Chapter approved leaks

[Gibbous]

I'm pretty new to the WH40k universe. Started playing about two months before 8th codex came out.

 

From a N00B viewpoint, I bought the BRB and the 8th Index. "All right, cool! Let's do this."

 

Couple months later...AM Codex "Army a little stronger, a little confused, do I use Index or Codex??? Ok, codex rules, but I need index for everything else." 3 books to bring to play.

 

Couple weeks later, "FAQ? WTH is a FAQ? Ok, print these out, forget what it says in the $120 worth of rule books I just bought. Memorize, adapt and overcome."

 

Couple months go by...Ok, now Chapter Approved... GW maniacal laugh, "You just THOUGHT you were going to understand our game!"

 

Me, "For the love of baby Jesus WHY??? This is fun, but there are hundreds of rules and they keep changing!"

 

I'm in IT. I get it, products need updates from time to time. I'm used to change, willing to adapt. Yet, MOST companies vet their release, prior to releasing... MOST games are built to be balanced from the beginning... not revamped every couple of months.... figure out your crap GW!

[TheShredder]

@Gibbous I suspect I'm not allowed (due to forum policy) to recommend that you just pirate Chapter Approved when it comes out.

 

So, instead, I offer you this completely neutral and unrelated smiley: 

 

[Tirak]

Don't see anything in there that nerfs Leman Russes, Infantry Squads, Heavy Weapon Teams (if anything, a small buff) or our various Super-Heavies. So the sky is still firmly in place :)

Unless you danced in that sky with the Imperial Navy, in which case I can assure you that barring the inclusion of the Regiment Keyword on flyers, the sky has most certainly turned to lead, and we are picking up considerable speed on our descent.

[Halfpint100]

 

Don't see anything in there that nerfs Leman Russes, Infantry Squads, Heavy Weapon Teams (if anything, a small buff) or our various Super-Heavies. So the sky is still firmly in place

Unless you danced in that sky with the Imperial Navy, in which case I can assure you that barring the inclusion of the Regiment Keyword on flyers, the sky has most certainly turned to lead, and we are picking up considerable speed on our descent.

 

 

That made me laugh, well done sir

[Withershadow]

Yes, poor Imperial navy.  My Lightning going up by 30 and Avenger going up 25 makes no sense.

 

My siege equipment really took a beating.

 

3x Cyclops Demo vehicles ... each up 20 points (50%)

3x Earthshaker carriages ... each up 30 points (35%)

3x Thudd guns ... each up 12 points (16%)

3x Rapiers ... each up 10 points (14%)

[CoffeeGrunt]

This is why I just use Battlescribe and just have the book to hand to quickly check rules in case of a dispute. I'm lucky in that I play with trustworthy people I know, so we know each other knows their army rules pretty reliably. Any mistakes are typically just honest errors, and we're only human so those happen.

 

However a lot of these changes are simply confusing. They don't correlate with anything actually being powerful enough to warrant them. I'm half expecting to see the Vanquisher get a points increase simply to signal that whoever did this doesn't really have a clue.

 

The sky hasn't fallen, but it's still a weird showing from GW.

[Vel'Cona]

I guess it's a shame for those that invested heavily in resin, though I feel that if your entire battleplan hinged around units that were questionably priced in the first place, you may have been gaming on borrowed time, as it were.  It's not anecdotal to say that the FW Indexes have been widely reviled for having unbalanced rules/incongruous point values, and GW seems to be taking note of this accordingly.

 

FWIW the increase to Manticores/Wyverns has affected my list as well, though as with any change I'll simply be tuning a few things here or there.  I suggest addressing the points changes constructively instead of lamenting them.  As an example, I plan to drop the Wyverns entirely (given they've been flagging a bit against all the MEQ locally) and sub in the Hellhounds that have been gathering dust, since the cost is now roughly equal.

[Thoridon]

I was disappointed with the Astropath increase at first as it seemed a lot but to be honest they were undercosted. I know their Smite is unlikely to work and they have no useful combat stats but they can deny a 100+ pt psyker just as effectively as anything else can deny and they are still a cheaper source of support 'spells'.

 

I think I'll still run a couple for non-Smite casting and extra denies, allowing my Primaris Psyker(s) to focus on Smite.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Having a reputation for something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Also the majority of FW Guard stuff is a bit woeful.

[Chris521]

My lists were only affected a little bit (Wyverns and manticores).  Ignoring the mess with forge world, the thing I hate the most is the sheer randomness of the changes.  There were a handful that were reasonable (primaris and Manticore), but a bunch that needed no change and several things that did need a change, but were ignored. 

 

This was GW's big chance to show everyone that they can balance the game.  While they may have succeeded in some parts ( I hear the admech is happy, but I don't really know the details), many people even outside of the guard were left scratching their heads.

 

Funny little thing to add,  I'm not saying that it needed a change, but I can't believe the punisher Vulture went through this mess unscathed.  When the FW index came out, people were going nuts over it.

