Guard in the evolving meta

[Feral_80]

Eeef, assassins won't do any good.

 

And anyway, if a single model is leading you to consider fielding 3x others that normally you would never field (and that likely cost double his pts), that's already a clear sign that the model in question is very problematic.

[FallenSoldiers]

I’ll tske their -1 to hit because it’s a 12” bubble around a unit. Either they have to clump up or spam an expensive elite unit. Push 1 wound through and pop overlapping fields of fire to negate the -1 and they’ll go down. It’s way better than the entire army being -1 outside of 12” away.

[depthcharge12]

Heavy mortars, earthshaker cannons, and death riders are the Krieg way! I had to face a big buffed blob of sanguinary Guard, while they didn’t have a ++ they had FNP and a pretty equivalent number of 2+ save multi wound models.

 

Name of the game is focus firing. You won’t be able to kill all of the big baddies, but if you leave a unit with one model and move on to the next, you will be kicking yourself when that one dude solo’s half your battle line. Focus on the immediate units, take some bruises, then regroup and eliminate the others.

 

Honestly, I’ve started taking in my list and considering an officer with a blade of conquest to assault out of turn and blend some baddies. 3+ to hit in cc with Krieg is absolutely hilarious. I can imagine Armageddon and Catachan can pull off some similiar results.

[our_baz]

Eeef, assassins won't do any good.

 

And anyway, if a single model is leading you to consider fielding 3x others that normally you would never field (and that likely cost double his pts), that's already a clear sign that the model in question is very problematic.

I try an take 2-3 assassins regardless in my lists. Your right it's an outlay but you can inflict 3W in shooting when being conservative.

You say -1 to hit is bad for us, I agree. What's the best option then? Ignore it? What would you do out of interest?

[Feral_80]

No idea in fact. I'll wait to have a look at the Custodes codex.

But yes, since it will be an untargettable, super-tough model, ignoring it might just be the way, because to attempt to kill it would require to invest so many points that the the units he is buffing would not be dealt with properly. So it might be better to go the other way around, and just buy more bodies to slow down the punchy stuff.

[Mileposter]

This fear of the banner is largely ignoring the flow of battle. The easiest way to deal with a banner like that is to bait him into somewhere that he can't do the job properly.

 

Fake out an objective game.to get them to babysit a marker without contributing much. March your infantry up one column and your tanks up another, force them to choose the engagement. Bunker in a building with a few officers to make a juicy target then counter charge with the bullgryn 2+ wall.

 

"What unit do I use" isn't the only question a Guard player should be asking - because how you use that unit matters more!

[Feral_80]

Nice in theory, but then again I don't see why you assume that the one being baited is always the opponent and the one dominating the flow of the game is always you. 'Bait' a buffing character? Yeah, sure, good luck with that. You can theoryhammer all possible baiting scenarios in the world, but that won't change the objective fact that in a normal situation that model is a serious problem. We are all Napoleons (pre-Waterloo) when talking about our majestic tactical skills.

 

But I repeat it: let's see this codex first, everything here is just an impression at the moment. It has much more to do with problematic game mechanics than with the codex itself, at the moment.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Feral_80

[shandwen]

The banner requires the entire unit to be within 9" for it to work, so they will be super bunched up. Just drop a deathstrike with the stratigum. (If only it were that easy...)

[ThatOneMarshal]

In reality if it’s an objective game then they’ll have to split up if they want to actually grab objectives. From there just start pickin off you units. You can also try to get lucky with a preliminary barrage and sly marbos concealed explosives.

[iceman2160]

Bring a Shadowsword and nuke the .

[Feral_80]

Ah, Preliminary barrage, Marbo, and Shadowsword. And deathstrike (but the latter I'll take it as a joke). To kill a character. Ok.

 

Guys, come on. You have never actually played a real game in 8th ed, right?

[Halfpint100]

That -1 bubble can be negated by one thing and on thing only....

 

HELLHOUNDS! Burn them all! Considering 1 hellhound with heavy flamer is the same price as 2 custodes troops.......

 

Even if they blow up = mortal wounds, custodes shooting is lackluster and short ranges in the majority of units.

 

Then again, hellhounds are my answer to everything, maybe I have an obsession......

Edited January 28, 2018 by Halfpint100

[FallenSoldiers]

Again, I’ll reiterate, if you’re Cadian, once you push a wound onto the squad you can use OFoF to negate that -1. 40 shots with a punisher gives you decent odds to putting 1 wound on. Then the squad is back to normal ballistic still. Open up with artillery.

