Your thoughts on the Primaris and lore progression

[Deschenus Maximus]

A thought just came to my head: I wouldn't mind Primaris so much if they had been made not just Marines + but instead a variant of the Marine that is bigger, tougher and stronger, but also slower... You know, they are new, they have pros, but also cons. They would be meant to supplement rather than supplant "normal" Marines.

[Sete]

Hey Sete they squat also.

But are they being squatted? :P

[Robbienw]

Hey Sete they squat also.

Yeah the squat pose returned with a vengeance with the multi part Primaris kits, no running legs style or deathwatch walking poses. The reivers and the hellblasters are more squat poses than any previous marine save for the RTB01 :lol:

[Claws and Effect]

Hey Sete they squat also.

He looks for all the world like he has gas and is thumping himself in the abdomen to force a fart out.

[Marshal Reinhard]

My main problem with Primaris is their extreme lack of standard guys with (chain)swords. The Intercessors look fine as an upgraded bolter marine, but as a  templar player I can't get into them without squads armed with chain/powerswords as a counterweight to the bolt rifle intercessors as a basic troop. The stealthy skullface guys aren't an alternative either, because they're a very different unit altogether.

 

The effect of this is they just make me fatigued. I'm personally very bothered by the size difference between them and old marines, so i don't want to mix them together (pretty much my problem only and nobody elses), which means that if I were to go the primaris route, I'd go all in. But the new stuff is so lacking in loadout options that the resulting army nowhere near equivalent to what i'd be giving up, and most of the alternatives are so different that I don't care for them or have any history or longstanding affection for them to warrant getting them. So I ignore them and get fatigued by constant Primaris releases (though they've dried up for now it seems)

[Marshal Rohr]

For real. When Reivers came out someone very rudely told another Templar player (Sete Maybe?) they were spoiled because they thought the Reivers don’t fit the Templar theme.

[Trevak Dal]

If Primaris Marines had been featured back in 5th edition when I started, I wouldn't have hated on how 99% of all Space Marines look.

 

I was a huge Halo fan. Primaris Marines are like Spartan IIs. Regardless of anything else-that appeals to me.

 

Now if you could just have a tactical squad of Primaris Marines with special and heavy weapons that could ride in normal vehicles, I'd start collecting them, probably paint them as either Crimson Fists (led by Captain Cortez) or Ultramarines (Led by Captain Titus).

 

I love how the Primaris intecessors-the tactical replacement guys-look. THAT is how I envisioned a Space Marine, not some guy with stupid big pauldrons and a beaked helmet or with horns or skulls everywhere.

 

I should also mention I'm not a fan of John "Scribbles" Blanche at all.

 

If I could trade my betrayal at calth boxes 1:1 for Primaris guys (except the metapod armored guys...the flying ones aren't so bad with the heavy Bolter....smgs?) I'd do it. I'd proxy them as normal marines, but they just look...awesome.

 

I got the same feeling the first time I saw Grey Knights with how their wrist mounted guns allowed them to wield their weapons in two hands for better control. I loved it (and still do).

[Schlitzaf]

Rohr you just reminded me of something, I find infuriating. Leaving the issue of Chainswords (or lack thereof) aside, something as a fan of this game 12 Years, I see folks bemoaning the “it’s not 40k, new kids, the game is worse it’s been sense I started. Old GW/40k Rules”.

 

In the army list section a couple weeks ago someone posted a Black Templar List running Primaris. Another brother without bothering to critique his list simply posted, “Its not a real Black Templar army if you include Primaris, Devestator, Sterngaurd etc”.

 

While some elements of the list I understand (through ironically I’ve this elsewhere but Company Veterans are closest to the actual BT SB Unit over Vang/Stern, which one of the units he listed Company Veterans hilarious). But what bothered me, if folks including Primaris suddenly aren’t 40k Fans?

 

We are all here for one reason or another, all find our own reasons to enjoy the lore. Over the decade I played this game, my core army from 4th-5th Edition has never changed. I haven’t even bought any new kits until 8th. I got a couple one offs, for conversions but I haven’t bought a new kit until Primaris dropped, why?

