Your thoughts on the Primaris and lore progression

[Bryan Blaire]

FB, all I can say is I hope you don't let the newest stuff destroy twenty-something years of enjoyment—it isn't right to give a company that much influence over your enjoyment. Just keep to what you enjoyed the most, and for all of our arguments, I know that you thoroughly enjoyed and were immersed in the DA lore DEEP, and in a large way for other material for 40K. I very much look at 8th edition as a dividing line for me - before it was 40K, after it is 41K (no matter what is said about the Chronostrife and not knowing exactly what year it really is (and how much fun it is in my mind as a setting concept), Dark Imperium is not 40K to me.

 

As far as the Primaris themselves, I just really, really wish their lore had been done better, period. The lore and the separated rules just don't work for me. The models are pretty nice, although they have some really bad things IMO as well. I would have been so much more happy with them as straight-up new scale minis for Marines, or something built toward with the Emperor's actual intervention.

[Marshal Rohr]

When the articles in question were written (dark founding/cursed founding) It was the early 2000’s. So it’s definitely not possible those articles written for White Dwarf were intended to foreshadow Belisarius Cawl and Primaris Space Marines, which were created at best three or four years ago before production. The very concept art the aggressors and many Primaris are based on was drawn for the 4th edition codex space marines and are called by old marine designations.

[Dagoth Ur]

I cannot possibly agree more with Bryan Blaire here; ultimately we can always try to enjoy the setting in ways we see fit. I like the regular Primaris (The bolter-toting ones, I cannot recall the proper name for the life of me), but I absolutely loathe how all other Primaris figures look like, which is why I have taken to converting and idly ignoring them. Reivers are just regular primaris with Reiver arms and regular SM bolters, Aggressors are regular Primaris but with a few more armour plates and equipped with either heavy flamers of heavy bolters, etc. you get the idea.
 

When the articles in question were written (dark founding/cursed founding) It was the early 2000’s. So it’s definitely not possible those articles written for White Dwarf were intended to foreshadow Belisarius Cawl and Primaris Space Marines, which were created at best three or four years ago before production. The very concept art the aggressors and many Primaris are based on was drawn for the 4th edition codex space marines and are called by old marine designations.

Thank you kindly frater, that's all I wanted to know

[chamberlainskeksil]

Pretty much the most vacuous response possible is "if you don't like it, leave!"  It's just pointless gatekeeping on the conversation.  For what?  So you don't have to read an opinion you disagree with?

 

What I like about Primaris:

 

• They strike me as what marines always should have always been.  Especially in model terms.  I'm a true scale converter so they are right up my alley in that regard. 
• Extra attack and wound actually makes them feel like space marines in the new 40k game.
• Simple -1 AP on bolt rifles means you actually get the moments in the novels where marines kill marines with a bolt shell a lot more.  I feel the same way about how the rules work with hellguns and special issue bolters that sternguard have.
• Gravis armour when it stays on the ground.  I really like the captain model and I also like the aggressors.
• The shaking out effect for a particular couple of local gamers.  They'd go to new player events and then brag about how they beat someone so badly they made them quit the hobby.  They got so mad about new primaris marines that they sold their armies and now only play Infinity.  And I'm like "YES!!"

 

What I don't like: 

• Inceptor gun shields and the posing of the legs.  And how easily people are finding the bases snap.
• No weapon variation within squads.  I just happen to prefer the tactical-assault-devastator type arrangement.
• Arbitrary rules about transports not being able to have primaris marines.  A land raider can be made to fit Custodes but Primaris?  Nope.  This was immediately house ruled in our group.  2:1 primaris:non primaris, use whatever transport you want
• No weapon variations on characters.  People love making "their guy" and having no options for weapons to come up with a load out you had some input on means a lot of people can't make "their guy" with primaris marines.
• The 10,000 year old project thing.
• The overloading of weapons on the new vehicles.  It's a bit much.
• Any quality player that's fun to play against, paints their models and generally contributed to a positive hobby community that leaves or might leave as a result.  I would much prefer it if only awful people quit as a result of Primaris marines.

