Chapter approved leaks

[Feral_80]

Yea I suppose printing balanced stuff in the first place was too complicated a system 

 

This system obviously does not work. If you want to continuously put out updates, FAQs, tweaks, and point changes, then you need to go digital only. Make all codexes available as free pdfs to download, and update the file versions whenever you wish. I have zero reasons to buy any printed materials now anyway.

 

This way, they just piss off people.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Sweet Jesus this is annoying to keep track of now. I don't know if everything is getting more expensive and thus it's all relative, or if we're just being shafted.

 

I was trying to be optimistic about this, but my FW Guard models are now very much shelved. Especially my beloved Thunderbolt, which is now so expensive that I can't really justify taking it.

[H311fi5h]

The Leman Russ Annihilator might be a bit more interesting now. 182 points for 5 lascannon shots. 

[Captain_Krash]

Literally speechless at this blatant stupidity. This new and improved chapter approved makes zero sense...I...I don't even know if I want to play Guard anymore. 

 

Krash

Edited November 25, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Reading this thread just killed the hobby mojo I was finally starting JG to build up. Thanks GW.

 

This just smacks of GW pandering to all the marine players whining about Guard actually being competitive and there being more parity in the game than previous

 

I think I’m just going to go paint some fantasy abs Blood Bowl stuff this weekend.

[Harrowmaster]

I think the meltagun nerf was especially unwarranted, it wasn't OP to begin with, making it 17 points means I'm not likely to field them at all.

 

*Retreats into 30K*

[TheShredder]

I think the meltagun nerf was especially unwarranted, it wasn't OP to begin with, making it 17 points means I'm not likely to field them at all.

 

*Retreats into 30K*

 

It's also yet another reason to not touch Veterans with a barge pole.

[Lord Marshal]

The pandering to the "Conscripts are literally the most broken thing in the world ever" audience is getting pathetic now. At this rate, they'll make 'em WS 1/BS 1.

 

I'm laughing my arse off at the previous "b-b-but 8th is literally perfect! GW balance will be amazing!" nonsense we had being touted for the first few months. It's as apparent as ever GW still have absolutely no flaming idea what they're doing.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Lord Marshal

[momerathe]

Guys, I know that it sucks and many of the point changes are stupid, but let's try to maintain a sense of perspective. Guard are still in a great place in 8th edition; I don't think there's any call for giving up on them.

[TheShredder]

The pandering to the "Conscripts are literally the most broken thing in the world ever" audience is getting pathetic now. At this rate, they'll make 'em WS 1/BS 1.

 

If nothing else, they could have at least removed the previous nerfs. 

 

 

I'm laughing my arse off at the previous "b-b-but 8th is literally perfect! GW balance will be amazing!" nonsense we had being touted for the first few months. It's as apparent as ever GW still have absolutely no flaming idea what they're doing.

 

They also appear to think that a balance patch is something customers should have to pay for. 

[H311fi5h]

It feels like they want to reduce guard down to a single play style: LasPlas infantry squads + Leman Russ Punishers/Battle tanks. 

Consricpts nerfed, artillery nerfed, psykers nerfed. We can still build really strong lists, no doubt. But the variety of viable powerful lists is reduced massively.

What happened to Chimeras, Veterans, Hydras, half of the Russ variants? Are we supposed to simply forget they exist?

I'm really surprised the Shadowsword didn't see a price increase though.

[Mitchverr]

 

Tirak from the forum did a lil review of the guard bits which i just saw, thought I would link it here for people to see.

[duz_]

I have to admit Im a bit mystified, disappointed and confused about some of these changes.

 

It would seem that they're starting to tailor points specifically for the hyper competitive scene for the top 30% of players who are happy to spam "high efficiency" units.

 

Which is a shame as that's such a small subset.

 

I feel like I will be moving to PL for most friendly games with the introduction of CA.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

They said the changes are based on community feedback; and the 40k community at large are basically warp spawn ha. Look at all the dakka threads about conscripts, mostly from people that haven't even played games in 8th edition.

 

I think it's important to send GW your own feedback and further everyone needs to suggest, to GW, a better system of balance beyond the shouting mob making knee jerk assumptions.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

@Gunzhard - good point, and we should be measured and rational in our feedback. One can hope they’ll listen.

 

@_duz - I was thinking the same for friendly games and frankly that’s what I think they want us to do.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I have to admit Im a bit mystified, disappointed and confused about some of these changes.

 

It would seem that they're starting to tailor points specifically for the hyper competitive scene for the top 30% of players who are happy to spam "high efficiency" units.

 

Which is a shame as that's such a small subset.

 

I feel like I will be moving to PL for most friendly games with the introduction of CA.

 

Points really are only supposed to be for competitive games - if they do not rein in the excesses of the tournament gamers then they are just not doing their job.  For general gaming I have been finding PL better anyway so I think if you make the switch you may find it quite enjoyable.