 

I play Assualt Black Tide with focus on Crusader Squad. About the only unit I did want I never got (a Biker version of Crusaders), and unlikely to ever get now.

 

Centurions? Too Bulky, don’t fit my theme as an aggressive assault force, sense they are slow pondering siege units. I’d leave them behind as I moved forward.

 

Storm Ravens? Pure Infantry. Ravens and other flies are units for surgical and precision strikes.

 

Terminators? Beside the standard ones which I owned. They were too expensive money wise, I dislike their look. Of holding claw to side and just doing a Bolter in a Hold-em style.

 

Contemptor Dreadnought? See Raven. More relavently related to alternative terminators and Dreadnought. My Crusade is supposed to lacking in equipment. Having Ancient Heresy tech would go thematically against me. And in general I had no interest in the Horus Heresy. Sense unlike other marine players I couldn’t adapt my army (based on the Crusader Squad).

 

In comes Primaris. Intercessors, are basically generic Marines. Basic ‘Line Men’ and while in ways they clash with my Crusader Squads. They also work sense aethestically my army had the appearance of ad hoc given Crusader Squad nature. Primaris normally standing taller and broader than Marines actually made them fit what in with my army. Intercessors finally gave me a new unit and models to use.

 

Reivars which replaced my Terminators allowed me to fill a niche that was lacking, and insertion unit for cheap that had durability. Assault Marines when I could only get 6 Men for 100 Points just had no durability.

 

Reivars deep striking 10 wounds for 100! And put out an appreciable Numbers of attacks. Awesome. And look different than my Crusaders and Intercessors further highlighting an ad hoc band of brothers feel.

 

Flavor aside (which I enjoy, because it’s a cool commentary on the actual game imho), Primaris are finally something new and different. Like I haven’t ever felt a desire to reinvent or try new setups until Primaris for my Marines. Instead during 6th (before I stopped playing after Marine Codex dropped until I came back in late 7th and Castallen Detachment, is when I really started to play again. Before I did LoTR stuff or just kinda stop going to my LGS. Bretonnia going Dodo didn’t help either) I worked and finalized my Gaurdsman Army with my Vostroyan. During 5th after I basically settled on my build I further worked on my inquisition. 7th I basically left the hobby (40k wise). Admech caught my eye, but I couldn’t use with my Marines, so I never bothered with them.

 

But suddenly because, I finally got toys and more to play with? Something I could finally experiment and have fun. I am a ‘bad’ fan or a ‘fake’ fan? Like I understand disliking Primaris but too often I am finding fans being “Well your wrong to like them”. If they just been true scaled Marines, I wouldn’t have cared. I cared because my army finally got something new to play with. I got something felt fit my flavor (my entire flavor during post 5th for army the constant fighting left my Crusade utterly decimated), with Primaris Reinforcements.

 

That is my horse that I ride on. But I get disliking the new lore, but there are some of us here whom genuine just like Primaris. Whom it doesn’t ruin 40k for them. And aren’t just here because we are enthralled by named characters. Or the “Comic Book” story. /PardonRant

[Tamiel]

Aside from Custodes and Grey Knigths (which are both rare in numbers), the Space Marine was the icon of the Imperium's elite military. They're not the "Emperor's finest" anymore, they're now the "Emperor's pretty okay".

This is what makes the Primaris such an awkward inclusion to the 40k lore. If they were far rarer than normal marines (and their points values and stats made them elite choices meant to compliment an army, rather than form one by themselves), then that would have made things smoother. But as it stands in the lore, the Primaris are better than the old marines in every way, including producability. It's likely that the game rules will follow suit. Old marines are basically second best, and the iconic Space Marine is no longer the main super soldier of mankind. No one asked for this.

GW could have made:

• Slightly larger marines that appraoched true-scale over time (like their Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard models)
• New Chaos models for regular Chaos
• New Xenos models
• New plastic sisters
• Or hell, maybe even new Marine units without invalidating normal marines

 

But they made a decision that has split the community pretty hard. As a new marine player myself, I even find myself torn: if I buy Primaris, my old marines feel invalidated. If I don't buy Primaris, I feel left behind by this lore that isn't appealing to me or making sense.

