Guard in the evolving meta

[depthcharge12]

Guard suffer from capturing objectives as they don’t have quite as mobile troops as other armies, which is a good spot for an opponent to take advantage and win. My BA buddy almost got a major victory over me during a relic mission as I couldn’t move fast enough with tough units to grab it. He picked it up and was able to jump it too far from my gunlines and used a character so I couldn’t immediately shoot at him either.

 

That was some damn smart moves on his part.

 

The only reason I beat him was a roll off to go another turn - if we didn’t go he would have won a major victory with 1 model, however, I rolled another turn up and was able to table him turn 6. You never see that level of intelligence in the after tournie reports because all anyone cares about is W/L. Sometimes it comes down to just a roll, and I’ll be the first to admit that he should’ve won for being an all around better player than myself.

[FallenSoldiers]

Guard suffer from capturing objectives as they don’t have quite as mobile troops as other armies, which is a good spot for an opponent to take advantage and win. My BA buddy almost got a major victory over me during a relic mission as I couldn’t move fast enough with tough units to grab it. He picked it up and was able to jump it too far from my gunlines and used a character so I couldn’t immediately shoot at him either.

 

That was some damn smart moves on his part.

 

The only reason I beat him was a roll off to go another turn - if we didn’t go he would have won a major victory with 1 model, however, I rolled another turn up and was able to table him turn 6. You never see that level of intelligence in the after tournie reports because all anyone cares about is W/L. Sometimes it comes down to just a roll, and I’ll be the first to admit that he should’ve won for being an all around better player than myself.

See, I feel as if our infantry as extremely mobile with Orders. Move + advance and then be able to shoot or move and advance again? With a few lucky rolls you could move an infantry squad 24” in a turn.

 

Now granted they’ll become a giant target that will most likely crumble if the enemy focuses on them, but in maelstrom style missions they’re great objective cappers! They’re also a deceptive way to take an objective from an enemy who doesn’t have troops planted on it.

[Zuri Prime]

Marines in cover give FRFSRF the finger. Best way to counter infantry squad spam is with Primaris in cover. Tac Marines? Backline support.

[Schlitzaf]

Now Marines are jealous of My Crusader Squad great

[depthcharge12]

 

Guard suffer from capturing objectives as they don’t have quite as mobile troops as other armies, which is a good spot for an opponent to take advantage and win. My BA buddy almost got a major victory over me during a relic mission as I couldn’t move fast enough with tough units to grab it. He picked it up and was able to jump it too far from my gunlines and used a character so I couldn’t immediately shoot at him either.

 

That was some damn smart moves on his part.

 

The only reason I beat him was a roll off to go another turn - if we didn’t go he would have won a major victory with 1 model, however, I rolled another turn up and was able to table him turn 6. You never see that level of intelligence in the after tournie reports because all anyone cares about is W/L. Sometimes it comes down to just a roll, and I’ll be the first to admit that he should’ve won for being an all around better player than myself.

See, I feel as if our infantry as extremely mobile with Orders. Move + advance and then be able to shoot or move and advance again? With a few lucky rolls you could move an infantry squad 24” in a turn.

 

Now granted they’ll become a giant target that will most likely crumble if the enemy focuses on them, but in maelstrom style missions they’re great objective cappers! They’re also a deceptive way to take an objective from an enemy who doesn’t have troops planted on it.

Yeah that’s what I tried but his tricksy hobbitses jump packs moved it too far. Also our fancy 5+ saves didn’t help me survive bolter fire despite popular opinion :P

[librisrouge]

Now Marines are jealous of My Crusader Squad great

Don't even get me started on how much I don't want to see Black Templar assault squads across the table (or worse, in deep strike.)

[Colonel Cross]

 

 

Guard suffer from capturing objectives as they don’t have quite as mobile troops as other armies, which is a good spot for an opponent to take advantage and win. My BA buddy almost got a major victory over me during a relic mission as I couldn’t move fast enough with tough units to grab it. He picked it up and was able to jump it too far from my gunlines and used a character so I couldn’t immediately shoot at him either.

 

That was some damn smart moves on his part.

