Marshal Rohr Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 The EC in Helsreach wasn't described besides just being really awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Pretty much, though I believe the fluff of the Emperor's vision existed even before Helsreach. At any rate, the one thing I actually like about our new fluff is how they expanded on and refined the Emperor's Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Pretty much, though I believe the fluff of the Emperor's vision existed even before Helsreach. At any rate, the one thing I actually like about our new fluff is how they expanded on and refined the Emperor's Champion. I haven't read anything since Eternal Crusader, and don't remember much of it. Where was the new EC fluff? I'd like to peruse that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I think you're there. The process is how the fluff states: prayer, visions, cool toys, war, death. What it is exactly that makes a marine into a champion is a mystery. Divine inspiration? Imperic possession? Who knows? What we do know is that they are instantly better than they were and far better than just having new armour and a Gucci sword would make them. They are blessed with visions, which lead them to their glory and their death. We also know that there can only be one in the chapter at any one time. (Not just the crusades) but each crusade carries kit for one just in case one arises in their crusade. The rising of a new champion tells all that the last one has died. That's how Helbrecht learnt of Bayard's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 In the "Lords of Mars" trilogy, there is some mention of the process. If I recall correctly, one of the brothers felt he should have been the EC because he's the better swordsman, but he didn't receive the vision. I was very happy with how McNeill treated us in his books. Well worth the read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 This thread made me curious about the Emperor's Champion fluff and it really hasnt changed at all since its first appearance in the 3rd edition codex in 1998. It basically says the Champion is chosen before battle and all battle brothers join in prayer until one of them receives a vision from the Emperor, then that guy is invested as Emperor's Champion and stays in communion with the Emperor hours before battle, basically meditating. Pretty much the same as it is now. Honda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) The most alteration across texts is in the number and nature of Black Swords (some weren't even swords, previously), the number of Champions, and now they're a bit more...glowy. But yeah, essentially they haven't changed in their basic nature or 'selection.' Edited December 25, 2017 by Firepower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 The most alteration across texts is in the number and nature of Black Swords (some weren't even swords, previously), the number of Champions, and now they're a bit more...glowy. But yeah, essentially they haven't changed in their basic nature or 'selection.' Wait so you're saying I can fulfill my dream of an EC with a huge axe and it's cannon? Templar Headsman, here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) In the old fluff, the Champion was outfitted with the best armour and weapon and that was it. The sword is the traditional weapon of the Templar but there's nothing to say an axe couldn't work. Edited December 25, 2017 by Ciler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 HERESY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Personally, I think the "magical superman" icon of the Emperor's Champion is perhaps... a disservice. Similarly, I like the idea that their faith is better as something a bit more intangible than merely "witnessing a clear, indisputable miracle". Everyone would believe, given that opportunity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Personally, I think the "magical superman" icon of the Emperor's Champion is perhaps... a disservice. Similarly, I like the idea that their faith is better as something a bit more intangible than merely "witnessing a clear, indisputable miracle". Everyone would believe, given that opportunity! Nothing Superman about an Astartes having a vision, then dying at the end of the book... all the time... I don't think there's an Emperor's Champion that has lived at least close to the length of the original EC... In the one time that we were given in insight to what an EC actually sees during his "visions" it's usually some form of precognition that tells them what's going to happen to them and how they are going to die... I think this is similar to what Sigismund saw during his meeting with Keeler during the HH, where he was shown 2 deaths that he can have depending on the choice he made... which is cool, because if that's the case, then that gets passed down as well as the Armor of Faith and the Black Sword... BitsHammer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Bayard actually lasts a relatively long while in Helsreach, whereas the various ECs in the Gathering storm series do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 When I was searching google about and looking about interaction BT with SoB i found old B&C topic: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274053-so-why-do-sisters-and-black-templars-hate-each-other/ It is worth read, because of some interesting points of view. Long story short, few people mentioned about, that BT don't treat Emperor as god. He is Emperor, Light of mankind, but we don't treat him as god. Second thought was about Imperum Truth. We, help Emperor implement it through Galaxy. So in fact we can't worship Empror as a god, because we know that he's will was to replenish any cult as "wide open door's for chaos", and he didn't want to be a subject of a cult. Very interesting point of view. And it is