[Lord_Caerolion]

When the articles in question were written (dark founding/cursed founding) It was the early 2000’s. So it’s definitely not possible those articles written for White Dwarf were intended to foreshadow Belisarius Cawl and Primaris Space Marines, which were created at best three or four years ago before production. The very concept art the aggressors and many Primaris are based on was drawn for the 4th edition codex space marines and are called by old marine designations.

 

Many things are built off plot seeds that have sat in the fluff for ages before anyone does anything with it. I've never seen anyone stating that the people who wrote the original pieces about the Dark Founding/Cursed Founding were thinking "this will perfectly set up for when we release a brand new sort of Space Marine in a decade or so"? I'm just saying that, personally, it fits together well that that's one of the experiments that Cawl has been running during the Primaris Project, and that it is entirely possible that the designers saw these same plot seeds when planning the Primaris and thought "maybe we can work with this".

[Firepower]

FB, all I can say is I hope you don't let the newest stuff destroy twenty-something years of enjoyment—it isn't right to give a company that much influence over your enjoyment. Just keep to what you enjoyed the most, and for all of our arguments, I know that you thoroughly enjoyed and were immersed in the DA lore DEEP, and in a large way for other material for 40K. I very much look at 8th edition as a dividing line for me - before it was 40K, after it is 41K (no matter what is said about the Chronostrife and not knowing exactly what year it really is (and how much fun it is in my mind as a setting concept), Dark Imperium is not 40K to me.

 

As far as the Primaris themselves, I just really, really wish their lore had been done better, period. The lore and the separated rules just don't work for me. The models are pretty nice, although they have some really bad things IMO as well. I would have been so much more happy with them as straight-up new scale minis for Marines, or something built toward with the Emperor's actual intervention.

 

I'm out of likes for the day, but this is dead on the nose. :tu:

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Many things are built off plot seeds that have sat in the fluff for ages before anyone does anything with it. I've never seen anyone stating that the people who wrote the original pieces about the Dark Founding/Cursed Founding were thinking "this will perfectly set up for when we release a brand new sort of Space Marine in a decade or so"? I'm just saying that, personally, it fits together well that that's one of the experiments that Cawl has been running during the Primaris Project, and that it is entirely possible that the designers saw these same plot seeds when planning the Primaris and thought "maybe we can work with this".

 

 

See, if they had done this, then the Primaris would probably have gotten a better reception (by at least some fans 'can't please all the people all time' and all). But, as far as I'm aware, the writers didn't. Seeding Cawl into established events, like the Cursed Founding, with the implication that he was part of a team (thus reducing the distaste for the way Cawl does absolutely everything in 'new 40k', genetics, engineering, xenobiology, everything) would indeed make the Primaris seem a least slightly less tacked on and a 'real world imposition' on the fluff. So yes, there are ways to help justify the Primaris in 40k, but that's headcannon/fanon at best, because the official line is 'super genius Cawl in a basement for 10k years'.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

When the articles in question were written (dark founding/cursed founding) It was the early 2000’s. So it’s definitely not possible those articles written for White Dwarf were intended to foreshadow Belisarius Cawl and Primaris Space Marines, which were created at best three or four years ago before production. The very concept art the aggressors and many Primaris are based on was drawn for the 4th edition codex space marines and are called by old marine designations.

Many things are built off plot seeds that have sat in the fluff for ages before anyone does anything with it. I've never seen anyone stating that the people who wrote the original pieces about the Dark Founding/Cursed Founding were thinking "this will perfectly set up for when we release a brand new sort of Space Marine in a decade or so"? I'm just saying that, personally, it fits together well that that's one of the experiments that Cawl has been running during the Primaris Project, and that it is entirely possible that the designers saw these same plot seeds when planning the Primaris and thought "maybe we can work with this".

Sure. 40k is filled with gaps to fill in if you need. Nothing wrong with that. I acknowledged that in my post. My original point was that outside of the universe, we know Primaris didn’t exist. The Emperor not giving a crap about the Primarchs and Legions might be something that was there we didn’t see, but not Primaris.

[Theradrussian]

Truth be told, I headcanon'd it all to make sense. As I roll alpha legion in 30k, I like to think of my Primaris in 40k as being a *totally not Alpha Legion trickery project* that is either deep infiltration to get tech and access to the heart of an Imperium too busy fighting for survival to clean house, or as a means of showing that even the AL itself can't quite agree on whether we want the Imperium and Emps fully dead or not :P

But I can totally see both sides here, and have halted much of my non-30k purchasing as I wait for the dust to settle.