 

The only reason I beat him was a roll off to go another turn - if we didn’t go he would have won a major victory with 1 model, however, I rolled another turn up and was able to table him turn 6. You never see that level of intelligence in the after tournie reports because all anyone cares about is W/L. Sometimes it comes down to just a roll, and I’ll be the first to admit that he should’ve won for being an all around better player than myself.

See, I feel as if our infantry as extremely mobile with Orders. Move + advance and then be able to shoot or move and advance again? With a few lucky rolls you could move an infantry squad 24” in a turn.

 

Now granted they’ll become a giant target that will most likely crumble if the enemy focuses on them, but in maelstrom style missions they’re great objective cappers! They’re also a deceptive way to take an objective from an enemy who doesn’t have troops planted on it.

Yeah that’s what I tried but his tricksy hobbitses jump packs moved it too far. Also our fancy 5+ saves didn’t help me survive bolter fire despite popular opinion

 

 

Remember, the max move per turn with the Relic is 9" 

 

Although that is still pretty quick in comparison to a standard Guardsman who still has to fire/assault to make up the space.  

[our_baz]

Meanwhile over on Amicus.... Now they come for our artillery. The idea shower is that there needs to be a -1 to hit for indirect fire. Thoughts?

[Feral_80]

Opening that thread was like opening the warp. Every kind of insane, foul-mouthed creature seems to appear there.

 

I am pretty sure that anybody who makes such a proposal has never played a real game.

 

Or, well, he's just too stupid to understand basic notions of game balance.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Feral_80

[Colonel Cross]

But the problem is if we just roll over, we get another round of nerfs like CA which incorporated countless questionable points changes.  Did heavy mortars really need to be INCREASED? I already used them to tone down my lists but now it's just too much. lol.  The public outcry is clearly all GW looks at, and for whatever reason, the Marine players are focused on IG more than any other army.  If GW weren't so active in listening to whiners, I wouldn't even be concerned.  But at this point, we still have legitimate rules questions required to be FAQ'd and all we've gotten are dozens of point changes :/

[our_baz]

Thought exercise here to pull us away from that vortex of death over in Amicus, I for one hate playing against Marines (even though they are sub par apparently!) , I find them a tough nut to crack, my games against them are usually super close or I get mulched. How does everyone else feel? . Any other factions that you don't look forward to facing especially with new codex especially due.

[Feral_80]

Just anything with a -1 hit really, including my own AdMech

 

It just ruins the fun, unless you tailor your list specifically for that. In this case, it is playable but still frustrating because you look at your collection and realize that 70% of it is useless.

 

Among the -1 hit armies, I'd say Tyranids are very nasty. But I like to play them regardless. I'd say that the hate-crown goes to Eldar (surprise?), who can stack up to -3 or possibly -4, proving that somebody at GW is clearly bonkers. Death Guard is close second, being depressingly resilient also slows terribly down the game.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Feral_80

[our_baz]

The pointy ears don't bother me (yet!?), I actually look forward to facing them. The eldar meta at my gaming group is Ynnari or Ulthwé. Haven't encountered the -1 to hit stacking shenanigans.

[depthcharge12]

Meanwhile over on Amicus.... Now they come for our artillery. The idea shower is that there needs to be a -1 to hit for indirect fire. Thoughts?

It seems a logical idea (most of my arty can see stuff anyway) but doesn’t that mean we should also get rid of -1 to hit for special rules since blast weapons don’t care about smoke screens?

 

Also, I’m confused as to why flamer weapons by and large don’t ignore cover either.

Edited January 26, 2018 by depthcharge12

[Finkmilkana]

Also, I’m confused as to why flamer weapons by and large don’t ignore cover either.

Well, from a balance perspective I do not really think they need it, especially the big flamers it would make logical sense for, like hellhounds. And for smaller ones like hand flamers that cannot simply fill a whole building with promethium it makes sense that hiding behind a thin wall gives some protection. Actually more so than against bolters or lascannons which should just punch through that wall. Edited January 26, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[NatBrannigan]

I'm using Infantry squads wrong, I must be! Even when I joined two squads together (no casualties either), slapped FRFSRF on them, got them within 12" had them next to Yarrick AND used the Mordian volley fire Strategem (It took at least 5 minutes to get it sorted and I'm never ever doing it again...) I still only killed 8 Chaos Marines. Now I was very happy with that I must say but it's not crazy good is it? And I still can't believe I puled that off...

