Who is my chapters progenitor?

[crimsondave]

Chapter 36 is a chapter of psychopaths mostly used to put down insurrections.  Not like Space Shark or Minotaurs psycho, more like Marines Malevolent psycho.  They enjoy committing atrocities and pillaging.  They recruit the worst of the worst from the prisons of their homeworld.  They are currently a group of Inquisitors personal SM chapter in order to keep from being declared renegade.  I'm not going to go into a bunch of further background (don't have much anyway.)  I would just like some help determining who would fit best as their progenitor.  I was thinking Dark Angels, but I'm not sure.  I'm open to anything that makes sense.  I don't want to go unknown or some lame super secret traitor chapter successor.

 

TIA

[Brother Lunkhead]

I'm sorry, but sound like their gene seed is a splice between Konrad Curze and Angron.  I don't mean to be flippant, but that doesn't even look like Russ on a bad hair day with a hangover. The only Inquisitors who would use SMs like that would be heretics and those about to be declared as such. Sounds like too close to chaos for even the most radical Inquisitior to tolerate.

 

Space Marine chapters put down insurrections all the time without being psychopathic, rampaging, killers (although they may look like that from the outside sometimes). Sorry brother, but that's how I see it.

[SpecialIssue]

Really, I envision these guys could be any of the Raven Guard, Imperial Fists or Ultramarines. In reality a lot of a chapter's temperament will be dictated by their home culture and environs - with the UMs as the ultimate blank slate, with successors like the Mortifactors confirmed as coming from their lineage. Likewise the Imperial Fists, but their successors are going to lean a bit more dour and hard-nosed (Executioners).

 

Raven Guard have a potential darkness, a hidden savage reaver quality within them, that could overwhelm their taciturn side if allowed.

 

You mentioned Dark Angels, but I get the feeling that their Inner Circle keep a too close eye on their successors to allow their relatives to run wild. Then again, its just a feeling, and you could come up with plenty of reasons and circumstances why this might be different for this case.

[crimsondave]

Marines Malevolent and Minotaurs are loyalist chapters.  Marines Malevolent is the flavor I'm looking for it just doesn't make sense for them to be the progenitors with their history.

[crimsondave]

Really, I envision these guys could be any of the Raven Guard, Imperial Fists or Ultramarines. In reality a lot of a chapter's temperament will be dictated by their home culture and environs - with the UMs as the ultimate blank slate, with successors like the Mortifactors confirmed as coming from their lineage. Likewise the Imperial Fists, but their successors are going to lean a bit more dour and hard-nosed (Executioners).

 

Raven Guard have a potential darkness, a hidden savage reaver quality within them, that could overwhelm their taciturn side if allowed.

 

You mentioned Dark Angels, but I get the feeling that their Inner Circle keep a too close eye on their successors to allow their relatives to run wild. Then again, its just a feeling, and you could come up with plenty of reasons and circumstances why this might be different for this case.

That was my exact issue with using the Dark Angles.  Honestly, I thought Raven Guard made the most sense from the start.  For some reason I'm just not feeling it.

[Brother Ramael]

Uhm, either you pull a Blood Raven ( pick the Dark Founding- the 13th- or the Cursed one -21- and say they used traitor geneseed) or maybe pick the Blood Angels as the original genessed and do a "Flesh Tearers" gone bad imho.

I agree with the others though that such a chapter would have short life in the Imperium, the Malefactors are an exception.

I would exclude defilintely the DA, if a successor was under the menace of becoming too intimate to the inquisition, if you saty in character ( so to say) either you would have a long string of "accidents" happening to the inquisitors or their ancestors would organize their demise somewhow.

[Lysimachus]

I think it's worth mentioning that even 'nice' Chapters are made up of psycho-conditioned, engineered killing machines, so I don't see any issue with your guys, especially if they are protected by a powerful group within the Inquisition.

 

On gene line, I'd consider UM as a blank slate. You could also go Iron Hands, as I could see their first Chapter Master looking at a Penal World logically rather than emotionally and thinking it'd be a great recruiting ground.

