Resin Required ?

[BattleBrotherJohn]

Would people say that FW resin tank kits are required for a " competitive " army list ? 

 

Just to clarify before I go any further my "competitive " is an army list that will be fun to play with / against  at my local gaming group, that will last more than one turn on the table ( unless I am up against the most WAAC type who just loves rolling dice for 20 minutes and the next 2 hours proclaiming their own genius ).

 

I am not a skilled model builder so the thought of building the likes of the Spartan or Proteus LR leaves me feeling intimidated ( plus the cost of such kits - and the fear of messing them up - leave me thinking " I cannot do that " ).

 

Plastic kits - no problems - many years of building them means I know what I am doing and none of the worries of warped resin that needs heating , carving , sanding etc.

 

SO...

 

I am wondering how an army with just plastic tanks ( Predators , Land Raiders etc ) would do in the HH game ?  

 

Maybe running plastic Imperial Knight allies in place of the like of the big stuff like Glaives ? 

 

Or dropping tanks all together and go for something like a Terminator heavy list backed up by big lascannon squads ? 

 

Or running an Imperial Knights list made up entirely of the plastic kit version rather than FW models ( again lovely models , but resin...).

 

Hope this is the right place to be posting this .

[K3nn3rs]

[Ficinus]

You could almost certainly make something fun to play with/against with plastic kits.

 

That said, don't be afraid that much of the resin and try easing your way into it. I was also nervous about my first resin models (3 Deimos Rhinos and 2 Laser Destroyer Vindicators). The fact that you have the plastic frame to work off of really helps and makes it a bit easier when fixing warped resin (which just requires a pot of about 140°F/60°C water), since you have a plastic guideline. Go slow and start with the mixed kits before worrying about putting together a a Spartan or Glaive.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Ficinus

[Leif Bearclaw]

To be honest, I find a lot of the 'intimidation factor' of FW/resin kits is kinda overblown anyway. FW kits aren't really all that hard to work with. Most important things being the pre-undercoat wash to remove release agent (varnishing the model before undercoat can help here too) and to wear a dust mask and/or keep things wet while filing them (though I just tend to use a knife rather than a file these days). Granted the warping can be severe, bit a quick soak in boiling water solves the vast majority of those issues.

 

If younger me, who didn't even deal with mouldlines properly, can handle FW kits, so can any hobbyist.

[Kizzdougs]

Yes, it probably can be done, but you'll be depriving yourself of all of the best looking models that are particular to the Heresy. If you don't use resin you will be missing out on one of the best things about 30k. The models.

 

Also, don't be intimidated by the resin kits! The hype and fear around resin is mostly unjustified. I bought my first resin kit pretty early on in my hobby 'career' and didn't have any problems with it, and that was back before the plethora of online videos teaching you how to treat resin kits. If cost is an issue then fair enough, but don't limit yourself because of a fear of resin minis :tu:

[Spiritual Liege]

A lot of the Deimos pattern vehicles can however be converted with some plasticard and skills. Sicarans are quite hard but Deimos Vindicators, Land Raiders, Rhinos and Predators are all doable.

 

Rapiers can also be converted, there are a lot of 3rd party kits that can counts as a Rapier with no problems at all and you can convert them from Kataphrons + heavy weapons, for example.

 

Geedubs makes Contemptors, they look awful yes, but with some green stuff and, again, skills can be made look awesome.

 

Fliers will probably cause problems if you're not a plasticard god but still I've seen some pretty great looking ones. Fire Raptor/Storm Eagle can be done from Stormraven + plasticard but I have heard the work isn't probably worth the time. 

[Kizzdougs]

A lot of the Deimos pattern vehicles can however be converted with some plasticard and skills. Sicarans are quite hard but Deimos Vindicators, Land Raiders, Rhinos and Predators are all doable.

 

Rapiers can also be converted, there are a lot of 3rd party kits that can counts as a Rapier with no problems at all and you can convert them from Kataphrons + heavy weapons, for example.

 

Geedubs makes Contemptors, they look awful yes, but with some green stuff and, again, skills can be made look awesome.