[Ishagu]

It's not all doom and gloom. Some of us are happy. Very Happy (Judgind by GW's growth the vast majority of us are happy but that's a different topic entirely)!

 

I've been a fan of Warhammer for the majority of my life. I stumbled into a Games Workshop when I was very young and was smitten when I saw the intricate figurines and was even more amazed when I learned that there was a game to go with them!

Over the years I have learned much of the lore, and read many novels on top. I've learned to paint to a decent standard and have experience in building even the more tricky of Forgeworld resin kits. I've dabbled in the Horus Heresy, casual play and even tried my hand at tournament gaming. In truth I'm lucky to be a part of a vibrant and active community, both locally and online. In effect, I'm happy to say I've experienced all aspects of the hobby.

 

All throughout my hobby life I have felt that the lore enriches the experience, but over the years the setting started to grow stale. Nothing changed, the status quo remained the same. A thousand worlds could fall and it would have no impact on the galaxy. The Eldar were slowly dying, the Imperium was chugging along , Chaos were black crusading and doing nothing, etc etc. Warhammer 40k wasn't a story - it was simply a setting creating the illusion of one.

 

Enter the Gathering Storm. The clock begins to move forward. The setting is transformed into an actual story with room to grow and develop.

After 20 years of reading about last stands, Pyrrhic victories and decay it became a bit too much. It was boring. I chose the Ultramarines as my main faction because they are paragons of reason and logic as much as war and conquest. It felt as if the whole Imperium was ruled by Nurgle - sheer decay ad stagnation in un-realistic and sometimes nonsensical proportions. Apparently the Imperium can create and maintain vaults that literally freeze time but can't repair a mechanical, kinetic rife? There are points where it no longer quite makes since.

 

The Horus Heresy introduced me to a different version of the hobby I like. The war, strife and conquest was all there, but so was progress and innovation. It was a setting of interesting science and technology and a great variate of units that I really appreciate. I LOVE the religious and social regression of the Imperium Warhammer 40k, this is something much more interesting than the age of Conquest in 30k, but the technological regression is damaging to the hobby because it limits potential new releases, models, characters and stories. How can you have an evolving game if no vehicle or infantry kits for the main faction can be introduced without retconning the existing lore? It's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The marine range is complete, there's no real room for growth with bloated model lines like 4 different Terminator Kits. Also a lot of the vehicles are showing their age. The Rhino chassis was looking ugly and small compared to the more detailed Xenos and Astra Militarum kits. In an attempt to keep the Marine range somewhat consistent the actual Marines themselves were quite small - even the more recent kits are barely larger than Guardsmen.

This is where the Primaris come in. No longer limited by some technological regression in the lore - new kits and units can be invented and introduced without limitation. The models themselves are exceptional and they LOOK like how Marines are supposed to when standing next to Guardsmen. Finally Marines are starting to feel unique amongst Imperial faction with their own line of technology and hover tanks. I can't wait to see what new models are coming in the future.

 

And now, thankfully, the lore has weight. Some people don't like change, which is fine, but for the first time in 20 years of being in this hobby events actually alter the universe. The Imperium is split, technology has progressed, new alliances have been struck and heroes of legend are once again rising up to involve themselves in the universe. This is exciting and change will be good in the long run.

Some people are saying that the quality of the lore has dropped, but this isn't really the case. The quality of the writing in some of the most recent campaign books is up for debate, but the actual story is on the same level and the general fiction has always been. As I point out, this is the universe of space magic, soccer hooligans and a god of sex, but apparently a tech-priest who can build better rifles is too much for some to swallow, even though he's fully justified because he comes from a time when the Mechanicum DID innovate.

 

Let's enjoy the show, the models and the game. It was time for change. I'm not interested in "Warhammer Age of Nurgle: Everything is in Decay"

GW is going from Strength to Strength, and now with Custodes getting a codex it's really looking good!

