How to expand with Dark Imperium?

[Fidras]

So Santa was kind to me and brought me a Dark Imperium box for the Holidays.  It's been...ages...since I've played 40k, but with the new edition / codexes / fluff / models I'm jumping back into the hobby with a new army and a new painting queue

 

I'm wanting to jump into Raven Guard, but I'm wondering how I should expand beyond the small fleet of Primaris I get in the DI box.  While I have the Space Marine Codex, I'm wondering what people have been finding that either works or doesn't work in this edition.  I'm never going to be a hardcore tournament player, but while I do lean toward the fluff / painting side of the hobby, I want to make an army that is at least challenging in friendly or pick up games, while at least *feeling* like a Raven Guard army, if that makes sense.

 

I feel like the next natural things to pick up would be:

 

• Reivers
• Jump pack squad, either assault or Vanguard Vets
• Scouts
• Some sort of flyer

 

Beyond that I really don't have any idea, and am hoping to leech some advise off those of you who are way better players than I!

 

**Edit for a general question:  I really like the Dark Fury Horus Heresy models, are they alright as a Vanguard Vet squad in 40K?

Edited December 27, 2017 by Fidras

[WAR]

The major downside of Primaris marines is the lack of Anti Tank and the Repulsor is an expensive build. With the DI Box you are at 2 hqs, 1 elite, 2 Trrops, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy. 

 

Everything you listed is good options but i would take a Dev squad first to deal with tanks and monsters

 

and yes Dark Furies could count as VV

Edited December 27, 2017 by war009

[N1SB]

Congratulations on a great gift and welcome back!  Just some experience sharing from 8th edition, understanding that you're returning to The Hobby.  In 8th, not only have MEQs changed, but the whole meta is kinda different.  In an age of save modifiers, power armour doesn't quite offer the same defense it used to be.  Dedicated Transports, like the ubiquitous Rhino, have gone up points so that they're not always an auto-take.  Our meta's really been taking a hard look at Marines.

 

With issues like that in mind, Raven Guard seems one of the more powerful Chapter Tactics now combined with the new weaponry available to Primaris in particular.  Subtracting 1 from shots from 12"+ away turns out to greatly enhance their durability, especially considering how many of the Primaris guns are 30" now.  If you ever faced off Tau gunlines, Raven Guard do that long-range style even better than Tau do.  I myself am considering a RG Successor like Raptors now.

 

With that in mind, let's go to your questions.

 

SCOUTS - are even more relevant now than ever.  Of your list, those are the most attractive choice to me.  Not only Sniper Scouts, due to their long-range taking advantage of your Chapter Tactics, but even Bolter or even close combat Scouts to take Objectives due to the costs of Dedicated Transports making them the points-efficient choice.  The Objective Secured rule that allows Troops to have priority in capping Objectives is back now.

 

DARK FURY - on the aesthetic issue, other 30k units like Contemptor Dreadnoughts and Cataphractii Terminator Armour are more common now, so this totally wouldn't look out of place.  From a design perspective I think it's a great idea tbh as Vanguard Veterans with Lightning Claws.  I'm not sure how effective they'll be though, as when we talk about Jump Pack Assault, we generally go to the Blood Angels.  But probably totally worth it for Rule of Cool alone.

 

HELLBLASTERS WITH PRIMARIS ANCIENT (Relic optional) - in previous editions, we focused on units combined with gear.  In 8th, it's also about units combined with buffs provided by characters (who are now more than slightly more powerful warriors, but actual leaders).  Your boxed set includes the Primaris Ancient.

 

This takes some putting together but I saw this in action just this week and I'm impressed by how it works with Raven Guard in particular.

 

You mentioned Primaris Reivers, but it's the Primaris Hellblasters that are particularly scary with the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic.  They have 30" Plasma Rifles, so keep in mind you're still Rapid Firing at 15" range, out of that 12" bubble where enemies still have a -1 modifier to hit you.  Plasma guns also have Overcharging as an option now in 8th, so you can choose whether to risk having it blow up in your hands if you roll a 1 to hit (in exchange for higher Strength and Damage).

 

The Ancient character type gives your units within 6" of him a 4+ chance to fire a parting shot when they fall.  Well, if a Hellblaster is falling anyway...might as well Overcharge that Plasma Rifle up, they got nothing to lose!  An optional Relic, the Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, turns that 4+ chance to a 3+.

 

So imagine a unit that outranges most enemies except for Heavy Weapons, that have negative modifiers even if they're within range, who are in fact doing the most damage the moment they die.  Your enemy has to come to you, but they're going to take a beating, and you have some pretty good counter-charge units in mind.