A lot of people are defending GW, and that's alright. But you have to realize that, even though people were sick of marines getting new stuff, even though a lot of fans wanted new models for other armies, GW not only chose to release yet more marine stuff, but they released a new marine army that put existing marine armies in a very awkward spot. It's no surprise that the community is so divided over this.

[Red_Shift]

I like the primaris. I was getting a bit bored of marine releases being variations on the same core concepts from second edition. The fluff could have been better done but I don't mind the idea that somewhere in the imperium steps were taken to fight back and refresh the armies of the emperor.

 

Now I'd like a pivot to the xenos. The imperium responding with new primaris units to xenos invasions (with chainsword!) and some New xenos units for them to face. I also think it's a smart business move. You make plastic aspect warriors and older players may stick to their old ones and new players not be swayed. An entirely new unified aeldari faction though is a different matter.

[Marshal Rohr]

Rohr you just reminded me of something, I find infuriating. Leaving the issue of Chainswords (or lack thereof) aside, something as a fan of this game 12 Years, I see folks bemoaning the “it’s not 40k, new kids, the game is worse it’s been sense I started. Old GW/40k Rules”.

 

In the army list section a couple weeks ago someone posted a Black Templar List running Primaris. Another brother without bothering to critique his list simply posted, “Its not a real Black Templar army if you include Primaris, Devestator, Sterngaurd etc”.

 

While some elements of the list I understand (through ironically I’ve this elsewhere but Company Veterans are closest to the actual BT SB Unit over Vang/Stern, which one of the units he listed Company Veterans hilarious). But what bothered me, if folks including Primaris suddenly aren’t 40k Fans?

 

We are all here for one reason or another, all find our own reasons to enjoy the lore. Over the decade I played this game, my core army from 4th-5th Edition has never changed. I haven’t even bought any new kits until 8th. I got a couple one offs, for conversions but I haven’t bought a new kit until Primaris dropped, why?

 

I play Assualt Black Tide with focus on Crusader Squad. About the only unit I did want I never got (a Biker version of Crusaders), and unlikely to ever get now.

 

Centurions? Too Bulky, don’t fit my theme as an aggressive assault force, sense they are slow pondering siege units. I’d leave them behind as I moved forward.

 

Storm Ravens? Pure Infantry. Ravens and other flies are units for surgical and precision strikes.

 

Terminators? Beside the standard ones which I owned. They were too expensive money wise, I dislike their look. Of holding claw to side and just doing a Bolter in a Hold-em style.

 

Contemptor Dreadnought? See Raven. More relavently related to alternative terminators and Dreadnought. My Crusade is supposed to lacking in equipment. Having Ancient Heresy tech would go thematically against me. And in general I had no interest in the Horus Heresy. Sense unlike other marine players I couldn’t adapt my army (based on the Crusader Squad).

 

In comes Primaris. Intercessors, are basically generic Marines. Basic ‘Line Men’ and while in ways they clash with my Crusader Squads. They also work sense aethestically my army had the appearance of ad hoc given Crusader Squad nature. Primaris normally standing taller and broader than Marines actually made them fit what in with my army. Intercessors finally gave me a new unit and models to use.

 

Reivars which replaced my Terminators allowed me to fill a niche that was lacking, and insertion unit for cheap that had durability. Assault Marines when I could only get 6 Men for 100 Points just had no durability.

 

Reivars deep striking 10 wounds for 100! And put out an appreciable Numbers of attacks. Awesome. And look different than my Crusaders and Intercessors further highlighting an ad hoc band of brothers feel.

 

Flavor aside (which I enjoy, because it’s a cool commentary on the actual game imho), Primaris are finally something new and different. Like I haven’t ever felt a desire to reinvent or try new setups until Primaris for my Marines. Instead during 6th (before I stopped playing after Marine Codex dropped until I came back in late 7th and Castallen Detachment, is when I really started to play again. Before I did LoTR stuff or just kinda stop going to my LGS. Bretonnia going Dodo didn’t help either) I worked and finalized my Gaurdsman Army with my Vostroyan. During 5th after I basically settled on my build I further worked on my inquisition. 7th I basically left the hobby (40k wise). Admech caught my eye, but I couldn’t use with my Marines, so I never bothered with them.