[Withershadow]

AdMech is sort of happy.  Pretty much tons of stuff got discounts, but a few stinker unit options were ignored entirely, and an extra 100-150 points in a pure AdMech list does not compensate for their other issues.

[Tirak]

I'm more than willing to agree that the Batteries got a much needed nerf, but the gun carriages are not better to their chimera mounted brethren and Guard Flyers weren't over priced given the boots on the ground rules, and the Hellstrike change is not logically consistant with the pricing of other better options.

 

To put this into perspective, a Thunderbolt with Hellstrikes now costs more than the Lord of War only Marauder Destroyer and Marauder Bomber. Given the Eldar Flyer options this is baffling.

[micahwc]

I'm not a huge fan of some of the changes but I don't see a lot of change to my list. My scions will still rock plasma at the increased cost because it's still better than everything else on them. I don't generally bring Vets.

 

My Russ tanks are mostly unchanged so far.

 

My infantry squads are unchanged. My HQ choices are unchanged. I won't be bringing my earthshaker proxies anymore, if I want earthshakers I'll bring actual basilisks. I can see the hate for this update and understand it completely. I think there needs to be a huge negative reaction to this, otherwise GW will think it's fine.

[TheShredder]

I was disappointed with the Astropath increase at first as it seemed a lot but to be honest they were undercosted. I know their Smite is unlikely to work and they have no useful combat stats but they can deny a 100+ pt psyker just as effectively as anything else can deny and they are still a cheaper source of support 'spells'.

 

I agree that 15pts was a little too cheap, but I don't think they needed to literally double in price.

 

20-25pts would have been a lot more reasonable.

[Withershadow]

The hellstrike and meltagun changes must have been triggered by people whining about their opponents rolling 6s for damage due to the extra die rule.  Someone's Mortarion got pasted with a series of meltagun 6s, and they bitched and moaned about it to one of those overseers GW has been sending to conventions.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Somehow I doubt it though. At least, I don't they'd put that much stock in single complaints.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Honestly, despite the fact that I haven't run conscripts since the codex dropped, I'm mostly salty about those. Not because a single list I have was affected, but just because taking a unit that it took some serious creativity to make good already and then lighting it on fire and leaving it to die is just petty. 

[NatBrannigan]

Did the Taurox get reduced in points for the codex and then increased in this? What on earth is going on?

 

Also, are conscripts really now the same points as Regular Guard? That's got to be a typo yes? Because that's utterly nonsensical... I get that maybe a Games Workshop play tester (like unicorns, but much rarer) had a bad experience one game with a Wyvern that kept rolling 6's, hence the points increase, but I honestly don't understand how you can look at the profile of a Conscript, then the profile of a Guardsman, and make them the same points?

 

And now my Vets, that I keep running because I like my models for them, are even harder to play with!? AAAAAH! It was all going so well with a lovely codex, what the hell were they thinking with this book!?

 

I'm just using power levels now, they've beaten me down... I don't know if that's what GW want? they clearly do in Age of Sigmar where points were grudgingly given after release so maybe they'll just keep making using points so painful that when they get rid of them, no-one will complain?

 

Can't be bothered to buy this book, just something else to lug about. Give the points changes to people for free, on a PDF that we can print out and put into the back of the codex. Make the damn codex a ring binder or something...

[Feral_80]

Well as for the Conscript thing, if that's the case, I have an excellent theory that explains their points increase: next round they will 'fix' that by bringing infantry squads to 5ppm 

 

Just wait and see.

[Mitchverr]

Well as for the Conscript thing, if that's the case, I have an excellent theory that explains their points increase: next round they will 'fix' that by bringing infantry squads to 5ppm 

 

Just wait and see.

 

Given that the death korps and elysians are 5 base and though mentioned didnt get a points reduction, I would not be suprised to see this.

[Chris521]

I really hate how plasma and melta are divided between bs3+ and bs 4+.  It would have made more sense to divide it between guard and Tempestus, given how how scions were the strong ones and are still good even with the more expensive plasma.  Even then, I don't think the higher melta cost would have bee warranted for them.

[NatBrannigan]

It does seem like a poor solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place...

 

Never really thought about splitting weapon costs between Tempestus and Guard, that's a very elegant solution. Why didn't GW think of that!

 

At least we didn't get a Leman Russ points increase... What a stupid book to bring out when you've just released half the codices... I wonder if Blood Angels have any points changes for their soon to be released codex...

[Ishagu]

Gw have said that digital books are getting updated.

[Galron]

OK, I cant access any of the leaks from where I am, did any of this FW stuff change:

Valdor?

Colossus?

Medusa?

macharius chassis and turrets(I have all but the basic one)

Malcadors improved any?

 

Any Elysian changes worth noting aside from the meltagun thing and the like week ago change to command squads?

[micahwc]

With the increased costs of everything what do we think about special weapon squads? I think they may be a good source for cheap plasma spam. 45 points for 3 plasma guns doesn't seem horrible.