 

PUTTING IT TOGETHER - I'm thinking like Bolter Scouts to capture forward objectives and Sniper Scouts to hold a home objective, Vanguard Veteran vets to jump in to support if they get charged, then Hellblasters with your Ancient (and probably the Captain for to hit re-rolls) to provide covering fire.

[duz_]

Welcome back to the hobby! :)

8th is an awesome spot to dive back in.

 

DI is a good start, did you want to keep with Primaris or expand out?

Certainly the Reivers look great, although I can't comment on their combat effectiveness. Certainly aggressors are great and VVs definitely (fury counts as are fine by me, rule of cool wins with that one!).

 

Scouts are super handy for deep strike area denial. Regular tactical squads and devastator squads are useful too!

I dont know if you want tanks in your list but the Autocannon and lascannon predators are fairly decent this ed too.

 

Are you going with the standard RG scheme? Feel free to start a WiP thread here in the Ravenspire! :D

[Fidras]

Awesome! Thank you for the replies and the welcomes, I appreciate it.

 

Initially, I was thinking I wanted t to mix Primaris and non-Primaris units - mainly cause I like things like scouts, VV, etc., but the more I think about it, at least the Primaris are newer models and something different to paint, instead of just yet another marine.  So I dunno - I will definitely do the DI box pieces first though.  Still deciding on either default Raven Guard scheme or making a successor chapter.  A lot will depend on which paints I have that are still usable ;)

 

Appreciate the info about the Hellblasters and overlapping character buffs.  That's an interesting thought - and way different type of game than when I used to play "Drive a rhino filled with powerfists straight at the bad guys."  Like I said it's been several editions.  Will definitely look into getting some more Hellblasters and a Dev squad (or Predator) for anti tank duty.  How are Land Speeders these days?   Is a storm worthwhile for some scouts?

 

The Dark Fury models are just something I was interested in for looks.  I love the backpacks; I'm not much of a model converter and I wasn't sure how to get wings like those otherwise.  Sanguinary guard wings are too angel - y imo, and most alternate wing manufactures are in the EU/UK so shipping gets pricey.

 

Feels like the elites slot gets pretty crowded this edition with all the cool toys you can take there.

[duz_]

My RG elite slots certainly get taken up these days! If only Aggressors and Reivers were other roles ...

 

Unfortunately the Land Speeder and Storm have taken a hit this edition as they're fairly squishy and are penalised for moving... 

The scouts are better of infiltrating with camo cloaks and -1 to hit than driving up in a LSS.

 

VV's I find are a lot of fun this edition, but still very expensive.

[WAR]

Unfortunately the Land Speeder and Storm have taken a hit this edition as they're fairly squishy and are penalised for moving...

This almost killed my Raptors this edition.....

[Claws and Effect]

On the Dark Furies: Do it!

 

If you pair them with Shrike, you have a mean assault unit.

 

Consider: Shrike provides reroll to hit (and is the cheapest Chapter Master in the codex to boot), and lightning claws naturally reroll to wound.

 

Also, since Shrike is locked into the Raven Guard Warlord Trait, you can charge him first to deny your target Overwatch shooting.

 

I wouldn't assault anything especially tough with that group, since they're only Strength 4, but if you get them into a gunline they'll wreak havoc.

 

I like using the Strike from the Shadows Strategem to get Shrike and friends in range for a turn 1 charge.

[SyNidus]

Welcome Back and Welcome to the Chapter! You've picked the best damned chapter there is, propoganda be damned.

 

The DI box has a solid set. Hellblasters are a great way to expand upon the box as mentioned. So are the dark furies, though i'd recommend getting vanguard veterans boxes instead because they have a ton of bits, tons of close combat weapons with which to outfit them.

Scouts are worth their weight in gold.

 

Also, razorbacks are still a great choice for gunboats.

[Race Bannon]

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 "Drive a rhino filled with powerfists straight at the bad guys."  

 

*remembers fondly* Ahh yes. Those were the days.

 

Lots of great advice so far. Some things to note in meta shift since you played last until now (I went through a similar wait period and just got back into the game at the tail end of 8th):

 

1) It is a shooting mans game. That does not mean that you cannot assault, you can, it just needs to be used as a scalpel. As others have mentioned, Vanguard Veterans would fill this role. They will need character support and they can get expensive and die fast when exposed to enemy fire, so keep that in mind. I used to roll up the board with 30 Assault Marines accompanied by Chaplains with a backyard full of scouts and thought myself a tactical genius...