 

But suddenly because, I finally got toys and more to play with? Something I could finally experiment and have fun. I am a ‘bad’ fan or a ‘fake’ fan? Like I understand disliking Primaris but too often I am finding fans being “Well your wrong to like them”. If they just been true scaled Marines, I wouldn’t have cared. I cared because my army finally got something new to play with. I got something felt fit my flavor (my entire flavor during post 5th for army the constant fighting left my Crusade utterly decimated), with Primaris Reinforcements.

 

That is my horse that I ride on. But I get disliking the new lore, but there are some of us here whom genuine just like Primaris. Whom it doesn’t ruin 40k for them. And aren’t just here because we are enthralled by named characters. Or the “Comic Book” story. /PardonRant

I’m currently building an all Primaris Templar army and have seen a few ‘no crusaders, no templars’ posts.

[Schlitzaf]

(Going to admit I have said that on a few threads. But that is mostly because Primaris mechanically gain little from being BT (if pure and no characters). Better off doing (Non-BT chapter) with BT Chapter Tactics for access to Librarians. The other reason being our relic is awesome)).

 

But that aside, I have seen more than few posts basically arguing that. And trying to claim “BT never accept/use Primaris”.

[Firepower]

I do that, but to be fair, with tongue deeply dug into cheek :P

 

As for whether the Templars accept Primaris...well, in the book, they do.  So it's canon.  But to me, no, it makes no sense, and I don't intend to have Primaris Templars.  I must emphasize the words, "to me."  I don't much care what people take.  Beyond a bit of old fart teasing. :teehee:

 

And behold, yet another thread becomes hijacked by Templar talk 

[Beta galactosidase]

John Blanche is an important part of GW, as is Jes Goodwin, and all the old timers who have been around since we were picking up White Dwarf's in the early 90s blah blah blah. Here's the reality: These people are still employed by a company that needs to make money. Without cash flow and profit, it physically can't develop the universe that you love to hate.

 

Yes people do need to make a living off of what they do all day for work.  That is pointing to a very definite difference between old and new 40k. The old devs were making a game, make art, make models, make it all really popular and make a living off of it.  When you bought GW stuff, you were giving money to, game devs.  This wasn't a business plan invented by someone out to woo investors with a good elevator pitch and make a mint.  They published Metal albums, like not "warhammer brand music," they published Saxon. The staff and owners were in a scene and they wanted to live a certain lifestyle, to indulge their interests and use their skills in a way that also supported them.  Well, mainly you were giving money to those game devs who owned the company, Bryan Ansell. 

 

It is actually possible to find Rick Priestly saying he doesn't really like it when people talk to him about warhammer, and how successful 40k and how proud he must be, because he wasn't an owner of the company or the IP, and it bothers him because he would like to feed his family and pay their mortgage.  At the time, it helped him pay rent and have a more rewarding job than digging ditches, but the rented apartment and the job aren't his anymore.

 

Now you're giving money to people who aren't artists or game devs, and don't work on the games.  You're giving it to finance bros, who are taking it on behalf of people who don't even work at all.  And this correlates to the complaints people have about profit driving releases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

add:

 

GW could have made:

• Slightly larger marines that appraoched true-scale over time (like their Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard models)
• New Chaos models for regular Chaos
• New Xenos models
• New plastic sisters
• Or hell, maybe even new Marine units without invalidating normal marines

 

 

Nah, they couldn't have.  If you ask someone for money to buy new CAD suites and tooling machines, you need to max your revenue.  Primaris were the decision to make when you are running a public company. 

[deathspectersgt7]

Cad and tools already bought and paid for. They just thought Primaris was a way to go and here we are Still say Sons of Anteaus were Primaris Marines that went out for a trial run .

[MosesGunn]

I definitely took a break from the hobby due to the drop of 8th and the release of Primaris. Combined with the Marine fatigue of yet another power armored release (in contrast the last release I went out and bought on a whim immediately were the Genestealer Cults), it was just kind of demoralising to realise that GW was looking to take the Marine brand in a whole new direction from the range currently sitting in my cabinets. I'm a notoriously slow builder and I kind of didn't want to continue to spend more cash on a bunch of shiny new toys after investing a decent wad of cash on plastic which at least 50% is still unassembled. 

