The Devastation of Baal- Discussion

[TheRealMcCagh]

A huge part of that dialogue that people are overlooking is Guilliman always says 'we,' not 'you.' He isn't condemning the BA's for being so callous and saying they need to be more like Ultramarines. He is saying the entire system that the Adeptus Astartes as a whole use is flawed. And Baal can stay a radioactive dump because no one lives there anyways. They entire planet has always been a giant red desert that the Blood Angel's use exclusively. Recruits were drawn from the moons, which were once much more vibrant worlds. Even Sanguinius was making Baal Secundus a nicer place to live according to the novel Dante (killing all the mutants probably helps too).

[mc warhammer]

i mean, why would't gulliman want to do this? makes total sense fro his pov

 

 

granted, this is with my limited knowledge of current events. but i don't see the issues

[Ascanius]

The Primaris Blood Angels arrive at Baal with the Indomitus Crusade around 70 years after the fall of Cadia and Guilliman's return. The Devastation of Baal establishes that time passed much more slowly in the region of space around Baal once the Great Rift opened than elsewhere, so the fight against Leviathan was still I full swing by the time Guilliman arrived.

 

Point being, it's perfectly possible that no Primaris Blood Angels would have fallen to the Black Rage in 70 years, because I'd imagine at least some the original type of Space Marines could go a similar length of time before experiencing it.

[Scribe]

The Devastation of Baal establishes that time passed much more slowly in the region of space around Baal once the Great Rift opened than elsewhere, so the fight against Leviathan was still I full swing by the time Guilliman arrived..

 

lol thats cute.

[Phoebus]

I actually don’t mind temporal anomalies of that sort being written into novels, etc. Hell, I’d take it to an even greater extreme. The sort of thing shown in the movie “Edge of Tomorrow” would be perfectly 40k - even more so if EVERY Guardsman present was aware of the loop, yet powerless to do anything about it (unless they were a psyker of some sort).

[Marshal Rohr]

What caused the time distortion? Is a portion of the rift physically in the Baal System? If not I can’t see any plausible reason for the distortion.

[Ascanius]

Yeah, basically. The Cicatrix Maledictum opened and poured out Warp storms, one of which affected the Baal system.

 

Chapter Twenty-Four

 

Baal endured a cataclysm unfolding across the entire galaxy.

 

Darkness came to Baal as a shock of purple fire. The three worlds were engulfed in a haze of boiling energy that first swallowed the stars then obscured each of the trio from the other.

 

. . .

 

In the Baal system hundreds of thousands of tyranids died, their brain stems reduced to smoking mulch by psychic feedback. Aggressive void predators became drifting hulks in the space of an instant. In the strategium Dante collapsed, unconscious. Thousands of Space Marines of the Blood followed him. Many awoke with no memory of who they were, their scarred minds full of visions of Sanguinius’ death. The end of their own lives in madness and blood beckoned.

The Cicatrix Maledictum had opened.

 

Chapter Thirty:

 

Karlaen and the rest had done their best to bring Dante up to date on all that had happened in the wider Imperium. Since Cryptus fell less than six months had passed from Dante’s subjective point of view. Beyond Baal, seventy years had gone by. Time had been bent out of shape by the opening of the Great Rift.

 

On the other matter:

 

Where we are flawed, they are not. There is little, if any, sign of the flaw among the Primaris Space Marines. Corbulo tells me that where he failed, Belisarius Cawl has succeeded, eliminating the instability at source. Not one of them in the long, hard years of the Indomitus Crusade has fallen to the Black Rage. When queried on the thirst, the majority are perplexed. They simply do not know of it. Corbulo is amazed.

 

GW has previewed that Primaris Blood Angels do feel the Red Thirst, of course, but I guess it could have come out in time - Dark Imperium is largely set after the Indomitus Crusade, 112 years after Guilliman's return, so it's about 40 years later than this. I don't recall any Primaris Blood Angels in that novel, but there's a Primaris Dark Angel.

[DarkChaplain]

I actually don’t mind temporal anomalies of that sort being written into novels, etc. Hell, I’d take it to an even greater extreme. The sort of thing shown in the movie “Edge of Tomorrow” would be perfectly 40k - even more so if EVERY Guardsman present was aware of the loop, yet powerless to do anything about it (unless they were a psyker of some sort).

 

I'd like Peter Fehervari to write something like that. Seems like a theme that'd be right up his creative alley.

 

And just a note: "Edge of Tomorrow" is based on "All You Need is Kill" by Hiroshi Sakurazaka, and the novel is generall better. The movie changed a LOT of things, with Cage being rewritten a great deal, the romance stuff got shoved in hard and Rita replaced the roles of various characters to push it. The end is also entirely different.

I'd argue that the novel is drastically more grimdark, and would recommend reading it.

[pandion40]

There is one Blood Angel Primaris in Dark Imperium but he’s hardly mentioned, all we learn is his name and that he dyed his grey non combat robe red.

[Marshal Rohr]

Interesting. Strong, supernatural gravity distortions causing time dilation like that would explain why it’s so hard to cross the great rift and the ships take so much damage. The amount of energy it takes to cross the rift is probably something the ships themselves weren’t engineered for.

