Starting Deathwatch - Unit/Loadout Help Required

[Major_Gilbear]

As per the thread title, I am starting a modest Deathwatch force, and I could use some general advice on configuring my models please.

 

Firstly, I want to emphasise that this force is not intended to be super-optimised. I will be playing with a good friend of mine, and I expect that we will be mostly using Power Levels. That said, we may use points if PL don't provide us with the balance we desire, or at least use points to find out what the PL discrepancy might actually be.

 

Secondly, I am mindful that I don't want to end up with any squads or units that have very specific equipment that's likely to change or be invalidated - whilst nobody can guarantee this, and having a couple of "illegal" models isn't a huge deal to me, I'd prefer to avoid anything really corner-case.

 

Thirdly, I have some models already. These are:

 

4nr Deathwatch Veteran kits

2nr Tactical Terminators kits

1nr Assault Squad

1nr Venerable Dread

2nr Razorbacks

2nr Artemis

1nr Watch Master

1nr Watch Captain in TDA

1nr DW Librarian in TDA with Force Staff

A variety of other Space Marine left-overs, including enough to make another 5-10 DW Vets, 3 more Terminators, and 5 or so DW Vanguard Vets.

 

Right, onto some of the areas I could use advice on please:

 

- Are CML worth it on Terminators? They seem to be very expensive ML, with a very mediocre-looking Frag profile.

 

- I'm thinking HF on Terminators are probably not super-useful either?

 

- I'm considering one Terminator unit with 2 AC, 3 SB, 1-2 powerfists, a chainfist, and 2-3 power swords. A second Terminator unit would have 2 SS&TH, 3 SB, 1 PF with meltagun, and 2 power swords. Am I better focussing squads like this, or mixing them up to make to similar squads? I could do a 10-man unit instead, but that seems like a very all-or-nothing unit then.

 

- I have a few other Terminator models besides the squads above. I guess that either SS&TH or SB& PS are the best choices for these to add as single models to Veteran units?

 

- Deathwatch Veterans look pricey, so I'm thinking that being role-focussed and having modest squad upgrades are probably best to keep points down. As I have 4 Frag Cannons, I doubt I'd bother with the Infernus Bolter, and whilst a Heavy TH looks cool I doubt I'd want more than one in the army. I'm thinking two FC/Bolter/Chainsword squads with a power weapon, a Stalker squad, and a combi-weapon/bolter squad. I'm open to suggestions though!

 

- Vanguard vets are also quite expensive and specialist, so I'm thinking that I'd want to keep bolt pistols on all to maximise SIA, then have 2-3 plasma pistols, a SS, and maybe a power weapon for the squad as upgrades. Are dual pistols worth the points? If so, is there much merit in dual Bolt pistols? I felt adding a SS to a model would (1) look cool, and (2) permit a little tanking to help keep them alive.

 

- Razorbacks. At least one twin AC would be my preferred choice (I've always loved them in every edition), but I'm reluctant to spend lots of money on bits. I'm therefore thinking that either one each BH/LC for flexibility, or both LC to provide some long range anti-tank firepower. However if cheaper is better, I could be talked into both being HB.

 

- I was thinking of converting the second copy of Artemis into a jump-pack Watch Captain with a combi-melta and a Xenoblade. Looks cool, feels like it could be quite flexible too. However, should I swap the Xenoblade for something with more damage?

 

- The Ven Dread would have a magnetised right/gun arm, although I'd like to have a fixed loadout for the other arm. The SB looks like it'd get more use to me due to range, but the auto-hitting HF has it's own appeal too. Is there any compelling argument to choose one over the other?

 

- Finally, I haven't mentioned Blackshields or mixed Veteran squads much. Nor have I really mentioned squad sizes particularly. I guess that I'd be going for 5-man squads for the most part, but I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts on this. The whole mixed squads thing looks (1) fiddly to play, and (2) like the points costs may outweigh any game-benefits on the whole. Again, thoughts and/or corrections are welcome!

 

I've already had a browse through the first few pages of threads here, but many of these seem to have been started some time back and so I don't really know how current/valid the suggestions in them still are. I also fully appreciate that the DW don't have a Codex yet, and that currently they are a long way from being a competitive army - that's partly why I don't really want to post a rate-my-list thread, and I also don't think that's particularly relevant right now anyway. Instead, some discussion of sensible options would be more useful I feel, as I can then use those to guide me.