 

Alternatively, it could be interesting to use the most humanitarian Chapter, the Salamanders (remember, you don't have to give them the red eyes/ black skin). Perhaps they choose the Penal World in an attempt to save/redeem/bring honour to the people... but over the millenia the influence of the criminals/killers has been too strong, changing the nature of the Chapter. Now their progenitors are horrified by their genesons.

[DaBoiKyknos]

Chapter 36 is a chapter of psychopaths mostly used to put down insurrections.  Not like Space Shark or Minotaurs psycho, more like Marines Malevolent psycho.  They enjoy committing atrocities and pillaging.  They recruit the worst of the worst from the prisons of their homeworld.  They are currently a group of Inquisitors personal SM chapter in order to keep from being declared renegade.  I'm not going to go into a bunch of further background (don't have much anyway.)  I would just like some help determining who would fit best as their progenitor.  I was thinking Dark Angels, but I'm not sure.  I'm open to anything that makes sense.  I don't want to go unknown or some lame super secret traitor chapter successor.

 

TIA

 

I thought first Minotaurs as progenitor. But as you maybe don´t want to use them for it, maybe Iron Hands? They have pretty relentless tendencies to them, too. 

[Phoebus]

Consider this: no Chapter becomes [insert trait here] in a vacuum. At the risk of sounding obvious, your Chapter was, at some point, created from the gene-seed of another Chapter, who most likely provided the Veterans who in turn led these newly-minted Space Marines.

 

So, who is likely to become a Chapter not too dissimilar to the Marines Malevolent (since their own progenitor is not known to us)?

 

1. The Dark Angels are actually a rather poor candidate. The Unforgiven have gained notoriety because of actions they've taken at the command of the Inner Circle, but they don't commit atrocities for the sake of it, or as part of their strategy.

 

5. At the risk of generalizing, the White Scars do draw from a "Mongols in Space" theme, and their historical counterparts were rather ruthless conquerors. Ethnic cleansing, mass revenge killings, terror tactics, and other awful practices were carried out by Temujin. The White Scars enjoy a focus on their more positive aspect, but it's worth noting that they have Successors with names like the Destroyers, Marauders, or Rampagers. Not much is known about these Chapters, but words mean things and it's not a stretch to assume they may conduct themselves in a manner befitting their name.

 

6. Space Wolves don't have any Successors at this point, so they're out.

 

7. The Imperial Fists are certainly a possibility. They, too, get a lot of focus on their preferred mode of warfare, but consider some of their Successors. The Executioners are supposedly considered to be ill-disciplined primitives and head-hunters, little better than renegades, by several other Chapters. The Venom Thorns actually went Renegade. This just goes to show that the apple can fall far from the tree (if only on occasion).

 

9. The Red Thirst and Black Rage of the Blood Angels leaves many doors open for a Chapter capable of atrocity.

 

10. The Iron Hands are certainly ruthless... but this is in the sense that they don't care about human life to begin with. They're not cleansing populations or what have you for pleasure. That having been said, there is certainly something to be said about machine-driven psychosis that take the "The Flesh is Weak!" philosophy to horrible extremes.

 

13. The Ultramarines have produced Successors as lauded as themselves and as morbidly opposite as the Mortifactors.

 

18. I tend to think that the Salamanders are not the best choice because they aren't even confirmed to have Successors (although they're heavily hinted to) and because of their overall culture.

 

19. The Raven Guard are actually not a bad choice. Their background involves prisons, their Legion predecessors were ruthless and savage, and it's implied that these Space Marines, who were eventually exiled, have some part to play in the origins of the Carcharodons Astra.

 

Based on all that... if you ask me, I'd make your Chapter descended from White Scar or Raven Guard gene-seed.

 

Finally, do remember this. While Space Marines are ruthless warriors whose thoughts on life and death are generally considered inhuman, the Marines Malevolent don't just get away with what they do. Other Space Marine Chapters (not just the Salamanders) have submitted complaints for their excessive use of force against civilians, and there have even been calls for Inquisitorial censure levelled against them.

[crimsondave]

Consider this: no Chapter becomes [insert trait here] in a vacuum. At the risk of sounding obvious, your Chapter was, at some point, created from the gene-seed of another Chapter, who most likely provided the Veterans who in turn led these newly-minted Space Marines.