 

Over the last two months I have begun to get the enthusiasm back as I'm treating the Primaris as a sort of timebomb, I've only got a maybe a few years to finish and paint my armies before they look absolutely tiny once they inevitably expand the line (look at the constant stream of Stormcast Models that Sigmar continues to get, it never ends). As a public company, GW will always look the expand their profits and clearly the Marine line is their holy cow, having milked that for all that it was worth with the standard line its pretty obvious that the Primaris is their strategy to continue that financially.

 

The lacklustre lore kind also adds to sensation that its a mostly financial decision. The Iphone 8 of Marines haha. I do aesthetically like some of the designs (think they should have maintained Mark VII helmets, but do like the basic infantry look and characters a lot) and am somewhat glad for the truescale, but yeah it just feels like a very pointed long term decision on the part of sustaining their business rather than anything organically created. The Primarchs could have still all returned moving the storyline along without the need for Primaris and I think that's why they feel like a rather jarring fit in the setting.

 

Weirdly, while I have little to no inclination to play 8th currently, I'm not that critical of GWs decision to change 40k up as they are actually offering far more attractive options for me in their product range such as Blood Bowl and Necromunda. As long as they keep on supporting more than just the single product line and system as what happened to them and 40k around 6th and 7th, I'll still be a hobbyist and be invested in their projects, but not as much as I was in the over arching setting of the 41st (or is it 42nd now?) millenium.

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello all, I am thinking as I type this post.

 

The Primaris, regardless of the reasoning on GW's part as to their introduction, are a band-aid fix to a much larger problem: Astartes of all flavors, outside of said Primaris, are too expensive for what they deliver, thanks to their points per model ratio.

 

Primaris are bigger, better, and more badass; okay, so, typing that, why are there ever going to be regular Astartes again, after enough Primaris are made? Fixing the Astartes statline would have done far more; the problem is GW is so afraid of the SM Movie Marines scenario in WH40K that they won't let any form of Astartes become a viable tabletop army.

 

I also agree with other posters noting that, thanks to Primaris, there's virtually no reason from now on for there to ever be normal Space Marines from now on, unless it remains as expensive as it is now to continue to make a Primaris, points wise.

 

So, to put it simply, this is a band-aid fix to the Astartes line, and soon, most likely, to the Chaos Astartes lines as well.

 

This could have been handled far better; the premise that the Finest Humanity has ever had to offer can just one day be outdone because reasons that were never truly well hinted at, is what I think is the most jarring part of the way the Primaris fluff has been handled. Put another way, Primaris could have been hinted at, if they even were, it was done poorly, and there's no going back now.

 

I really like the premise of Primaris, however, with so many points of already existing models, there seems to be no reason whatsoever now to realistically invest in new non-Primaris Astartes, from this point forward. I see little reason to continue at times, and at others, I would like to see what options the Wolves get for Primaris once our Codex is out in May.

[Tamiel]

 

 

add:

 

GW could have made:

• Slightly larger marines that appraoched true-scale over time (like their Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard models)
• New Chaos models for regular Chaos
• New Xenos models
• New plastic sisters
• Or hell, maybe even new Marine units without invalidating normal marines

 

 

Nah, they couldn't have.  If you ask someone for money to buy new CAD suites and tooling machines, you need to max your revenue.  Primaris were the decision to make when you are running a public company. 

 

Yeah, they should maximize profits.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

John Blanche is an important part of GW, as is Jes Goodwin, and all the old timers who have been around since we were picking up White Dwarf's in the early 90s blah blah blah. Here's the reality: These people are still employed by a company that needs to make money. Without cash flow and profit, it physically can't develop the universe that you love to hate.

I think it's notable that while some are willing to defend or make apologetics for GW's decisions from a financial or logistical point of view, no one's even bothering to mount a qualitative defense of the Primaris Marines and the Dark Imperium setting.

 

What more needs to be said about it?