 

Quite a lot to ask really, I know, so any help would be gratefully received. I also hope the thread will help others like me who are starting out, and who may have one or two Start Collecting boxes as a base for their collection. 

[Vel'Cona]

Welcome to the long watch, brother!  I'll take a stab at some of these questions:

 

- CML are pricey but they give the Termies legit anti tank.  The Frag Missile is all but useless (unless you fight A LOT of Orks/Nids).  Most players seem to prefer the AC or MeltaFist to keep costs down while still giving the Terminator some firepower.  Just remember that if they move, -1 to hit :(

 

- HF aren't bad because they're one of the few mobile "heavy" options Terminators can take, though you won't want to DS them since they'll be out of range.  Terminators so equipped will be better off in a LR or Corvus.

 

- Depends on what you want to do with them, and by this I mean transport/mobility.  If they're going to Deep Strike, you'll want to load up on guns they can use right away.  If they're going to sit in a Corvus, they're more likely to get into melee safely and therefore you can tool them up for that purpose if you want.

 

- Terminators make decent "tanks" for your Veterans, though with the cost drop on SS we can get 3++ on any given Veteran now, making Terminators less desirable.  Still, a Hammernator is a beastly model to kill and splashing 1 or 2 of them into a Kill Team could be just the ticket for protecting your Frag Cannon investment.

 

- You're right to stay away from the IFB; it's overpriced and lacks focus (Miyagi quote engaged).  You have what sounds like a good all-around setup to start with, though I'm sure more experienced folks will have a counterpoint.

 

- Dual pistols is a fun build, with BP/PP being a neat choice because it gives you a lot of flexibility.  This does come out a bit on the pricey side, but there again you're playing DW so that's to be expected.  Splashing a SS or two can help (again, the points reduction was huge) but in the end these are still MEQ and will still squish when enough torrent comes their way.

 

- If you want to run a lot of linked AC, Kromlech (no I don't work for them) offers a fantastic budget choice (https://bitsofwar.com/home/498-legionary-apc-turret-twin-minigun.html) which I have personally used and enjoyed.  Other than this, the price hike on TL AC did give the RB a kick in the pants, and many players are looking to linked LC instead.  I personally feel that the linked HB is a decent budget option but the linked AC is still the king.

 

- The Xenophase Sword is a nice upgrade with a nifty ability, though it's somewhat costly.  Since you Captain can take a TH, he probably should, but I understand wanting to do something different.

 

- Really, the best way to use a Dreadnought these days is as a firing platform.  They're not squishy but they tend to get punked out before they can get to grips, so just loading him up for ranged (with a ML) is often the most useful choice.  Still, if you want to keep him flexible leaving the PF on is fine but I wouldn't waste the points for the HF since it's unlikely he'll get to use it often.

 

- The best use for Kill Teams is splashing Terminators in to tank shots for your expensive Veterans.  Other than this, it's not a particularly amazing option and pure DW squads often get more done.  Most players keep to minimum squads for DW because they're just so expensive, and it's important to spread those points around a bit to get better field coverage.

 

Now a question for you:  any plans to pick up Corvus Blackstars?  Are you completely opposed to Primaris models?  What about splashing some Inquisition into the force?  Just asking for clarity as there are some excellent options in there.

[Major_Gilbear]

Thanks for your reply Vel. :)

 

With respect to some of your responses:

 

Terminators

Yeah, I want to keep these a bit more interesting than a "regular" SM Terminator squad. So dual heavy weapons, some power swords, and the melta-fist all help convey that. I realise that SB+PS is probably the most cost effective solution though, although a few SS&TH members would boost survivability.

 

The CML just looks like bad way to spend 50pts on heavy weapons to me. The -1 to hit if you move, the average performance of ML this edition, and the poor Frag missile profile (2D3 vs the 1D6 of a normal ML Frag is... mediocre), I think I'd rather just take 5 DW Vets with 4 MLs.

