Our Dreadnoughts

[Kappel]

Hello all

 

The index version of our dreadnoughts was discussed a lot on this forum. I think the consensus was that especially the Libby was a strong unit. But that both the libby and the Death Company Dread was a bit too points-expensive. The Furioso wasn't used much at all.

 

But what about now? I can't seem to find a lot of discussions concerning the codex version of our Dreadnoughts. The Libby and the DCD have dropped somewhat in points - and the new psychic powers means more flexibility. 

 

But what do you think? Are they still to expensive? Is the DCD still to vulnerable and difficult to get into combat? I would love to hear your thoughts and game-experiences with them. 

 

 

Cheers

[neonmole]

I think DCD can be good, but it needs a delivery system, I woundnt take one without a storm raven. With. SR though it’s a decent choice I think.

 

Furioso... I’m not sure I see much of a reason to take unfortunately, given there is no reliable way to use the frag cannon, and if you are planning on delivering up close a DCD is probably superior.

 

As far as walking options, I think the Contemptor is a real winner. Hits on 2s, is pretty quick, has invul (amazing) and not too expensive. Kheres AC is a decent weapon too. Were I taking one to deploy normally this would probably be my guy.

 

Redeptor has potential, not sure it’s as good as the Contemptor though point for point. Invul is so valuable.

 

Lib dread obviously can be very strong, but that’s been done to death. (That said I tend to think it’s pretty conclusively worse than Mephiston, and is in pretty direct competition with him, that doesn’t make it bad on its own terms though, it’s just that Mephiston is one of the best things in the book IMO)

 

Some random thoughts on the subject of dreads for you! :)

Edited December 29, 2017 by neonmole

[Are Verlo]

If you play with FW there are a few decent dreads there too. The chaplain dread is good, the Leviathan is good but it needs a delivery system, the relic contemptor is also great even at its high price (2+ save and invuln pluss some unique weapon options).

[Kappel]

Thx for the answers. I actually think that it's a pity that Mephiston out-classes the Librarian Dreadnought. It's a cool model. 

[banis]

The librarian dread can get a damage 4 weapon with warlord traiith compared to mephistons d3. 

[Panzer]

I don't think Mephiston so obviously outclasses the Librarian Dreadnought but they sure compete with eachother. One thing to keep in mind is that you can cast the same power only once per turn so even tho Mephiston is a unique unit it wouldn't make much sense to take a Librarian Dreadnought for the same purpose together with him.

[Paladin777]

In what way does he outclass the dread? The dread has t7 and much more wounds so is likely more survivable vs chaff and they’re both the same str. Admittedly Mephiston has an additional deny attempt

[brother_b]

I love dreads. I love them. I agree with the Furioso comments, for the points I would not take a CC Furioso. I'm not giving up on the Frag cannon version though. I haven't ran him yet. I will, though.

 

I think just basic dreads, especially a twin las/missile version, can be great in the backfield. I'm going to run one as a fire support. I've got assault cannon dreads as well as the multi melta. I'll have to run them more often to really find out.

 

DC dreads, love them. I'm going to of course have one in my Stormraven. 

 

I haven't considered the contemptor. I'll definitely be adding one.

 

I also plan to buy the redemptor, but see him more as a back field shooting base. The models awesome too, so would love to see that on the field.

 

I have considered taking the detachment that would allow me to field 2 DC dreads (one talon, one fists), a Frag cannon furioso, and the libby dread. I'd put them in the middle of the field and run them at the biggest/best target.

 

Anyway, more random thoughts to the mix.

[NTaW]

We now have access to standard chassis Mortis Dreads, pretty inexpensive way to cram a few more guns in your backline. A little squishier than a tri-las Predator but you get the same shots for 175 points (or 141 for a classic rifleman Dread, if you're worried about Index options going away).

 

As for our Codex options the only reason I'd take a Furioso in place of a DCD is to save some points. The Libbynaught is cool but I prefer Mephiston pretty much because I like him more.

Edited December 29, 2017 by NTaW

[Pathstrider]

Anyone have any thoughts if Red Thirst changes weapons loadout opinions? I feel like it makes blood talons a bit better

[Aothaine]

Anyone have any thoughts if Red Thirst changes weapons loadout opinions? I feel like it makes blood talons a bit better

 

It does. Problem is still delivery options. We have the forgeworld drop pod, storm raven and that is pretty much it right? Makes melee dreadnoughts a tough buy for their points and not being characters. The Libby Dreadnought is the one exception imho as it can use wings to get into charge range, can get the dmg 4 dreadnought force weapon, +d3 attacks from the power, etc etc... 