 

And yes, I now see Leman Russ tanks are Overpowered as are Artillery... Rough Riders next?

[Feral_80]

Well it seems the storm has suddently stopped over there 

 

They had no time to complain about Bullgryns, apparently.

 

Let us hope the gate is closed for now.

Edited January 27, 2018 by WarriorFish
Swear filter dodge replaced

[WarriorFish]

While I share the disappointment in some of the short sighted opinions (and the silly ones) in the Amicus topic I think this horse needs respectful burial here

 

For new cud to chew the imminent arrival of Custodes and soon the Thousand Sons. I don't think the Sons will be anything radically different for Guard to face but the Custodes are a different kettle of fish. Usually more elite armies are easier for Guard as they suffer diminishing returns against an army that can play attrition well I've seen some of their stats and rules and they seem quite potent.

 

Even a single Custode appears to be more than a match for almost any of our units, so focus fire to wipe them out seems prudent. Does anyone have some deeper analysis or ideas for countering them?

[Finkmilkana]

I think bulgryns should work alright, as should a few psykers. Maybe even a few crusaders for screening (as they generally have high ap multi wound meele and not that much high rate of fire shooting) and rough riders for counter charge. Though I generally like playing meele guard, so I’m biased towards using them.

Guard also has quite a bit -2 ap (which will probably be ideal to force their invuln save), so battlecannons and manticore should work fine if you can protect them. As long as they are not in cover, autocannons might also be useful for once, though I don’t think they are truly point efficient.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[ThatOneMarshal]

Finally found a meta at my college, though it’s incredibly small. My main opponent plays sisters, knights, an custodies. The custodies are going to be interesting to play against. My biggest fear currently is all of the little bubbles they have, particularly the -1 to hit modifier they have.

 

However they do provide us with a fearless banner so I might have to fight fire with fire :D!

[FallenSoldiers]

I am -trilled- at the prospect of facing Custodes! In a 2,000 pt game they’ll have what, 15-20 models? I’ll feed them squad after squad and rely on the back lines to pick them off. Basilisks and Manticores should do some solid work against them. It’s going to take a lot of proper positioning and movement, but I’m very excited to get some games in against them.

 

I also plan to collect a small force to add to my army. A nice elite core for some fun fluffy games.

[our_baz]

Custodes certainly would be an interesting prospect. T5 3W 2+ 5++, Bullgryns could put the hurt on in CC, I think drown them in saves and see if the rolls hold. Battle cannon , plasma (from inf and tank) and our lovely artillery.

[Feral_80]

I think Custodes will be a real pain in the ass. 

 

I might sound obsessive here, but again the big issue will be their standard that gives -1 hit, which will be carried by a guy so tough that no reasonable amount of our snipers will ever be able to bring down in time. Which means that most of our fire will hit Custodes on 5+ (plus, plasma will be quite suicidal). Incredibly good T and saves also means that a good number of hits will be discarded without inflicting damage. At 3w a piece minimum, even massed lasgun fire will just bounce off harmlessly. I doubt they really needed -1 hit on top of that to be competitive, but ah well.

 

I don't think Bullgryns will do any good, as at only AP -1 not many of their hits will go past a 3+ save. Even worse, 2 Bullgryn hits will be needed to kill a single Custodian, making them effectively double in durability compared to terminators. So CC is hardly an option for us either.

 

I'll wait to see the precise points costs, but as it stands this codex seems another heavy brick against the (now pure myth) of AM incredible array of choices and strengths.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Feral_80

[our_baz]

How bout bringing a few assassins? I know they are not everyone's cup of tea. But 2 vindi's working in collaboration with a callidus? Target that banner fella, he on 3, wound on 2, 5+ save. The callidus, can then pop up and shoot before CC. Thoughts?

[duz_]

Dont forget Custodes will be more like 3++/4++ with their detachment bonus!

 

They do bring back nice bonuses for Soup lists with their banners. :)

Hopefully that sees the commissar nerf reversed. :D /wishful thinking