 

Fliers will probably cause problems if you're not a plasticard god but still I've seen some pretty great looking ones. Fire Raptor/Storm Eagle can be done from Stormraven + plasticard but I have heard the work isn't probably worth the time. 

This is all true, but if you have the skills to successfully pull off these types of conversions, then you definitely have enough skill to work with resin... :P

[Spiritual Liege]

That is quite true 

 

But for me it's mostly the cost of FW models, I have some and I handled them okay, they just cost so much. I play 9th Age, AoS, 40k and HH and they all demand my monies (+studies ofc) so I can't casually drop hundreds of pounds into a couple of tanks.

[Grim Dog Studios]

You can easily do all plastic 30k and still be competitive in my opinion.

However, like everyone else has said dont be put off by the FW resin vehicles. Some of them are a hassle to put together, but honestly a few of them are easier than plastic kits in my opinion.

The Sicaran for example, I would rather build a sicaran tank than any plastic tank I can get from GW. It comes in only a few parts and is ridiculously simple to build once you have removed the resin blocks attached to the tracks.

[Kizzdougs]

That is quite true 

 

But for me it's mostly the cost of FW models, I have some and I handled them okay, they just cost so much. I play 9th Age, AoS, 40k and HH and they all demand my monies (+studies ofc) so I can't casually drop hundreds of pounds into a couple of tanks.

We don't have that problem in Australia, because sometimes Forgeworld kits are actually cheaper than the GW alternatives (5 GW plastic Cataphractii cost AUD$115 where as 5 FW Cataphractii with a weapons kit cost aprox. AUD$87)... I guess that's the 'benefit' of living in Australia... :P

[Corswain]

OP, What army are you intending to run? Fists/Templars? Just a guess. :)

Some armies have strong infantry options that you can build out of plastic and as others have said, the plastic tanks can still do well.

 

I think you can go all plastic but some of the easier resin kits (infantry kits or upgrades) might add a little flavour while you get used to working with resin. It’s what I did, start small and experiment then go back and get something a little more challenging.

I started with Legion upgrades and characters, next will be a rhino and some jetbikes, then a sicaran.

I haven’t found resin to be very difficult though.

 

Good luck.

[BattleBrotherJohn]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

Will go away and look over the FW site - see what kits look easy and start from there.

[Riptor]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

Will go away and look over the FW site - see what kits look easy and start from there.

If you are looking for a nice, 'centerpiece' model that screams 30k to dip your toe in to resin then look at the Leviathan.

 

I find it is a very easy kit to build, and if you are looking to magnetize it is also very easy to do so for a beginner. It is also a beautiful looking model, and very effective in game.

[M@verik115]

Its easy to do plastic only. I started with resin when there were no plastics yet, and this was limited to just infantry which is easy to work with. 
Since then I have picked up both horus heresy plastic sets to flesh out the army. 
Other than that I use plastic vehicles due to availability (remember most GW plastic kits are mars pattern vehicles which were around). 
The only resin vehicle I am purchasing now is a sicaran venator. 

Either way, yes you dont need to go resin (it will expand on your army if you do), but its not a prerequisite and all plastic armies are still very playable. 

[Kisada]

remember most GW plastic kits are mars pattern vehicles which were around

 

And yet some people will still look down on Mars pattern vehicles and Indomitus pattern TDA.

Always confused me that FW could put those patterns in their books and "30k purists" will say that those "aren't 30k"

[Kizzdougs]

 

remember most GW plastic kits are mars pattern vehicles which were around

 

And yet some people will still look down on Mars pattern vehicles and Indomitus pattern TDA.

Always confused me that FW could put those patterns in their books and "30k purists" will say that those "aren't 30k"

 

Everyone recognises that Mars pattern vehicles and Indomitus armour are okay in the Heresy (Mars pattern more so than Indomitus armour), they're just not as flavourful as Deimos pattern vehicles and Cataphractii and Tartaros armour. When you see Deimos, Cataphractii, and Tartaros on the table you instantly think of the Heresy and 30k (even though they can also be used perfectly fine in games of 40k). When you see Mars pattern and Idomitus on the table there can be a moment of uncertainty on whether or not it is a 30k or 40k army (even though they can all be used in either 30k or 40k).

