Blood Angels Troops discussion

[Schwills]

Hello fellow sons of Sanguinius,

My plan for this topic is for it to develop into a database of information regarding our three troop choices, including what loadouts to equip them with and how to properly use them on the tabletop. Before that however, I will cover why troops are so essential to us as blood Angels players.

Redundancy:
Troops offer numbers where other units do not. Often times blood Angels armies can become very elite heavy and will often struggle to hold objectives, spreading themselves to thinly across the table. Troops such as scouts help balance this out for blood Angels players as they can deploy anywhere more than 9inches away from the enemies deployment zone - helping BA players start the game on an objective or in an advantageous position, while also not giving up too much if they are stopped dead in their tracks.

Objective Secured:
Another great reason to take troops. Objective secured is essential when it comes to objective based missions as so many times (In my personal experience anyway) it has won me games. Furthermore the new chapter approved missions rely so much of good board control I think Obsec is too good to pass up when you need to bunker down and sit on objectives for a few turns.

Red Thirst:
This is one of the aspects that make our troops better than normal Space marine troops. Being able to reliably wound T4 in combat on 3’s and T3 on 2’s is amazing (proving you charged or were charged anyway). It’s what makes intercessors actually rather scary with their two attacks base and the same goes for combat blade scouts squads.

Command Points:
This is the most important reason of why Blood Angels players need troops in my opinion, to fill the minimum requirements of detachments that give us the most amount of precious command points that we rely so heavily on. Descent of Angels, Honour the Chapter, Killshot, Death visions of sanguinius, forlorn Fury - just to name a few stratagems, are useless if we cannot afford them.

Now that we have covered why I think it is essential blood Angels players use troops, I now would like to get into specifics, including loadouts and the correct play style of certain units.

 

 

Scouts:
The first unit here are humble scouts. At the lowest base price of 11pts per model, these guys offer the cheapest way of filling a battalion and in my opinion, they’re really good.

Without looking at weapon options, any scout unit can infiltrate when they are deployed, allowing you to place them more than 9inches away from an enemy deployment zone. This allows them to camp an objective that is not in yours - which is super useful in itself. Furthermore, because they are placed before the game begins, they are able to act on turn 1 normally and can therefore move, shoot and charge, which makes certain weapon options more valid. Not only that, but even if you don’t go first and your opponent decides to shoot them off the board - then at least they’re not shooting at your other stuff.

Loadouts I like:

Barebones boltguns and Camo cloaks:
I like these guys for one reason - objectives! These guys can safely infiltrate onto an objective and sit there all game if needed. Their boltguns give them solid midfield control and their camo cloaks help keep them safe while they camp it out.

Combat blades and a special Pistol for the Sergeant:
This loadout is my go to if I want a scout squad in my opponents face turn 1. The combat blades aren’t bad paired with the red Thirst and the pistol can help out once the scouts move in, or help clear models from a combat they might get stuck in. This squad is best used to deploy near a vehicle and if possible tie it up or a to take down a light screening unit.

Loadouts I don’t like:

Sniper rifles:

I don’t like them. In my opinion they only pay off in number and even then they are expensive. I don’t bother with them most the time. I could maybe see the use for one squad with camo cloaks to camp an objective at the back of your deployment zone - but I still think I’d prefer to save the points and go with bolters.

Loadouts I can’t speak for:
I cannot speak for shotgun scouts as I have never fielded any. This is where you guys come in and I would be happy to hear your opinions of these guys. I could definitely see a squad of these guys coupled with an inferno pistol on the sergeant working well as an aggressive squad.

 

Tactical squads:
The traditional poster boys of the imperium. These superhuman warriors are unmatched by none (well kinda not anymore but still)

I like these guys as well, but I only like them for specific roles that Intercessor Squads cannot do. For example, I like a unit in my deployment zone with a single cannon or a unit in a razorback with a special weapon or two. Which leads me onto the loadout section.

Loadouts I like:

Backfield lascannon support squad:
Single lascannon and four bolters. Nothing fancy but it works. Get a few squad and sit them with a captain and they should do some work for you.

Razorback backbone:
Take a couple of razorbacks with a couple of tactical squads, throwing in a special weapon of your choice (Mine is either a melta or a plasma weapon of sorts) and you’re onto a good start to make the core of your force.


In my opinion these are the best ways to run tac squads. The days of running a combi plasma and plasma gun to run as a mid field unit are gone I think - intercessors do it better, which is a good Segway into the last unit...