 

The major threat to that is if they have bikes to counter charge your punisher. Otherwise, at 24”, they’re not going to be flying up in your face.

[Mileposter]

Nice in theory, but then again I don't see why you assume that the one being baited is always the opponent and the one dominating the flow of the game is always you. [...] We are all Napoleons (pre-Waterloo) when talking about our majestic tactical skills.

I made no such assumption, don't be extreme. I suggested only that doomsaying is silly and this is another tool in our toolbox that has not been addressed by the fear of a model.

 

'Bait' a buffing character? Yeah, sure, good luck with that. You can theoryhammer all possible baiting scenarios in the world...

No theoryhammer. Works regularly on tournament players.

 

...but that won't change the objective fact that in a normal situation that model is a serious problem.

This is not an objective fact. This is an opinion. Others find this potential enemy no problem at all. It requires tactical adjustments, not panic.

 

But I repeat it: let's see this codex first, everything here is just an impression at the moment. It has much more to do with problematic game mechanics than with the codex itself, at the moment.

I agree with you entirely, here.

 

Guys, come on. You have never actually played a real game in 8th ed, right?

Your attitude is horrible, brother.

[Feral_80]

No panic, just a bit worried that this kind of mechanics are already cluttering the game. If you think about it, when it comes to playing a standard game the options are generally quite limited already. And that mostly depends on the fact that a few, poorly designed mechanics have a huge impact on list balances. Which is a pity really, limiting options is never a good thing.

 

And yes, my attitude generally is really poor  but I am less nasty than it may look, I just like a sarcastic candor.

[librisrouge]

That -1 bubble can be negated by one thing and on thing only....

 

HELLHOUNDS! Burn them all! Considering 1 hellhound with heavy flamer is the same price as 2 custodes troops.......

 

Even if they blow up = mortal wounds, custodes shooting is lackluster and short ranges in the majority of units.

 

Then again, hellhounds are my answer to everything, maybe I have an obsession......

An obsession with awesomeness!

 

Is anybody else kinda glad that IG is basically not in the top 8 at LVO? We’re only represented by 6 infantry squads so that the “Space Wolf” player doesn’t have to take his own troops. After having been told that I’m not allowed to complain about other armies because I play IG, it’ll be nice to get out of the limelight.

Edited January 28, 2018 by librisrouge

[Halfpint100]

After looking at the LVO lists, i am waiting for the nerf bat to hit eldar hard. Also i was right, no top 10 this LVO

[Spyboy]

Where are you seeing the top ten LVO lists?

[librisrouge]

A few websites have 1-2 and you can look them up in the Best Coast Pairings player app.

[Halfpint100]

Im using the best coast pairings app Edited January 28, 2018 by Halfpint100

[Colonel Cross]

I hope some of these mathammer jabronies will put in the effort to analyze the top 50 lists. With only a handful of points separating people from the top 8, it would seem to be beneficial as a larger sample size is considered far more accurate.

[duz_]

Blood of kittens really likes to keep track of winning lists and factions too and they're reporting LVO.

[Are Verlo]

Regarding custodes the krieg engineers are decent. They cost little, hit on 3+, since the range is 12” the engineers dont suffer -1 to hit. The shotguns wound on 2+ and each failed 2+ save results in 2 damage taken by the custodes.

[depthcharge12]

I hope some of these mathammer jabronies will put in the effort to analyze the top 50 lists. With only a handful of points separating people from the top 8, it would seem to be beneficial as a larger sample size is considered far more accurate.

160 guardsmen with 8 officers giving FRSRF can surround and obliterate 10 terminators with Belial dontcha know?

 

 

:P

 

I wake up every day just to listen to people be outrageous. It gives me a raison d’être.

[Halfpint100]

 

I hope some of these mathammer jabronies will put in the effort to analyze the top 50 lists. With only a handful of points separating people from the top 8, it would seem to be beneficial as a larger sample size is considered far more accurate.

160 guardsmen with 8 officers giving FRSRF can surround and obliterate 10 terminators with Belial dontcha know?

 

 

 

I wake up every day just to listen to people be outrageous. It gives me a raison d’être.

 

 

Even with maths and the assumption that they are all within 12" (somehow, the DA player messed up if this happens) you deal 16.4 wounds, so 8 dead termies