 

So, Mars vehicles and Indomitus Terminators are perfectly fine (although Indomitus would be fairly limited fluff wise, and is subpar rules wise) they're just not as instantly recognisable as the alternatives.

 

 

 

Edit: personally I much prefer the aesthetic of Deimos, Cataphractii, and Tartaros armour for Heresy armies (in general) and I try to avoid kits more commonly associated with 40k when I'm building a 30k army. That's just my personal preference and is purely subjective. If that makes me an 'elitist' then I'll happily wear the badge :)

Edited November 21, 2017 by Kizzdougs

[Kisada]

I am building an Imperial Fist legion ... how exactly is the indomitus with vigil pattern storm shield inferior to cataphractii?

 

And as for being recognizable as 30k ... that's the strange part of it ... box dreads, mars pattern, indomitus TDA ... all officially supported by FW in both fluff and images and even though you acknowledge that, you still have a reservation against it.  Then other players, maybe newer players, will read that and then can take it the wrong way ... I know I did when I first started looking into playing 30k.

 

One's personal preference for their own army is obviously completely up to them and doesn't make them elitist ... its when they express their dislike for other people's completely fluffy and officially backed armies and models that it crosses the line to elitism.

[M@verik115]

Remember I am an old player and to me deimos vehicles are the original 40K vehicles lol. 
So much so that I use an old school metal 40 deimos predator and whirlwind for 30K. 
In the end do what makes you happy. 
Its one thing if you are using aquila armour for your thousand sons (I even let that slide with noobs), but using legitimate armour and vehicle marks (whether plastic or resin) is perfectly fine. In the end, we are all just grown men with little toys. 


Edit: I used to be an elitist, obviously preferring the resin sculpts to the plastic ones. Hell I have a fair amount of various FW items and they are always better sculpts and more 'realistic' especially in dimensions to the GW plastics, but in the end elitism damages our hobby. 
If you dont want to play someone who uses a plastic GW tank then that is your prerogative. I just expect those who do use them to be aware that they are using them, because they know that they were around at the time, not because it was just simply cheaper and easier to get hold of the GW ones. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by M@verik115

[Fenbain]

I am building an Imperial Fist legion ... how exactly is the indomitus with vigil pattern storm shield inferior to cataphractii?

 

And as for being recognizable as 30k ... that's the strange part of it ... box dreads, mars pattern, indomitus TDA ... all officially supported by FW in both fluff and images and even though you acknowledge that, you still have a reservation against it. Then other players, maybe newer players, will read that and then can take it the wrong way ... I know I did when I first started looking into playing 30k.

 

One's personal preference for their own army is obviously completely up to them and doesn't make them elitist ... its when they express their dislike for other people's completely fluffy and officially backed armies and models that it crosses the line to elitism.

The difference is the FW rules aren't the complete picture and sometimes don't take into account all the fluff. For example, Mars-pattern vehicles were absolutely around during the Heresy. But, fluffwise, they weren't the same as Deimos-pattern vehicles. The Mars-pattern stuff was less armoured etc. than the Deimos-pattern stuff, but on the other hand was much easier to produce, maintain and repair. So there are forces that it makes narrative sense in and others less so.

 

Similarly, Indomitus TDA is allowed according to FW rules, but fluffwise was produced very late in the Great Crusade. It was tested by the VIIth Legion and the designs were adapted by the Xth Legion for their own Gorgon TDA. So while you could justifiably explain a character or two using Indomitus TDA in any Legion, maybe as a reward etc., the only Legion who should be using whole squads of it are the Imperial Fists or at a push the Iron Hands. And even then, depending on the era of your force, should be at least partially converted to show it's prototype nature.

 

There's other examples of stuff like this, including MKVI and Leviathan Dreadnoughts, where the FW rules aren't the full picture but you get the point.

 

As for elitists within the HH community, I completely agree that someone having an issue with an army solely because they haven't exclusively used expensive resin models etc. is being an elitist and isn't acceptable. However, having an issue with a force because it includes options which aren't fluffy or don't make narrative sense is not elitist.