 

As a pure competitive army the overall effect is not actually bad for AM, the only things seriously competing at that tippety-top level with them were Chaos Soup and just maybe Ynnari and Ultramarine gunlines. Well Ynnari got hit so hard in a FAQ they may not get back up again until they get a codex. One of the core spammed elements of the Chaos Soup mix - the Malefic Sorcerer - took the biggest points hike of anything remotely "normal scale" in the game. Meanwhile each element of a typical Ultramarine gunline (Roboute, Ravens, Razorbacks, anything with Twin Assault Cannons etc) took its own points increase resulting in an overall build that is significantly weaker. I honestly think that with the top level field around them weakened AM players are in a better place after next Saturday than they were before.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well at least GW is smiting other armies equally with the nerf bat. That makes me feel a bit better.

[Tirak]

Unless you played a list that was non standard, I.E. air support focused with some artillery backup. Nerfs to things like the Earthshaker Carriage were completely unwarranted, and the nerf to aircraft was just absolutely insane as aircraft were reined in when the Boots on the Ground rule came about. Conscripts up to 4 points was gratuitous and going after our Astropaths with a meathook and ill intentions almost feels vindictive.

 

I don't agree at all that points are meant to only be done for Tournament players, nor do I agree that an excess of "Tournament Gamers" is a problem at all. A competitive wargame is fun. I love crafting lists and puzzling them together out of points, I find doing so out of PL to be considerably less compelling and less precise. The cost increases don't make sense for the vast majority of things and it irritates me greatly to see them try to push out creative guard play.

[Mitchverr]

So, not to sound like the "its aliens" guy, but I was thinking, alot of the units hit were FW, older FW.... Perhaps they are looking at elimination through force of the older stuff.

 

Also as tirak said, much of the nerfs hit the more fluff/non standard guard, so the "for top level play" side of things doesnt seem to sit right with me, they hit non comp equipment as hard if not harder in several instances.

 

I would love to think that they actually put thought into it, but I suspect, heavily given the time it takes to make a book and print it and ship it that this book was written without taking much thought into that.

[Tallarn Commander]

Hmm, I just went back and tweaked the lists I've used during my 8th edition games by incorporating the new points values. I found the Chapter Approved changes are easy to accommodate in my lists.

 

By downgrading a few sentinel lascannons to autocannons and a few other tweaks such as dropping the odd lieutenant or captain, I was able to some keep the same number of psykers and BS3+ meltagun command and stormtrooper squads in my lists. I encourage ya'all to plug the new points values into your lists. You too might find the Chapter Approved changes aren't a big deal.

[H311fi5h]

Hmm, I just went back and tweaked the lists I've used during my 8th edition games by incorporating the new points values. I found the Chapter Approved changes are easy to accommodate in my lists.

 

By downgrading a few sentinel lascannons to autocannons and a few other tweaks such as dropping the odd lieutenant or captain, I was able to some keep the same number of psykers and BS3+ meltagun command and stormtrooper squads in my lists. I encourage ya'all to plug the new points values into your lists. You too might find the Chapter Approved changes aren't a big deal.

 

It's not a big deal for most units (except conscripts and Astropaths).

What infuriates me personally is the complete randomness of some changes. Such as the points increase for Meltaguns. Almost no one was using them before, why would you make them more expensive? They shouldn't cost more than plasma guns. Certainly not 5 points more. 

And while things are nerfed that don't need nerfing, many really needed changes are absent. Where is the point decrease for the Leman Russ Exterminator and Eradicator (also the Vanquisher change is laughable)? Where is a Chimera and Ogryn buff? 

I don't mind the Primaris Psyker, Manticore, Wyvern and Taurox changes. Those are fine. But some things really do look like they haven't spend more than 5 minutes thinking about them. And when you start looking beyond C:AM it gets even worse.

Edited November 25, 2017 by H311fi5h

[Akrim]

So, not to sound like the "its aliens" guy, but I was thinking, alot of the units hit were FW, older FW.... Perhaps they are looking at elimination through force of the older stuff..

I think youre right. The FW artillery units were not competitve before, theyre not even worth taking now - dont know how they figured Quads\Medusas needed an increase.

 

The Conscripts thing has just become nonsense. I ran a couple Valhallan Conscript squads w/ MK45 Lord Commie last night, theyre not that good, 30 T3 wounds disappear quite quickly.

 

A lot of these changes seem to be made by persons with a very slanted view of the game. I usually respond in kind - I just stop buying GW products for a while and encourage others to do the same.

[mertbl]

I can handle yearly points adjustments. Even if they don't make sense to me and only target the hyper competitive. I think all the 8th ed codexes are already written and printed, so we can expect them all to have faq/errata week 2 after release.

 

 

But, I feel like this should be the way it is handled going forward, a single annual faq/errata/points adjustment. No more "oh howling banshees are really good, power swords are now 10 points for them."

[OnboardG1]

Eh fine. The sky hasn't hit me on the head and I'm generally on board with the psyker changes. I'll adapt.

[Plasmablasts]

It would be interesting to know how far in advance of publication their Codices and Chapter Approved are finalised and sent to the printers. Were some of these adjustments already in progress at the time C:AMil was just being released? Might explain why some of the changes don’t seem to reflect people’s feedback.

 

I think the Conscripts points change highlights a problem with the overall downward trend in points costs over recent editions (and also the 8th edition convention of giving points costs per model): there is not much room for fine-tuning if a model costs only three or four points. Maybe they should increase all points costs ten-fold to allow more room for adjustment!