 

 

I disagree. There have been a few people around in this thread and elsewhere, posting that they enjoy the new setting, how it feels that the Imperium had actually been put on the back foot, that the Imperium had nearly fallen, and was only saved by the return of a figure from legend. The Primaris Marines themselves can be seen as a culmination of hints of the failed Foundings (nothing says Cawl had the Primaris perfected 10,000 years ago, merely that that's when he began the project), and that despite the rhetoric from fans, progress does indeed occur in the Imperium, as shown by several of the Leman Russ variants and other vehicles, that are explicitly mentioned as having been developed on particular Forge Worlds.

 

This isn't to defend the quality of writing in the Gathering Storm books, gods no. They're a fan-fiction-quality attempt to recreate what they did with the End Times books in Fantasy, which were far better written. For some reason they wanted these books condensed down to barely anything, and they suffered incredibly for it.

[Beta galactosidase]

 

add:

 

GW could have made:

• Slightly larger marines that appraoched true-scale over time (like their Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard models)
• New Chaos models for regular Chaos
• New Xenos models
• New plastic sisters
• Or hell, maybe even new Marine units without invalidating normal marines

 

Nah, they couldn't have.  If you ask someone for money to buy new CAD suites and tooling machines, you need to max your revenue.  Primaris were the decision to make when you are running a public company.

 

Yeah, they should maximize profits.

 

well, no, they shouldn't. They just have to. It is clearly makes a fair number of people alienated from what is originally a really stimulating set of artwork and games. They have to max profits, because they are a publicly traded for-profit company. All the employees making work for Citadel/Bryan Ansell who then sold that work to Tom Kirby who sold the revenue to equity and finance markets really distorts the results both for the people making it, and the people using it.

[Marshal Rohr]

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

 

Don’t participate in any studio designer or black library author’s fantasy Primaris have always been there. They haven’t.

[Dagoth Ur]

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

 

Your proof for this? Not saying that all those informations and background snippets absolutely were always meant as hints, matter of fact I believe that it is just a "happy accident", if you will, that one can see it that way. What's wrong with people deciding to see it this way or the other, considering that we do not have definitive proof of anything? I thought ambiguity was something many people were clamouring for.

 

Just because things were not intended to be looked at one way as they were invented, doesn't mean that things cannot retroactively fit by design or accident alike.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

 

Don’t participate in any studio designer or black library author’s fantasy Primaris have always been there. They haven’t.

While I am not going to say Primaris is a complete retcon of the lore we have known for the last 30 years (and GW had retconned A LOT OF THEIR LORE, especially from 1st and 2nd edition), the basis for all these primaris has been there. What do you think the inquisition and mechanicus has been doing with all the geneseed all the millenia? If the creation and maintaining of Geneseed from all the chapters is so incredibly important and precious, you know the inquisition doesn't just send the geneseed back to the chapter. After 10 millennia of getting geneseed from chapters, and using some of it for foundings (of which nowhere near enough of the geneseed is getting used thats being sent). We also know that there was some fishy stuff going on with the cursed founding, of which a lot of theories speculate that a lot of the work in testing out the possible creation of Primaris happened as a test run.

 

So its not like Primaris didn't come from absolutely nowhere (like pandaran's just showing up in World of Warcraft), there was stuff in the lore that you could make the case alluded to the creation of Primaris Marines. I certainly wouldn't say thats what GW had in mind in the first place when they introduced Geneseed Tithes from chapters, the cursed founding, STC equipment coming back in faster rates (fire raptor, contemptors, sicarans, etc) Gravity weapons and the like. It was inevitable that change was coming, they have been putting out more and more about more of the technology from the dark age making a come-back.

 

But lets be real here, no matter what lore I throw out, you are going to ignore and just be angry at GW for changing what you loved. Get over it and get over yourself. In the end GW is going to keep coming out with more for you to buy, more books for you to read and more changes to the universe. If you dont like it, get out of the hobby. If you aren't interested in what the 40k universe has to offer, you arent going to be happy with it. Go take your 'member berries and be sour elsewhere. You aren't required to use or play with primaris. So either accept that 40k is allowed to change, or that you refuse to change.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

Your proof for this? Not saying that all those informations and background snippets absolutely were always meant as hints, matter of fact I believe that it is just a "happy accident", if you will, that one can see it that way. What's wrong with people deciding to see it this way or the other, considering that we do not have definitive proof of anything? I thought ambiguity was something many people were clamouring for.