 

So, who is likely to become a Chapter not too dissimilar to the Marines Malevolent (since their own progenitor is not known to us)?

 

1. The Dark Angels are actually a rather poor candidate. The Unforgiven have gained notoriety because of actions they've taken at the command of the Inner Circle, but they don't commit atrocities for the sake of it, or as part of their strategy.

 

5. At the risk of generalizing, the White Scars do draw from a "Mongols in Space" theme, and their historical counterparts were rather ruthless conquerors. Ethnic cleansing, mass revenge killings, terror tactics, and other awful practices were carried out by Temujin. The White Scars enjoy a focus on their more positive aspect, but it's worth noting that they have Successors with names like the Destroyers, Marauders, or Rampagers. Not much is known about these Chapters, but words mean things and it's not a stretch to assume they may conduct themselves in a manner befitting their name.

 

6. Space Wolves don't have any Successors at this point, so they're out.

 

7. The Imperial Fists are certainly a possibility. They, too, get a lot of focus on their preferred mode of warfare, but consider some of their Successors. The Executioners are supposedly considered to be ill-disciplined primitives and head-hunters, little better than renegades, by several other Chapters. The Venom Thorns actually went Renegade. This just goes to show that the apple can fall far from the tree (if only on occasion).

 

9. The Red Thirst and Black Rage of the Blood Angels leaves many doors open for a Chapter capable of atrocity.

 

10. The Iron Hands are certainly ruthless... but this is in the sense that they don't care about human life to begin with. They're not cleansing populations or what have you for pleasure. That having been said, there is certainly something to be said about machine-driven psychosis that take the "The Flesh is Weak!" philosophy to horrible extremes.

 

13. The Ultramarines have produced Successors as lauded as themselves and as morbidly opposite as the Mortifactors.

 

18. I tend to think that the Salamanders are not the best choice because they aren't even confirmed to have Successors (although they're heavily hinted to) and because of their overall culture.

 

19. The Raven Guard are actually not a bad choice. Their background involves prisons, their Legion predecessors were ruthless and savage, and it's implied that these Space Marines, who were eventually exiled, have some part to play in the origins of the Carcharodons Astra.

 

Based on all that... if you ask me, I'd make your Chapter descended from White Scar or Raven Guard gene-seed.

 

Finally, do remember this. While Space Marines are ruthless warriors whose thoughts on life and death are generally considered inhuman, the Marines Malevolent don't just get away with what they do. Other Space Marine Chapters (not just the Salamanders) have submitted complaints for their excessive use of force against civilians, and there have even been calls for Inquisitorial censure levelled against them.

I probably should have put more background to this, but I was trying to be short.  Sorry.

 

They haven't gotten away with their deeds and the Inquisition doesn't protect them.  They've been "relocated" to a prison world where they stay until they are called for.  They are basically under house arrest by a group of Inquisitors.  Any further misdeeds, even leaving their home world without permission, would result in being declared renegade.

 

Thanks for the input.  Now I'm leaning more to Raven Guard.

Edited December 1, 2017 by crimsondave

[Brother Lunkhead]

    
       

 

 

Consider this: no Chapter becomes [insert trait here] in a vacuum. At the risk of sounding obvious, your Chapter was, at some point, created from the gene-seed of another Chapter, who most likely provided the Veterans who in turn led these newly-minted Space Marines.

 

So, who is likely to become a Chapter not too dissimilar to the Marines Malevolent (since their own progenitor is not known to us)?

 

1. The Dark Angels are actually a rather poor candidate. The Unforgiven have gained notoriety because of actions they've taken at the command of the Inner Circle, but they don't commit atrocities for the sake of it, or as part of their strategy.

 

5. At the risk of generalizing, the White Scars do draw from a "Mongols in Space" theme, and their historical counterparts were rather ruthless conquerors. Ethnic cleansing, mass revenge killings, terror tactics, and other awful practices were carried out by Temujin. The White Scars enjoy a focus on their more positive aspect, but it's worth noting that they have Successors with names like the Destroyers, Marauders, or Rampagers. Not much is known about these Chapters, but words mean things and it's not a stretch to assume they may conduct themselves in a manner befitting their name.