 

Intercessors:
These guys are the new dudes in town and they’re lean and mean. I think for blood Angels armies they are great and here is why.

The favour a semi aggressive playstyle while also offering support as they push themselves up the board. The two wounds each, these guys help keep the core of your force strong while your elite units do the real work - not saying these guys can’t with their two attacks each coupled with the red thirst.

I personally like taking 3 squads of these guys with a priest to help them punch other T4 troop equivalents on 2’s.

I take bolt rifles on these guys, with a chai sword on the sergeant. I could also seeing auto bolt rifles working as well.

Stalker bolt rifles are a whole different matter however and could only see them being used for a backfield unit to maybe replace sniper scouts (Offering the same save if in cover, ap-2, 2W, 2A, Higher LD for roughly 1 more melta bomb than Sniper rifle/camo cloak scouts. 

So that’s my opinion on our troops section. I’d love to hear your thoughts and the load outs that work/have worked for you!

[Panzer]

Nice write up. I agree on pretty much everything and want to add some things to Intercessors.

 

I don't like the Auto Boltrifle. At all. It being an Assault weapon seems to promote an aggressive playstyle but that's a trap.

Hitting worse and having AP0 instead of AP-1 is not worth it to get faster to the enemy...and why should you? You don't get anything by moving closer than max range with Assault Rifles anyway.

The only thing they are good for is keeping the distance and maybe running from objective to objective.

 

The Rapid fire Bolt rifles on the other hand are the real assault-y variant since it wants to be within half range to unleash its full potential.

 

The Stalker Rifle is in a sad place I think. It would be a great weapon with the Sniper rule but in its current form it's a bit underwhelming. The only way I can see me ever using them is together with a Stalker Rifle Lieutenant to help them wound stuff with their S4.

[Schwills]

Nice write up. I agree on pretty much everything and want to add some things to Intercessors.

 

I don't like the Auto Boltrifle. At all. It being an Assault weapon seems to promote an aggressive playstyle but that's a trap.

Hitting worse and having AP0 instead of AP-1 is not worth it to get faster to the enemy...and why should you? You don't get anything by moving closer than max range with Assault Rifles anyway.

The only thing they are good for is keeping the distance and maybe running from objective to objective.

 

 

Thank you, and yeah good point! I always seem to forget that you never need to get very close with the auto bolt rifles for them to reach their full potential (Albeit if it is rather lackluster potential anyways) 

 

I think they could be useful if you often find yourself facing up against T3 light infantry spam that you don't wanna get caught up in (Gaunts come to mind). This way you could keep your distance on an objective, while providing some fire power. Still though I think I'd still equip my intercessors with bolt rifles for a more TAC approach. 

[Schwills]

On a different note entirely, I often find myself wanting to fill two battalions worth of troops and am often not sure what combinations of different troop units to take. 

Currently I am aiming to run 2:1:3 ratio of Scouts, Tactical and Intercessor squads in that order. 

 

One of the scout squads take combat blades, the other boltguns. 

The tactical squad takes a single lascannon to sit on my backfield objective. 

The three Intercessor squads march up the field and provide a backbone to my force. 

 

Has anyone else got a different combination of troops that they prefer? What success has it brought you if so? 

 

Thanks. 

[Karhedron]

When I finish painting, I am aiming to try double Battalion with 2 CCW Scouts, 2 LasTac squads and 2 Intercessor squads. Add 4 HQs and that is 9CPs and it still leaves well over 1000 points to buys some tasty Elite units to make use of those CPs.

[brother_b]

If playing PL, sniper squads are the same price as every other squad. I still would recommend only taking snipers in groups of 10. Pricey for points, a bargain for PL.

[Deschenus Maximus]

I've given up completely on Tacticals. Their meager firepower and high cost is just no justifiable. Scouts do the midfield thing (barebones with bolters, no cloaks), Devastators hold the backfield. The lack of ObSec is just too situationaly disadvantageous to matter.

[Charlo]

I think Shotguns on scouts are a strange one.

 

When you can deploy so close to the enemy, being able to advance and shoot isn't really necessary. The S5 within 6" is achievable, but you are probably better off just taking a combat knife to get an extra attack in combat and being pseudo S5 there thanks to red Thirst.

[Panzer]

On a different note entirely, I often find myself wanting to fill two battalions worth of troops and am often not sure what combinations of different troop units to take. 

Currently I am aiming to run 2:1:3 ratio of Scouts, Tactical and Intercessor squads in that order. 