 

 

Edit: Typos

[BitsHammer]

I gushed a lot yesterday (and then had to go to work so really couldn't follow up in this thread) but since I've had time to stop gushing and read the rest of the thread since then I'm going to chime in before I have to go to work today:

 

First up, I've never understood how with a game that basically constantly says "make your own fluff" we have a regular line in the sand contest over the lore. I saw it during 5th edition with Matt Ward codexes, and again in 6th and again in 7th. Basically every time something changes people draw a line in the sand shout "no more" and threaten to quit the hobby. Maybe it's because I have never treated 40k with the devotion some people do but at the end of the day I feel like we often need to take a step back, take a couple of deep breaths and once the shock has worn off see if it's really that bad.

 

I mean if we got a codex that released that said Sisters of Battle were actually accidental psykers who followed living saints who were basically daemon princess of the Emperor I'd be put off at first, but I wouldn't quit the hobby or my army. I'd just take the stuff I like and leave the rest.

 

Now I'm not saying anyone has to like the changes they don't like, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to quit the hobby when there are still other things to enjoy.

 

On a side note, I'm both happy and miffed that there is finally a Marine body large enough to make Silas Alberec of the Exorcists chapter (he's canonically about as tall as an Ogryn when not wearing any armour, and even more massive when he is) but the fact that it took so long (seriously FW, I've been wanting a character model for him for a while now because I'm sure your version would have been better than any version I would have made) to get something to make it work.

 

Regarding Primaris wargear options (like not being able to build Crusader squads) I have a feeling that these will be things addressed in time. Currently the models have just been rolled out, and if GW meets my expectations, in the future we'll be seeing upgrade kits for various additional loadouts/builds for these guys. Currently the Primaris are still being integrated into the Imperium and with that comes a gradual change and new equipment is made for them. So a new Crusader squad kit, more chapter specific stuff rolled out like robes and the like, unique wargear given to different chapters (maybe Space Wolves will see Helfrost make it to the manportable level in the future?), and generally more stuff to fully bling up the Primaris guys. Basically, if GW follows through like I expect, the plainness of the models will actually lend well to making conversion kits work because you won't be dealing with large amounts of iconography that need to be removed to make the base model work.

 

I'm curious how GW will eventually tackle the Grey Knights Primaris issue since only the High Lords and the Primarchs really knew the Grey Knights existed (unless Cawl was left some notes by Guilliman, but even Guilliman wouldn't have had the Grey Knight geneseed sitting around his office), unless it's just the Grey Knights adapting the technology for their own uses. Then again, with the Exorcists being possible successors to the Grey Knights it's not like there isn't Grey Knight geneseed for Cawl to tamper with currently.

 

I will freely admit I'm a little disappointed that we're not seeing more internal strife in the Imperium over the inclusion of the Primaris, even from more insular, or independent chapters, but then again perhaps being in the presence of a Primarch who is wielding the Emperor's personal sword puts down any arguements these chapters would be making. I bet if it was just Cawl running around and dropping off Primaris by himself no one would let him into the system, much less meeting with their Chapter Masters about the new guys he brought along, but with Guilliman in person, I'm guessing it's hard to tell a literal legend "no" when he's looking down at you.

 

I have to say that I rather like the way the Primaris fix some things that bothered me in the fluff too when it comes to chapters who were nearly wiped out but left in a constant state of "rebuilding". It also brings us back to having the ability to have official successors to chapters that don't have any (Space Wolves, Salamanders) who were given rather odd reasons for not having any, especially when some of these things were fixable (like having the successor given the same stuff as the Space Wolves to make the geneseed stable instead of telling the successor "lol, nope" and having to put them down like sick dogs, or just using the geneseed tithe to make a successor for the Salamanders wholesale without using the Salamanders themselves to form the chapter (seriously, what does the Salamander's small chapter size have to do with the High Lord's ability to form a new chapter???)).

 

Basically it's plugging rather annoying plot devices that were being used to prevent official successor chapters and left people going "well, my guys are probably successors of X chapter" without being left the room to say that they're official successors. For a game built around building "my dudes" it was annoying to see avenues to having your dudes be officially anything you wanted when the official route was blocked off.