 

2) Assault marines are, sadly, garbage. You may hearken back to days where 10 ASMs, a Sarge with a Powerfist and some plasma pistols could do some serious work (along with a boatload of Melta Bombs). Those days are over. If you want something in Jump Packs to actually get into ASSAULT you will want to use Vanguard Veterans. That being said small ASM squads can be used in an MSU fashion to hold objectives and be annoying (preferably with 2xFlamer)

 

3) Challenges are gone now in the 7th to 8th edition transition, so Sergeants are back to being slightly better in combat in terms of survival (the "hidden powerfist" strategy of old). That being said, there really isn't a good reason to have tactical squads up super close anymore. If they're close its usually because the bad guys are running at you (Bugs, Khorne boys, etc).

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

[seriade]

One other thing you may look at is betrayal at calph it provides 30 basic mk4 marines (they do match the primaris) a contemptor dread, 5 terminators and a chaplain and captain in terminator armor.

[Fidras]

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

I actually have a Betrayal at Calth box that was given to me by a friend awhile back in an attempt to lure me into 30K.  I never played a game of it, or even the Calth Board game, but I did paint up the minis already ><.   (World Eaters and Alpha Legion...I was definitely reading Horus Heresy books at the time...)

 

Thanks again for all the advice all, seems like the next logical purchases for me would be some scouts (both bolter and sniper), and maybe a dev squad and/or a razorback.  Between that and the BI box I should have enough wiggle room to start up an army and grow a bit.  After some games I will work in some VV and a flyer. Oh! and a dreadnought because they are awesome. 

[Claws and Effect]

For the flyer, I highly recommend the Fire Raptor. It's a beast of a gunship.

 

Dreadnought wise? I really love my Raven Guard Contemptor. I have mine armed with a Kheres and CCW so I can decide whether to use the Relic version or the normal version from the codex.

[seriade]

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

I actually have a Betrayal at Calth box that was given to me by a friend awhile back in an attempt to lure me into 30K.  I never played a game of it, or even the Calth Board game, but I did paint up the minis already ><.   (World Eaters and Alpha Legion...I was definitely reading Horus Heresy books at the time...)

 

Thanks again for all the advice all, seems like the next logical purchases for me would be some scouts (both bolter and sniper), and maybe a dev squad and/or a razorback.  Between that and the BI box I should have enough wiggle room to start up an army and grow a bit.  After some games I will work in some VV and a flyer. Oh! and a dreadnought because they are awesome. 

 

naa the next logial purchace is some simple green to reclaim the models 

[WAR]

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

 

 

Ravenspire Lord and Commander Race Bannon requests all Ravenspire members build land raiders (and send them to him).  Eventually we all do build one....

[duz_]

RB is actually a Guard treadhead in disguise. ;)

[Race Bannon]

You guys = :wub: ... in that Astartes kinda way, of course.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

 

 

Ravenspire Lord and Commander Race Bannon requests all Ravenspire members build land raiders (and send them to him).  Eventually we all do build one....

 

 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to purchase me that sweet sweet Land Raider Excelsior - I have had it in my minds eye as the perfect add to my Boys in Black 

 

This way I can appease the RB Overlord in style. 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to 

[WAR]

 

 

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

 

 

Ravenspire Lord and Commander Race Bannon requests all Ravenspire members build land raiders (and send them to him).  Eventually we all do build one....

 

 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to purchase me that sweet sweet Land Raider Excelsior - I have had it in my minds eye as the perfect add to my Boys in Black 

 

This way I can appease the RB Overlord in style. 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to 

 

 

 

paging MajorNese Paging MajorNese...your brothers over the pond want to send you Money

[Race Bannon]

If this is going to be a thing then honor demands I participate.

[Fidras]

Ravenguard Land Raider painting competition? :D

[MajorNese]

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the Ravenspire!

 

A lot has been said that I could have added, soooo ...

 

Do you like Land Raiders?

 

 

 

 

Brother your temperament towards Fire and Fury is ever vigilant.

 

Push that agenda!

 

 

 

I feel like I'm on the outside of an inside joke here...   In case I'm not, I always thought Crusaders were great, Original Recipe Land Raiders were confused...and that's all I had to work with when I played outside FW.

 

 

 

Ravenspire Lord and Commander Race Bannon requests all Ravenspire members build land raiders (and send them to him).  Eventually we all do build one....

 

 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to purchase me that sweet sweet Land Raider Excelsior - I have had it in my minds eye as the perfect add to my Boys in Black 

 

This way I can appease the RB Overlord in style. 

I need to find someone on the forum going to Warhammer World who can take my money to 

 

 

 

paging MajorNese Paging MajorNese...your brothers over the pond want to send you Money

 

...what? I'm not anywhere near Warhammer World. The anniversary captain model was a local store birthday thing.

[Race Bannon]

Let's keep the quoting to a minimum ^_^

 

As for MajorNese and WW: hopes got dashed upon the rocks of despair :cry: 

 

:lol:

 

[WAR]

Still closer than me....:D