Deepstrike your Myphitic Blight Haulers?

[Guidebot]

So, I take a detachment of deamons, I get access to the "Denizons of the Warp" stratagem, right? (If you've not yet seen it; http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/01/40k-chaos-daemons-warp-bomb.html

Myphitic blight haulers are daemons with multimeltas and bilespurts, which could be good if deepstruck.  Also, 3 of them are one unit, so that's 2CP to deploy them anywhere more than 9" from enemy models.

Do I have this right?  And if so, is it good?  

 

Cheers all

Edited January 6, 2018 by Guidebot

[Plaguecaster]

Yes for how it is worded it sounds like it will be competely possible to deepstrike a full unit of Blight haulers right in the middle of your enemy

Though I expect it comes out a lot of people facing daemon lists will moan and complain it's OP calling for a FAQ especially when the daemon Primarchs are thrown into the mix

Hopefully it won't as it sounds like a pretty powerful ability available to daemon players

[Shockmaster]

I just received my three blight haulers in the post, so looking forward to trying this out in my game next week. 

[Prot]

You might want to check out the Daemons and Death Guard post in this forum for in depth conversation. The day that Warhammer TV went live with the Codex reveals I asked them flat out about Deep striking Mort and any DG Daemon units. They confirmed as much and we’ve been exploring options there. Edited January 7, 2018 by Prot

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Its not the daemon primarchs that will get us a bad name.

 

Its the Lord of Skulls (LOS).

 

A mate of mine has a battle lined up, his Primaris vs world eaters/ khorn. His oponent already said that the LOS was going to be a staple in his Bazerker lists even before the news of the 'daemon bomb' dropped.

 

We are a tad conserned about tactics that will be used....

[Panzer]

Not the Daemon Primarchs? I dunno, man. Daemon Primarchs can FLY and cast Warptime to reliably charge anything they want regardless of bubble wrap or not. The Lord of Skulls will be scary as hell for sure as well but I wouldn't say it's that much better than Deep Striking Mortarion.

[Kruso]

Not the Daemon Primarchs? I dunno, man. Daemon Primarchs can FLY and cast Warptime to reliably charge anything they want regardless of bubble wrap or not. The Lord of Skulls will be scary as hell for sure as well but I wouldn't say it's that much better than Deep Striking Mortarion.

 

Proper bubble wrap still works because regardless of double move that primarch has to land somewhere in between the moves. Having a horde of mooks in the way prevents this, warp time or not.

[Panzer]

 

Not the Daemon Primarchs? I dunno, man. Daemon Primarchs can FLY and cast Warptime to reliably charge anything they want regardless of bubble wrap or not. The Lord of Skulls will be scary as hell for sure as well but I wouldn't say it's that much better than Deep Striking Mortarion.

 

Proper bubble wrap still works because regardless of double move that primarch has to land somewhere in between the moves. Having a horde of mooks in the way prevents this, warp time or not.

 

Yes but with warptime you can move as close as possible to the bubblewrap and then with the charge move jump over it to a free spot (not all armies have the whole board occupied), especially after shooting the bubble wrap a bit to reduce its size.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can't melt through models with a charge move that I'm aware of unless insisted it in a faq somewhere. The caveat for fly is for moving using the move characteristic, under the Movement phase section. Charge move is under the charge phase and doesn't say anything about models moving like the Movement phase with exceptions.

[McElMcNinja]

It does say if a model can fly then it can move across models and terrain as if it weren't there. Then under charge it says you can move up to what you rolled, they do not specify or differentiate new rules for moving. I would think they would have to FAQ it to say fly is treated different for the two phases.

An example is shooting on overwatch states it is treated just like normal shooting except a roll of 6 is required, no modifiers, etc.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Right, it says that under movement in the movement phase. You kind of prove my point with the overwatch example and how it specifies that it is treated as normal shooting, while there's no similar language for charge moves.

[Panzer]

First time I see someone arguing that FLY doesn't work fpr charges or consolidation moves lol

[SkimaskMohawk]

First time I've seen people saying it works outside of the move phase.

 

Let me put it like this. In the last edition, did Skyborne let you move over stuff in the Movement phase, assault phase or during a fallback? Yes. Do you know why it applied to these specific cases and not pile ins or consolidates? Because it specifies the times you get it.

[Panzer]

Well maybe I'll explain it to you properly once I'm back home and on a proper PC in like....12h. Or someone else does it in the meantime. ^^

[McElMcNinja]

It sounds like you are implying that because in the Movement Phase it says you can't move through terrain features like walls, but in the Charge Phase it doesn't, that you can when you charge?