[Kizzdougs]

I am building an Imperial Fist legion ... how exactly is the indomitus with vigil pattern storm shield inferior to cataphractii?

It's not, but only if you take the Storm Shields and not many Legions have access to storm shields. Indomitus is probably more suitable for the Imperial Fists than it is for any other Legion so no complaints there. I still prefer the aesthetic of Cataphractii and Tartaros, but like I said, that's just personal taste.

 

And as for being recognizable as 30k ... that's the strange part of it ... box dreads, mars pattern, indomitus TDA ... all officially supported by FW in both fluff and images and even though you acknowledge that, you still have a reservation against it.  Then other players, maybe newer players, will read that and then can take it the wrong way ... I know I did when I first started looking into playing 30k.

Like I said it's a personal aesthetic preference. When you look at a Cataphractii Terminator standing next to an Indomitus Terminator which one says 'Heresy'? They're both perfectly legal, supported by the rules, and are referenced in the fluff (Indomitus fairly rarely), but one is clearly associated with 30k and the other 40k. I personally prefer units that are more closely associated with the Heresy. That's just me.

 

One's personal preference for their own army is obviously completely up to them and doesn't make them elitist ... its when they express their dislike for other people's completely fluffy and officially backed armies and models that it crosses the line to elitism.

Yeah, I can agree with all of that. I always try to keep my comments positive when commenting on other peoples' work, and if really don't like what I see I just move on and put it out of my mind. I suppose I usually internalise my 'elitism' and try my best not to let it effect other people's enjoyment of the hobby.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Kizzdougs

[Dantay VI]

I would think the main difference between 30K Indomitus and 40K Indomitus is the lack of crux terminatus in 30K.

 

Wasnt it said that the crux conferred the invulnerable save as it had a shard of the Emperors armour incorporated into it, from the battle of Terra?

 

Although you could call the crux something else and use it as a veterancy symbol?

[M@verik115]

I would think the main difference between 30K Indomitus and 40K Indomitus is the lack of crux terminatus in 30K.

 

Wasnt it said that the crux conferred the invulnerable save as it had a shard of the Emperors armour incorporated into it, from the battle of Terra?

 

Although you could call the crux something else and use it as a veterancy symbol?

I always went with it being imperial propaganda. There is no way it contains a shard of the emperor's armour. 

Its like hey Timmy wanna buy this rock?

No way!

But this rock is a special edition rock that was touched by the emperor (1 of 100000000 limited run).

OH BOY YES! :D 

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

I always went with it being imperial propaganda. There is no way it contains a shard of the emperor's armour. 

Its like hey Timmy wanna buy this rock?

No way!

But this rock is a special edition rock that was touched by the emperor (1 of 100000000 limited run).

OH BOY YES!

 

Some do, some don't. This is actually a plot point in Pandorax, for better or worse. The DA's crack open the crux on a sufficiently old suit of TDA, as use the armour fragment within (being a holy relic, touched by the Emperor himself etc.) as the payload in a round from Azreal's combi bolter to slay the super end boss Daemon in the finale. Make of that what you will .

[M@verik115]

 

 

I always went with it being imperial propaganda. There is no way it contains a shard of the emperor's armour. 

Its like hey Timmy wanna buy this rock?

No way!

But this rock is a special edition rock that was touched by the emperor (1 of 100000000 limited run).

OH BOY YES!

 

Some do, some don't. This is actually a plot point in Pandorax, for better or worse. The DA's crack open the crux on a sufficiently old suit of TDA, as use the armour fragment within (being a holy relic, touched by the Emperor himself etc.) as the payload in a round from Azreal's combi bolter to slay the super end boss Daemon in the finale. Make of that what you will .

 

Because the Dark Angels never lie right? :P 

[Dantay VI]

I havent read Pandorax so I was going from the old RT days canon. Plus lack of Crux on Legion models.

For example FW do legion tartaros wiyh no crux and standard tartaros (40k) with a crux on the shoulder