 

Edit: Something else you can do is saturate the field with though. Run Scouts in storms for quick objective capture and then run like 6-9 dreadnoughts. It won't be a very versatile list though.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Aothaine

[Crimson Ghost IX]

8th has not been kind to our formally AV13 BA dreads in my opinion which is a bummer in an otherwise mostly good codex. (see also Baal Preds)

 

The libby dread is still good. Maybe slightly too many points, but useable enuf I would feel good about taking one currently because of the Librarian parts.

 

The DCDN is too many points still and it is difficult to justify it's use outside of a dedicated advancing armour list trying to make it work really.

If you are taking one it's becasue you love dreads and GW at least tried to make it have some decent usable flavor.

 

The Furioso unfortunately is just bad in the current codex in my opinion. Especially for it's points cost but even then...

Should have been T8. Should have got extra attacks, venerable like rules or something.

Should have been cheaper to offset the overcosted hard to deliver frag cannon option at least.

It is too many points and not really effective at anything compared to the DCDN (which is also not very good) basically.

 

The other ranged dreads aka space marine equivs available are fine I suppose if you like dreads and want one.

 

CQC / short ranged dreads without drop pods suck right now is a really big issue.

Their somewhat underwhelming abilities should they gamble and live long enough to get engaged are not worth the point investment to my eyes.

If you are lucky enough to have one of the forgeworld pods they are decent-ish but still pricey.

If you are fielding them it is because you want to make that work and have the models.

 

Take a BA DN because you love them - go for it. You might damage something.

They still look badass for certain and occasionally cause some fun in a just for fun friendly game. =)

But they are an obviously less than good probably not even average choice in my opinion right now.

 

TL;DR

I will field a DCDN with my armoured list because Mr SlippyFist demands the chance for some blood. But he is overcosted and kinda hard to use.

The librarian is something you can feel good about using because of the librarian part right now.

Furioso sucks, somehow even worse than Baal Preds it seems to me.

[Blackcadian]

In what way does he outclass the dread? The dread has t7 and much more wounds so is likely more survivable vs chaff and they’re both the same str. Admittedly Mephiston has an additional deny attempt

I would like to ask the same. Mephiston is cheaper but seems also squishier and does less damage no? I guess Meph is easier to hide behind terrain, but thats about it.

[brother_b]

More attacks and feel no pain plus the deny and he's freaking MEPHISTON!!!!!

 

I'm a fan of the Mehpiston obviously.

 

;)

[banis]

More attacks and feel no pain plus the deny and he's freaking MEPHISTON!!!!!

 

I'm a fan of the Mehpiston obviously.

 

Ok now that we are down this rute:).. list of advantages

 

Mephiston

Cheaper

1 more attack

1 more deny

1 more BS(this is rather minor) 

Knows 1 more spell

Fits in more transports

1 more move

1 better save

5+ FnP

Can use double strike strategem(lib dread needs to die to strike twice)

 

Librarian dreadnought

Weapon does more damage

Weapons has better ap

2 more T

3 more wounds

Can pick warlord trait (artisian of war)

Smoke launchers 

 

Their shooting attacks are different but they are not the reason you pick them anyways.

 

But honestly i think they are well balanced against each other and for me it comes down to.. 

librarian dread: Does more damage vs big targets since his higer damage weapon scales better with more attacks.

Mephiston: Fits in more transport options. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by banis

[Kappel]

Good points on Mephiston versus Librarian Dread.

 

This discussion has definitely affected my upcoming choices of dreadnoughts. I will be looking a bit closer on the FW dreads also.

[VAeric]

I just take them both.  Mephiston with his three abilities allows you to help other units with "Unleash Rage" the Libby dread with two is wings of sanguinus and quickening... so he is kind of selfish that way.  

[Panzer]

Problem is that you can cast each power only once per phase in matched play and both want the same powers. Blood Lance and Blood Boil really aren't worth it unfortunately.

[NTaW]

Our psychic tree really doesn't support two psykers in matched play, as sfPanzer has pointed out blood boil and lance are both pretty meh. Mephy/Libbynaught casting quickening and wings, jump pack Libby casting unleash rage (usually on SG) and smite is the best my mind has juggled it. 

 

Mephiston and a Librarian Dreadnought in the same list really seems like an open play idea to me.

[banis]

I am thinking taking both and using Mephiston as part of the alpha strike in a drop pod and charge with wings and quickening. Meanwhile the librarian dread advance and smite. Turn 2. Mephiston is either dead or in the thick of it and the librarian dread and use wings and quickening.