 

One of the scout squads take combat blades, the other boltguns. 

The tactical squad takes a single lascannon to sit on my backfield objective. 

The three Intercessor squads march up the field and provide a backbone to my force. 

 

Has anyone else got a different combination of troops that they prefer? What success has it brought you if so? 

 

Thanks. 

Tacticals with Lascannons are definitely a great idea if you don't have enough anti-tank in your list already. However a single unit of those won't do much on their own. They benefit from redundancy so you should take 3-4 Tacticals with Lascannons if you want to go that route. ;)

[Aothaine]

 

 They benefit from redundancy so you should take 3-4 Tacticals with Lascannons if you want to go that route.

 

 

This is the best point to make about Tactical squads I feel. Redundancy is key to their success. The load outs I enjoy are the following.

 

5-man with Lascannon

5-man with Plasma Gun and Combi-Plasma

5-man with Melta Gun and Combi-Melta

 

 

They each serve a purpose and can load up into a razorback. But you want to make sure that you take them in at least groups of 3. Imagine six units of the 5-man units with Lascannon on your opponent's back field. You are most likely not going to wipe all those out on your first turn and they will put a dent in what you have fielded as well as give your opponent 30 tactical marines with Obsec to secure objectives. Funny thing is.. if you don't deploy them in Razorbacks they are fairly cheap giving you plenty of points left for what ever else you want.

 

==================

 

Scouts are another unit I love. I am going to be fielding my in Land Speeder Storms with Boltguns. I honestly don't think they need combat knives and shotguns don't have the same impact as boltguns imho unless you're running them in 10-man squads which is something I might think about doing. But my scout list is using Whirlwinds and land speeder storms and scout bikers. 

 

==================

 

Then we get to my new favorite troop choice. Intecessors. These guys are amazing for us and I agree with sfPanzer that they need Bolt Rifles.

[brother_b]

I've given up completely on Tacticals. Their meager firepower and high cost is just no justifiable. Scouts do the midfield thing (barebones with bolters, no cloaks), Devastators hold the backfield. The lack of ObSec is just too situationaly disadvantageous to matter.

Yup. Again, PL they're great. Two special weapons (combi on sgt.) and a heavy weapon for 5 PL is a great price, the same as a bare bones intercessor squad. Points level, it gets pricey quick.

[brother_b]

I think Shotguns on scouts are a strange one.

 

When you can deploy so close to the enemy, being able to advance and shoot isn't really necessary. The S5 within 6" is achievable, but you are probably better off just taking a combat knife to get an extra attack in combat and being pseudo S5 there thanks to red Thirst.

I think the overall damage out put of shotgun scouts, including shooting at S5 and then engaging with close combat is better than CC scouts (bolter shots and then close combat). I'm pretty sure I saw the breakdown somewhere, with the whole math hammer breakdown. I can't, however, remember where that was.

 

That being said, I've had good luck with my shotgun scouts, accompanied by a scout sgt. with CC weapon.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Yup. Again, PL they're great. Two special weapons (combi on sgt.) and a heavy weapon for 5 PL is a great price, the same as a bare bones intercessor squad. Points level, it gets pricey quick.

 

Yep. Unfortunate, since they are my favorite type of squad :(

[Syrex]

 

I think Shotguns on scouts are a strange one.

 

When you can deploy so close to the enemy, being able to advance and shoot isn't really necessary. The S5 within 6" is achievable, but you are probably better off just taking a combat knife to get an extra attack in combat and being pseudo S5 there thanks to red Thirst.

I think the overall damage out put of shotgun scouts, including shooting at S5 and then engaging with close combat is better than CC scouts (bolter shots and then close combat). I'm pretty sure I saw the breakdown somewhere, with the whole math hammer breakdown. I can't, however, remember where that was.

 

That being said, I've had good luck with my shotgun scouts, accompanied by a scout sgt. with CC weapon.

 

You're right, within 6 inches, Shotgun Scouts do 2.37 unsaved wounds to MEQ including close combat

BP+CB Scouts do 2.186

 

Change this to 7" though, and the BP + CS come out ahead (SG scouts do 2 wounds exactly). BG Scouts of course are identical to SG Scouts when within 12"

 

I feel like all 3 are fairly balanced against each other, and each has their benefits. I generally run 3-4 squads, so end up with a mix. Bolters on the ones that sit back a bit to clog space (against alpha strike), SG or BP/CB for mid table.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Syrex

[Schwills]

 

On a different note entirely, I often find myself wanting to fill two battalions worth of troops and am often not sure what combinations of different troop units to take. 