 

6. Space Wolves don't have any Successors at this point, so they're out.

 

7. The Imperial Fists are certainly a possibility. They, too, get a lot of focus on their preferred mode of warfare, but consider some of their Successors. The Executioners are supposedly considered to be ill-disciplined primitives and head-hunters, little better than renegades, by several other Chapters. The Venom Thorns actually went Renegade. This just goes to show that the apple can fall far from the tree (if only on occasion).

 

9. The Red Thirst and Black Rage of the Blood Angels leaves many doors open for a Chapter capable of atrocity.

 

10. The Iron Hands are certainly ruthless... but this is in the sense that they don't care about human life to begin with. They're not cleansing populations or what have you for pleasure. That having been said, there is certainly something to be said about machine-driven psychosis that take the "The Flesh is Weak!" philosophy to horrible extremes.

 

13. The Ultramarines have produced Successors as lauded as themselves and as morbidly opposite as the Mortifactors.

 

18. I tend to think that the Salamanders are not the best choice because they aren't even confirmed to have Successors (although they're heavily hinted to) and because of their overall culture.

 

19. The Raven Guard are actually not a bad choice. Their background involves prisons, their Legion predecessors were ruthless and savage, and it's implied that these Space Marines, who were eventually exiled, have some part to play in the origins of the Carcharodons Astra.

 

Based on all that... if you ask me, I'd make your Chapter descended from White Scar or Raven Guard gene-seed.

 

Finally, do remember this. While Space Marines are ruthless warriors whose thoughts on life and death are generally considered inhuman, the Marines Malevolent don't just get away with what they do. Other Space Marine Chapters (not just the Salamanders) have submitted complaints for their excessive use of force against civilians, and there have even been calls for Inquisitorial censure levelled against them.

I probably should have put more background to this, but I was trying to be short.  Sorry.

 

They haven't gotten away with their deeds and the Inquisition doesn't protect them.  They've been "relocated" to a prison world where they stay until they are called for.  They are basically under house arrest by a group of Inquisitors.  Any further misdeeds, even leaving their home world without permission, would result in being declared renegade.

 

Thanks for the input.  Now I'm leaning more to Raven Guard.

 

 

This makes some sense to me. Sorry brother if I sounded dismissive in my first post to you. Sounded too much like CSMs for this old straight up and down war dog (must be the Ultramarine in me). I could envision some more radical Inquisitors keeping these guys on a leash.

 

Brother Phoebus makes some excellent points about the Raven Guard and White Scars. Sounds like either one would work.     

[Olis]

In my opinion, it could literally be any first founding progenitor or their scions. Literally anyone, depending on how long this DIY Chapter has had time to develop on their own. That being said it does seem you are leaning towards helping their brutal culture/mind set with giving them a suitable candidate in regards to 'psychopathic' behaviour (ignoring the fact that, technically, space marines are all psychopaths anyway).

 

So, your Chapter appears to be somewhat penitent - or obedient - to submit wholly to a cabal of Inquisitors. Said Inquisitors likely have some serious clout/backup... but that's another story for another time in all likelihood. Ahem. They're penitent and yet they'll gleefully burn/destroy/kill for the hell of it. "Some men like to watch the world burn" and all that. To me this would seem to require a certain mindset, perhaps one where they would believe that they, no matter what they do, are ultimately delivered from evil. Which in turn would, in my mind, suggest that they may be quite a pious lot. We can rule out the Fire Angels, though they themselves believe the Imperial Creed, as they are too young (25th Founding). Perhaps the Fire Hawks, a Chapter of similar temperament could be a good source? They have a several thousand year history and could easily have been rewarded in that time with an antecedent.

 

Alternatively, it could be interesting to use the most humanitarian Chapter, the Salamanders (remember, you don't have to give them the red eyes/ black skin). Perhaps they choose the Penal World in an attempt to save/redeem/bring honour to the people... but over the millenia the influence of the criminals/killers has been too strong, changing the nature of the Chapter. Now their progenitors are horrified by their genesons.

 

The Conflagrators say hi. :P