 

Thinking about fluff, the new bit of regular Space Marines being able to be Primaris, I feel, serves two purposes: prevents the future invalidation of people's collections just because they have the shorter Marines, and allows GW to keep the special characters in existence, but give them new, bigger sculpts in plastic (with a slightly boosted statline to boot).

 

Now I freely admit I dislike that you don't have any real options for Primaris HQs right now. I look forward to the eventual wargear options we all know that are coming, because it's what will really open those guys up for most people. Right now they're very limited in kit and I feel it's largely in part because the studio hasn't fully decided where to take them in terms of options. With them being bigger than your normal guy it's not like normal wargear is an option (can they even fit their armoured fingers into a trigger well on a normal weapon?) so GW is likely working on trying to come up with stuff that is similar to, but not exactly the same as what the regular Marines have and make it work for the new guys.

 

Basically Cawl is going to be busy in the future (assuming we don't see the Marines get creative first like they did when they made other weapon loadouts for the Razorback, or the Land Raider) which will help bridge those gaps between the regular and Primaris options.

 

Heck, we may even eventually see Primaris tactical squads come about (as well as bikes and other things) to help fill in the Primaris options in the future (as well as give some love to old kits who need to updated like the bikes).

 

I'm going to end my little rambling post here: I have a feeling Primaris will be the future of the Space Marines entirely. I don't see this as a shot at the basic Marines, in fact I see it as an improvement of them. Basically ten thousand years of war and testing have shown that in the galaxy the Marines are basically wanting. On the tabletop they're basically lacking as well. Now GW could have released slightly bigger Marine kits to phase out the old ones, but as we've seen comments for, this wouldn't have sold Marines to most people. New units sell kits, not just new kits alone. I mean how many people went and rebuilt their Marine armies when the updated Tactical box dropped? How about when we got MkIII and MkIV in plastic? Not really all that many I'm betting. Likewise, these would have been a flop if they were just a bigger tactical kit (again).

 

Making them something new makes them something people can consider for their army. Do you want Tacticals or Intercessors? How about Hellblasters?

 

The same goes for making these into new units instead of just buffing the basic Marine statline. It addresses the problem we've been struggling with for a while now when it comes to how lackluster Marines are on the table while allowing the company to bring us something that will sell the game to newer players while encouraging existing players to update their stagnating collections. Yes, it is putting some people off, but honestly if it does, you were never going to be the target audience for it. I'm sure they know they won't sell to you either and while it's unfortunate, the only way we were going to see a shift in a deeply entrenched faction's core design was through something like this. And I'm not trying to brush anyone aside here, but GW was never going to take the time to do this without ensuring they could make money off the idea. They're a model company first so they do what they need to sell models. That's the exact reason the Deathshroud got a massive points drop: because the models weren't selling. And that's why we're getting Primaris Marines instead of just updated regular ones: to sell models while making adjustments to the game and the setting to better match the idea Marines are supposed to be.

 

I will never say the choice was perfect, I've commented how the repeating story line of "wreck an existing chapter and then hand them shiny new toys" is getting old already, but considering that GW is finally addressing both the model scale issues, as well as the balance issues for Marines, I'm willing to accept some hiccups along the way. The Black Library writers inevitable will be what makes or breaks the setting more than the lore we see in the codexes and campaign books anyways.

 

I look forward to seeing what guys like ADB do with the Templars and Grey Knights for instance with the Primaris Marines, and the other Primarchs returning, bringing even more contingencies into play on both sides of the table (more daemon engines like Morty made for Chaos would be nice, and I'd love to see what Vulkan may bring to the table for instance). I see a lot of potential here, even if the studio hasn't quite managed to properly catch lightning in a bottle on their own and look forward to seeing how this plays out going forward.

[Spinsanity]

I have to admit, I love the Primaris marines. The models anyway.

 

However, there are a few annoyances. I love the models, but I hate what had to be sacrificed for them to be released.

 

First of all, their addition was a lose-lose situation, in a way; Games Workshop had two options:

• Release new re-scaled SM and CSM ranges, thus invalidating your best-selling line and pissing off a huuuuuge portion of your player-base
• Create a new breed of Uber SM, which would require some terrible fluff explanation...

Both options blow, truth be told.

[Sete]

See yourself out Ishagu :D

[Ishagu]

I have to admit, I love the Primaris marines. The models anyway.