[SkimaskMohawk]

No, that's not what I said, but looking at the rules again after having gotten over the flu I can see that I was half wrong.

 

You can move over/through models when you charge, but that has nothing to do with fly. Fly is still under the moving rules for the Movement phase, the rules of which are never referenced in the charge phase (i.e. move as if the Movement phase). But the rules for not being able to go through models is also in that same subsection; any model regardless of fly or not can melt through intervening models for their charge, pile in and consolidate moves.

[McElMcNinja]

Now there is a rule in the charge phase that says "No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its charge."

So I am curious if they mean stops within 1" or actually comes within 1" during any part of their charge move.

[Panzer]

No, that's not what I said, but looking at the rules again after having gotten over the flu I can see that I was half wrong.

You can move over/through models when you charge, but that has nothing to do with fly. Fly is still under the moving rules for the Movement phase, the rules of which are never referenced in the charge phase (i.e. move as if the Movement phase). But the rules for not being able to go through models is also in that same subsection; any model regardless of fly or not can melt through intervening models for their charge, pile in and consolidate moves.

That's not how the rules work...

[SkimaskMohawk]

It means you you can't be in that 1" area at any point since it doesn't say "end your move within 1"

 

That being said you could still declare a charge against the screening unit to circumvent that. With a high enough roll you can just go through the screening unit and end up on the other side of the actual target, leaving the screening unit unengaged.

[Prot]

Yea, that's how I've always believed it to work, except I personally believed that at any time during the charge if you got within 1" of an opponent, you were stuck in. However, I believe there is nothing mentioning a 'direct route' so as long as your model has the range, you take any viable route towards the close combat. I'm sure if this is wrong someone will correct me. ;)

[Panzer]

Yea, that's how I've always believed it to work, except I personally believed that at any time during the charge if you got within 1" of an opponent, you were stuck in. However, I believe there is nothing mentioning a 'direct route' so as long as your model has the range, you take any viable route towards the close combat. I'm sure if this is wrong someone will correct me.

Yeah you can move however you want around units and terrain as long as you end up within 1" to the charged unit with at least one model.

The automatically getting stuck if you move within 1" of any opponent is not supported by the rules tho.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea it seems wholly...poorly written in terms of everything being able to phase through units on the charge vs normal movement restrictions, but until there's another round of FAQs there no way to tell what the intent is

[Prot]

 

Yea, that's how I've always believed it to work, except I personally believed that at any time during the charge if you got within 1" of an opponent, you were stuck in. However, I believe there is nothing mentioning a 'direct route' so as long as your model has the range, you take any viable route towards the close combat. I'm sure if this is wrong someone will correct me.

Yeah you can move however you want around units and terrain as long as you end up within 1" to the charged unit with at least one model.

The automatically getting stuck if you move within 1" of any opponent is not supported by the rules tho.

 

 

So to be clear I can move within an inch of a model with no intent to engage it in CC? (if so I've been robbing myself of an inch of movement for no reason.... not that it's a huge deal. )

[Panzer]

 

 

Yea, that's how I've always believed it to work, except I personally believed that at any time during the charge if you got within 1" of an opponent, you were stuck in. However, I believe there is nothing mentioning a 'direct route' so as long as your model has the range, you take any viable route towards the close combat. I'm sure if this is wrong someone will correct me. ;)

 

Yeah you can move however you want around units and terrain as long as you end up within 1" to the charged unit with at least one model.

The automatically getting stuck if you move within 1" of any opponent is not supported by the rules tho. :P

 

So to be clear I can move within an inch of a model with no intent to engage it in CC? (if so I've been robbing myself of an inch of movement for no reason.... not that it's a huge deal. )

No you can't move within 1“ of a model you didn't charge. If there's no way you can reach your charge target without violating that rule you simply can't charge and thus don't move.

Treat the 1“ zone around units you didn't charge as impassable terrain. Either you have enough movement range to walk around it or you simply failed the charge. ^^

[SkimaskMohawk]

If you declare multiple targets for one unit youre not forced to engage both. The rules say for charge moves

 

"the first model youve must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the charging unit may move within 1" of a unit that wasn't a target of its charge."

 

Y'all both missed my post where I said you needed to declare a charge against the screening units too to be able to melt through them, but the key is that you need to target them and thus be overwatched some more