[Scribe]

 

On the other matter:

 

Where we are flawed, they are not. There is little, if any, sign of the flaw among the Primaris Space Marines. Corbulo tells me that where he failed, Belisarius Cawl has succeeded, eliminating the instability at source. Not one of them in the long, hard years of the Indomitus Crusade has fallen to the Black Rage. When queried on the thirst, the majority are perplexed. They simply do not know of it. Corbulo is amazed.

 

GW has previewed that Primaris Blood Angels do feel the Red Thirst, of course, but I guess it could have come out in time - Dark Imperium is largely set after the Indomitus Crusade, 112 years after Guilliman's return, so it's about 40 years later than this. I don't recall any Primaris Blood Angels in that novel, but there's a Primaris Dark Angel.

 

 

I like Time as a plaything tropes, so I'm good with the rest just from an entertainment angle, but I hate this part here.

 

I'm sure you are all surprised.

[Marshal Rohr]

They would have to have been recruits not from Baal or taken from the legion like other Primaris.

[DogWelder]

 

I actually don’t mind temporal anomalies of that sort being written into novels, etc. Hell, I’d take it to an even greater extreme. The sort of thing shown in the movie “Edge of Tomorrow” would be perfectly 40k - even more so if EVERY Guardsman present was aware of the loop, yet powerless to do anything about it (unless they were a psyker of some sort).

 

I'd like Peter Fehervari to write something like that. Seems like a theme that'd be right up his creative alley.

 

And just a note: "Edge of Tomorrow" is based on "All You Need is Kill" by Hiroshi Sakurazaka, and the novel is generall better. The movie changed a LOT of things, with Cage being rewritten a great deal, the romance stuff got shoved in hard and Rita replaced the roles of various characters to push it. The end is also entirely different.

I'd argue that the novel is drastically more grimdark, and would recommend reading it.

 

 

The romance stuff was the worst :/ Why do western films always try to force a relationship whenever a female and male character get within five feet of each other? -_-

[TheRealMcCagh]

It's going to be a little awkward for all those scout/neophytes Dante sent away right before the battle. Coming back to you ravaged home world where all of your brothers got beat to hell, and you just walk around in your polished armor that doesn't have a scratch. Sitting in the back while all the survivors get their recognition for the battle, probably talking about it non stop for the next hundred years. And to top it off, since the Hall of Sarcophagi got destroyed, they were the last batch of normal marines that the Blood Angels can make.

[Scribe]

And to top it off, since the Hall of Sarcophagi got destroyed, they were the last batch of normal marines that the Blood Angels can make.

 

Oh good to see they are forcing a narrative around squatting normal marines. :D

[DogWelder]

What were the exact numbers of surviving Blood Angels? I assume it should be a hundred or so? If that's the case it would be a better idea to just make the Chapter 100% Primaris and stick the remaining survivors in training roles. Or assign them to the new-found Chapters as liasons/trainers.

[Robbienw]

Around 300. That includes the 200 or so from the diamor taskforce who returned with the indomitus crusade force

[TheRealMcCagh]

Dante says he expects the total number survivors to number less than 300. But almost every mortal left on Baal who can survive the process will become a Primaris Marine. That actually leaves the Blood Angels in a much better position than I originally thought. It means even the new Primaris Marines will at least be Baalites and know the Blood Angel customs. 

 

Would anyone who read Traitors Hate mind spoiling the end for me? I know the Angel's Blade side, but I'm not sure what all that business at the end was. Did it have anything to do with the Blood Angels?

[DarkChaplain]

Sounds like better survival rates than back during the Sin of Damnation incident...

[TheRealMcCagh]

And better than the 7th Black Crusade. It's apparently just the fourth worst losses that Dante himself has seen the Blood Angels suffer. Dude has seen some apocalyptic events for the chapter if an entire hive fleet invasion is just barely in the top five worst things Dante has seen

[Ascanius]

I think all of the Primaris Space Marines that Cawl provided to Guilliman for the Indomitus Crusade would have been post-Heresy Legion/chapter recruits diverted into the Primaris project.

 

There may have been more recruited and created after the Crusade began, but Dark Imperium seemed to me to imply that wasn't the case; instead, my impression was that Guilliman was just using the original Primaris in mixed-bloodline units until the time came to hive off the sons of Sanguinius or Russ or whoever en masse to reinforce existing chapters or found new ones.

[b1soul]

On a related note, the setting keeps emphasising temporal Warp travel anomalies...I'm surprised that there aren't more 30Kers popping up in 40K and vice versa. How about a late DAoT science vessel popping up in 40K?

[Scribe]

They had one in one of the Space Marine battles stories, it even had an AI. :D

[DarkChaplain]

And it was also a Guy Haley novel: Death of Integrity. Excellent entry, one of the best in the series. The Blood Drinkers were incredibly well handled with their dual-nature of artistic, noble sons of Sanguinius and monsters waiting to pounce. All contrasted by the Novamarines and their exemplary adherence to the Codex Astartes.

[Jareddm]

In fact it was the one we recommended to you on your Space Marine Battle thread back in October :D