clear that we belive in Emperor but not as god but as Defender and leader of Mankind. What you guys think about that? Schlitzaf -> internal Powers could you say more what you have in mind, because I can't understand that. What Internal Powers means? Schlitzaf -> same with this : with pyshic Abilities manifest as a traditional styled mutation instead of external. What where you thinking of? Pardon slow response, Internal Powers stuff like Astropaths and Navigators whose powers essentially are rooted in communication and you don't seen any external effects of the powers (well Navigators have that third eye), or buff powers. Grey Knights primary powers are self-buffs. Display more a mutation, basically stuff like how Navigators abilities are extensions of 'mutations' vs unchanged human shooting laser beams with their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 OK, Now I get it. Thanks for response:) cheers:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) The biggest problem with the post ADB 'the Emperor is a God' fluff is I just can't believe Sigismund would have converted to the followings of the lectitio divinitatus. He was too devout a servant of what the Emperor actually wanted. I am deeply confused by this. Edited December 28, 2017 by A D-B Kastor Krieg 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 How so ADB? Also Bayard was an EC from a previous crusade, something that I liked about Helsreach and something I've always thought all a long. The newer fluff makes it out to be that the EC is very short lived but I believe that there is the possibility that they could live much longer than the "next battle" On topic, I don't care for the Templars believing that the Emperor is a god, ironic because I used to consider him a god myself. I'm now firmly in the camp that there are no gods at all in 40K. There are certainly beings of immense power, so great that mere mortals would consider them to be gods, but I don't think they should be considered gods. I believe the Emperor is one such being. Firepower and BitsHammer 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 *slowly reaches for chainsword* Kastor Krieg, Khornestar, Sete and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) How so ADB? EDIT: Oh, God. I get it now. Post-ADB fluff. Jesus Christ, I'm so dumb. And yes, I completely agree with that take on Sigismund. Edited December 28, 2017 by A D-B Firepower, Ebon Hand, Marshal_Roujakis and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 *puts Crozius back down and thumbs it off*Yes, indeed. Ebon Hand and Honda 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) On topic, I don't care for the Templars believing that the Emperor is a god, ironic because I used to consider him a god myself. I'm now firmly in the camp that there are no gods at all in 40K. There are certainly beings of immense power, so great that mere mortals would consider them to be gods, but I don't think they should be considered gods. I believe the Emperor is one such being.Interestingly, I think might be the opposite of you. In the past I've always hated the cult of the emperor and liked the imperial truth. But then I got into black Templars late in the game, so to me they've always been religious fanatics. To me it's a fun escapist roleplaying thing to have an army that takes a philosophical stance 100% the opposite of what I would in that universe. Now that I know they used to be imperial truth crusaders, I'm torn, because I love that idea as well. Side note, my second army is Word Bearers because I really like the drama of two zealots clashing. Edited December 28, 2017 by +Chaplain Matthias+ Honda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 How so ADB? EDIT: Oh, God. I get it now. Post-ADB fluff. Jesus Christ, I'm so dumb. And yes, I completely agree with that take on Sigismund. Phew! I was worried for a second there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Bayard was an EC from a previous crusade, something that I liked about Helsreach and something I've always thought all a long. The newer fluff makes it out to be that the EC is very short lived but I believe that there is the possibility that they could live much longer than the "next battle"Well, I don't think it says anywhere that they are short-lived, it's just that as they are tasked with defeating the strongest foes, their job is significantly more challenging than that of the average Space Marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) The Eternal Crusader by Haley shows a neophyte that receives the visions and becomes a Champion. During the boarding of a space Hulk he leads the way (he knows the way) and fights like he has centuries of experience. It is displayed as a trance state. We need to know more about Sigismund, his dealings with Kepler? Kessler? And his anointment as Emperor's Champion and his first years as High Marshall. What annoys me is that we know his beginnings and his end. We need to know his achievements in the siege. How his legend is made there. Edited December 28, 2017 by Sete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Bayard was an EC from a previous crusade, something that I liked about Helsreach and something I've always thought all a long. The newer fluff makes it out to be that the EC is very short lived but I believe that there is the possibility that they could live much longer than the "next battle"Well, I don't think it says anywhere that they are short-lived, it's just that as they are tasked with defeating the strongest foes, their job is significantly more challenging than that of the average Space Marine. Surely, the longevity of a Champion is determined by the classic combination of skill, a bit of fate and a large dose of luck. Something my own Champion has displayed very little of so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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