Currently I am aiming to run 2:1:3 ratio of Scouts, Tactical and Intercessor squads in that order. 

 

One of the scout squads take combat blades, the other boltguns. 

The tactical squad takes a single lascannon to sit on my backfield objective. 

The three Intercessor squads march up the field and provide a backbone to my force. 

 

Has anyone else got a different combination of troops that they prefer? What success has it brought you if so? 

 

Thanks. 

Tacticals with Lascannons are definitely a great idea if you don't have enough anti-tank in your list already. However a single unit of those won't do much on their own. They benefit from redundancy so you should take 3-4 Tacticals with Lascannons if you want to go that route.

 

Huh Yeah i'd imagine 3-4 Tactical squads would be pretty sweet with a lascannon in each. At that point though I'd be tempted to stick a captain and/or an ancient with the relic for additional support (Although i'm not sure investing so many points into my backfield is a good idea, especially one that would be very slow as well)  

Edited December 24, 2017 by Schwills

[Schwills]

 

 

 They benefit from redundancy so you should take 3-4 Tacticals with Lascannons if you want to go that route.

 

 

This is the best point to make about Tactical squads I feel. Redundancy is key to their success. The load outs I enjoy are the following.

 

5-man with Lascannon

5-man with Plasma Gun and Combi-Plasma

5-man with Melta Gun and Combi-Melta

 

 

They each serve a purpose and can load up into a razorback. But you want to make sure that you take them in at least groups of 3. Imagine six units of the 5-man units with Lascannon on your opponent's back field. You are most likely not going to wipe all those out on your first turn and they will put a dent in what you have fielded as well as give your opponent 30 tactical marines with Obsec to secure objectives. Funny thing is.. if you don't deploy them in Razorbacks they are fairly cheap giving you plenty of points left for what ever else you want.

 

==================

 

Scouts are another unit I love. I am going to be fielding my in Land Speeder Storms with Boltguns. I honestly don't think they need combat knives and shotguns don't have the same impact as boltguns imho unless you're running them in 10-man squads which is something I might think about doing. But my scout list is using Whirlwinds and land speeder storms and scout bikers. 

 

==================

 

Then we get to my new favorite troop choice. Intecessors. These guys are amazing for us and I agree with sfPanzer that they need Bolt Rifles.

 

Yeah I agree with both the tactical and Intercessor opinions you have here. I do like scouts with combat knifes however as they allow me to put that little bit more pressure on my opponent. They can also absorb some overwatch for a more important unit. Not saying the normal ones can't be used this way but I like coupling the extra attack with the red thirst. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Schwills

[Schwills]

 

 

I think Shotguns on scouts are a strange one.

 

When you can deploy so close to the enemy, being able to advance and shoot isn't really necessary. The S5 within 6" is achievable, but you are probably better off just taking a combat knife to get an extra attack in combat and being pseudo S5 there thanks to red Thirst.

I think the overall damage out put of shotgun scouts, including shooting at S5 and then engaging with close combat is better than CC scouts (bolter shots and then close combat). I'm pretty sure I saw the breakdown somewhere, with the whole math hammer breakdown. I can't, however, remember where that was.

 

That being said, I've had good luck with my shotgun scouts, accompanied by a scout sgt. with CC weapon.

 

You're right, within 6 inches, Shotgun Scouts do 2.37 unsaved wounds to MEQ including close combat

BP+CB Scouts do 2.186

 

Change this to 7" though, and the BP + CS come out ahead (SG scouts do 2 wounds exactly). BG Scouts of course are identical to SG Scouts when within 12"

 

I feel like all 3 are fairly balanced against each other, and each has their benefits. I generally run 3-4 squads, so end up with a mix. Bolters on the ones that sit back a bit to clog space (against alpha strike), SG or BP/CB for mid table.

 

Yeah when I take scouts, I often take a mix of them as I find they can adapt well to the battlefield.

Like you said, if you need to block an Alpha strike they can be deployed in front of your lines to give yourself another turn to get up your defenses. If you don't need to block an alpha strike then they can be deployed onto an objective and sit there all game (Hopefully they'll have bolters to provide some fire support). 

 

One thing I would like to try out is 6 X 5 man squads of combat blade scouts, purely to wrap them round my opponents deployment zone and force way too many targets turn 1! I feel this would really force my opponent to be hot on his heels from the get go. 

 

Has anyone tried this? Or something similar? Let me know! 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Schwills