might be more viable; likewise if the husk blade actually got you to S:4 and/or gave you as much AP as a power sword : P

 

As-is, stock DE HQs just aren't that scary, and we have to rely on the other parts of the list. I haven't tried the special characters... In all honesty Drazhar looks like fun with an Incubi unit (hitting on 2s all day!) and is still pretty cheap under 150 points. Likewise Lelith; 3++ is decent and -4 AP in quite good, for even less than Drazhar. Of course to get any more mileage out of her I'd have to take at least one Wych Cult unit. Next game maybe lol. 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Dr. Clock]

Interesting reading, I'm looking to be quite heavy on my FA so hearing of their strengths is good. I'd like to have a fair number of Warriors and Wyches to support but it sounds like they're restricted in role.

 

I have not really got wyches to work for me, no.

 

Larger numbers of Warriors might work out okay, and it's true that DE can probably take one of the cheapest Battalions. Something like 2x5 infantry campers, 2x5 in venoms and 2x5 in Raiders would give you quite a bit of flexibility for a low point cost. After that you can lowball Elites and HQ while picking up a couple more venoms or Raiders, and then invest the rest of your points in HS and FA. Should be feasible over 1500 points, just don't expect to ever go first...

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[WhatTheBlazes]

HQ's are disappointing - honestly not sure what to do with them really - I played yesterday and my Archons had nothing to do except die (ok, one of them mulched some skitarii), whereas my craftworld detachment really punched above its weight. Farseers and Warlocks are *amazing*. 

 

Kabalite Warriors in Venoms are fine but not exceptional. Mandrakes are excellent units, however - I think two of them will be mandatory in my future lists. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by WhatTheBlazes

[WarriorFish]

My plan was to have a couple of cheap Succubi to do HQ, I don't feel that there's much to write home about either. Stick them near some squads and send them in to poke something... if they die they weren't good enough :P

 

Good to hear about Mandrakes too, I might make my second box my first "new" DE project!

[WhatTheBlazes]

My plan was to have a couple of cheap Succubi to do HQ, I don't feel that there's much to write home about either. Stick them near some squads and send them in to poke something... if they die they weren't good enough

 

Good to hear about Mandrakes too, I might make my second box my first "new" DE project!

 

I think that archons and succubi would be a long way to being solved if they were allowed to take jetbikes/scourge wings/skyboards. Or, give our raiders and venoms an extra transport slot - anything to help the mobility and stop them from requiring an entire boat for themselves. Meaningful auras would be nice as well!