 

Just because things were not intended to be looked at one way as they were invented, doesn't mean that things cannot retroactively fit by design or accident alike.

Literally said that in my post.

 

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

 

Don’t participate in any studio designer or black library author’s fantasy Primaris have always been there. They haven’t.

While I am not going to say Primaris is a complete retcon of the lore we have known for the last 30 years (and GW had retconned A LOT OF THEIR LORE, especially from 1st and 2nd edition), the basis for all these primaris has been there. What do you think the inquisition and mechanicus has been doing with all the geneseed all the millenia? If the creation and maintaining of Geneseed from all the chapters is so incredibly important and precious, you know the inquisition doesn't just send the geneseed back to the chapter. After 10 millennia of getting geneseed from chapters, and using some of it for foundings (of which nowhere near enough of the geneseed is getting used thats being sent). We also know that there was some fishy stuff going on with the cursed founding, of which a lot of theories speculate that a lot of the work in testing out the possible creation of Primaris happened as a test run.

 

So its not like Primaris didn't come from absolutely nowhere (like pandaran's just showing up in World of Warcraft), there was stuff in the lore that you could make the case alluded to the creation of Primaris Marines. I certainly wouldn't say thats what GW had in mind in the first place when they introduced Geneseed Tithes from chapters, the cursed founding, STC equipment coming back in faster rates (fire raptor, contemptors, sicarans, etc) Gravity weapons and the like. It was inevitable that change was coming, they have been putting out more and more about more of the technology from the dark age making a come-back.

 

But lets be real here, no matter what lore I throw out, you are going to ignore and just be angry at GW for changing what you loved. Get over it and get over yourself. In the end GW is going to keep coming out with more for you to buy, more books for you to read and more changes to the universe. If you dont like it, get out of the hobby. If you aren't interested in what the 40k universe has to offer, you arent going to be happy with it. Go take your 'member berries and be sour elsewhere. You aren't required to use or play with primaris. So either accept that 40k is allowed to change, or that you refuse to change.

‘If you don’t like it, leave’ is an intellectually bankrupt argument.

 

I do like it. No one here doesn’t like it. I’m here because I enjoy it. I hate anime. That’s why I’m not on any anime forums. I don’t play XWing. I’m not on any XWing forums.

 

Finally, you’re not the arbiter of who can express what opinion. So if you don’t like what I have to say, back off and keep scrolling. You don’t get to make any rules.

[Dagoth Ur]

 

 

Primaris Marines are 100% not in any way hidden in the lore and we just didn’t notice. That is not true. People saying that as like a retroactive bolt on to fit them into the setting, sure whatever. But to suggest this has been part of some kind of big plan is wrong.

Your proof for this? Not saying that all those informations and background snippets absolutely were always meant as hints, matter of fact I believe that it is just a "happy accident", if you will, that one can see it that way. What's wrong with people deciding to see it this way or the other, considering that we do not have definitive proof of anything? I thought ambiguity was something many people were clamouring for.

 

Just because things were not intended to be looked at one way as they were invented, doesn't mean that things cannot retroactively fit by design or accident alike.

Literally said that in my post.

 

No, what you insinuated in your post is that it must be a retroactive bolt-on, and that any idea of there perhaps being some actual, intentional foreshadowing must be wrong; note, I am agreeing with you that it probably is a retroactive thing, but I do not asume the authority to actually know or have any form of proof that would validate any adamancy about such a statement being objective. I am questioning this very adamancy and would like to see some stone-cold proof for it, as otherwise this strikes me as prescriptivism of opinions, not facts. I am not questioning the thing you express, but the veracity you attribute to it and the callous way you place your own truth above others in this situation.

 

So no, what I responded to you is not what you wrote in your post, or at least the use of the two phrases I have boldened and underlined in the above quote do not give the impression of this. I could have phrased myself a bit better, my apologies.