 

 

Deathwatch Veterans

I love the variety of options on these, but they just look like you could overspend points on them sooo easily! I'm also less convinced of options like shotguns and I'm struggling to see what benefit they'd have over the bolters (as you pay for the SIA either way). Ditto the regular Thunder Hammer vs the heavy version. I have a sense that these might be better saved for possible future army expansions though.

 

 

Vanguard Veterans

Pistols seems to be the way to maximise their abilities, and melee seems like a great way to lose the squad quickly.

 

 

Razorbacks

For £12.30 I can buy the official AC turret in plastic from GW via the LRC upgrade sprue (link). So as much as I like Kromlech's, at EUR12, I'm not really saving much; it's still a cost increase of 50% on the RB kit either way.

 

 

Dreadnought

I have the Venerable Dread (and also a spare plastic Contemptor come think of it). In terms of what they bring to the army, I felt the lascannons on the Ven Dread were probably more useful. Sadly, I think that the rules/kit don't allow me to swap the CCW for a ML?

 

 

Watch Captain

The Xenophase is expensive generally, yes. It *is* very cool, but I'm thinking that a TH might be more different from the Watch master or Artemis though. Then again, does that matter all that much?

 

 

Future Additions

I doubt I'll add a Blackstar to the force. Maybe in the future I'd consider it if this becomes a full-blown army, but we're generally not much into flyers in our group.

 

Primaris... I have plenty of these in other SM forces already, so they are not high on my priority list for DW. If there's anything particularly DW-themed, I'd certainly consider it though.

 

Inquisition I would be more interested in. Frankly, I always thought that the DW operated closely with Ordo Xenos in the same way that the GK operate closely with Ordo Malleus. However, as a DW army, I feel the DW should be the focus and that anything added in from the Inquisition should fit thematically.

[Vel'Cona]

No . . . flyers?  But the Corvus is so pretty! 

 

Yeah but I get playing to the groupthink.  It's why FW stuff isn't very popular locally.  I'd prefer to have a friendly group that sets their own boundaries than the tomfoolery that comes from WAACitude.  To each their own, OFC  :)

 

Good points on all the other bullets, though.  I feel like you have an idea for what you want to do as is, so there's probably not much for it at this point but to get building!  Or, having done that already, get painting!  :D

[Major_Gilbear]

No . . . flyers?  But the Corvus is so pretty! 

 

Yeah but I get playing to the groupthink.  It's why FW stuff isn't very popular locally.  I'd prefer to have a friendly group that sets their own boundaries than the tomfoolery that comes from WAACitude.  To each their own, OFC 

 

Well, it's less groupthink, and more about the scale of game we want to play. We play a wide variety of miniatures games (and have done for decades), and we don't really feel that flyers and superheavies have added anything we enjoy to the regular 40k game. Occasional games with a flyer or a superheavy? Sure. Every 40k game with these? Nah, that's what we have three editions of Epic for! ;)

 

Really, that's also why I'm asking for advice and help here rather than just posting an army list for appraisal - I'm interested in what DW units and loadouts people are currently using that they're finding fun and/or effective, and why. If it's just a case of drafting in Primaris, FW models, and other "Imperial Soup" stuff in order to get an effective army... Well, it's not very Deathwatch then, is it? :P

[Kargrym]

Frag cannons are the business, model as many of those as you can.

 

Same for the Stalker pattern bolters, make them their own unit.

 

Model those cool deathwatch shields on normal bolter people for ablative wounds to cover your frag cannons.

 

Make Blackshields and give them a power weapon.

 

Use the combi bit for either combi-plasma or combi-melta.

 

Temper your enthusiasm on the Heavy Thunder hammer, that thing is expensive and dies easy, but you will want to model 1-2 for fun.

 

Don't underestimate the power of the bolter/chainsword with special issue ammo, having guys with those are better than you realize.

 

Figure out how your will deal with vehicles. normal dudes handle infantry just fine, but we are light  on fast vehicle destruction options.

 

Shotguns are middling. temper your enthusiasm on them, they are great in theory but perform only ok in life.

 

Vanguard need the over 9" solution because failed charges suck when you are pure melee. plasma pistol are great for that if you have them.

 

Terminators are insanely expensive but are good to sprinkle into your kill teams for woundsinks.