 

However, there are a few annoyances. I love the models, but I hate what had to be sacrificed for them to be released.

 

First of all, their addition was a lose-lose situation, in a way; Games Workshop had two options:

• Release new re-scaled SM and CSM ranges, thus invalidating your best-selling line and pissing off a huuuuuge portion of your player-base
• Create a new breed of Uber SM, which would require some terrible fluff explanation...

Both options blow, truth be told.

 

 

 

Yeah, really there was no way to do it without someone complaining. Ironically I would have been massively upset if these new Marines were just a visual re-design. I had just re-done an army with all my models donning MkIV armour lol

[Warpmiss]

Let's enjoy the show, the models and the game. It was time for change. I'm not interested in "Warhammer Age of Nurgle: Everything is in Decay" :teehee:

 

As a follower of papa Nurgle, I take offense to that!! That'd be the best setting EVAH.

 

Silliness aside, I really don't like the way the Primaris were introduced from a fluff perspective. One of the things that I found the most interesting about the 40k setting was the stagnation and specially the apparent technological regression. It always seemed like a silly concept to me but that was part of what made the setting so original to me. Then suddenly we have this Cawl dude show up with his Primaris and on top of that in a very shoehorned way. For years my only interest in the hobby was through its setting and aesthetic so of course I didn't like this new course for the lore.

 

But even then, it's funny that I started collecting models with 8th edition, isn't it? Nah, not really, I like the models and also, I'm a filthy heretic so I don't even collect Primaris! I just think GW could have chosen a better way to introduce their new Marine models, that's all. But many players don't feel the same way since the Primaris affect their armies directly and I think it's understandable that some people may get angry after spending their money on normal SM, for example.

[Ishagu]

Scraping the technological regression is the best thing they could have done to the story in my eyes. I'm all for social regression and religious fervour overtaking common sense, but technology doesn't need to follow suit.

I'm excited for the new vehicles, suits or armour and robot that will be revealed in future Primaris releases - And best of all, they don't have to re-write existing stories and lore to include them!

 

"Oh yeah, Centurions have always been around. Blah Blah"

[Lord Marshal]

I think Games Workshop could put anthrax in every box of models and you'd find a way to praise 'em for it Ishagu.

 

The 40k setting was never about progress, innovation, hope and was made clear just about everywhere, including the first few pages of the rulebooks. Cheering for that going away is like clamouring for Star Wars to lose the Light and the Dark Side, or wishing Lord of the Rings was about a bunch of morally ambiguous arseholes going on a selfish quest to claim Sauron's power for themselves.

 

Lore 'advancement' is grand if you're in love with the Imperium, but like everything else about 40k, it comes at the cost of everybody else, especially Xenos players. With Nu!GW doubling down on it's focus upon the Imperium - more specifically, Space Marines - far more than it ever did before, it means that more than ever we're largely seeing things through the eyes of the designated protagonists. Sure, they were largely the focus in the past, but when the lore largely functioned as a setting this didn't matter quite as much because everybody else was playing around in that Imperial sandbox mucking it up.

 

Ironically, Primaris Marines show a regression of sorts for Games Workshop. Instead of expanding into new and exciting territory with Xenos and mortal Imperial factions, we're going to be seeing more bloody Vanilla Marines. Oh boy, IT'S LIKE TACTICAL MARINES... BUT BIGGER! IT'S A CHAPLAIN... BUT BIGGER! Yeah, great, real exciting. I look forward to the revamped line of Grey Knights... BUT BIGGER! Hell, the first new range in the 'Year of Xenos' are... dun, dun, dun, Golden Not!Marines. Yeah, Space Marines sell, but much like the issue was with WHFB, if all you put out is Space Marines then of course the only thing you're going to see selling on the reports are Space Marines. 

 

They're pretty good models though, I'll give GW that much. 

[deathspectersgt7]

Was wondering when you would stir the pot up some more .

I think the models are ok rule wise I kick their 7 times out of 10.

I don't begrudge people who like them and think they are better . But this is getting old already.  Primaris are here whoppeee !!!! do . I have some and I am not all that impressed.

As for the story line they did a sorry  job. I think I came up with a better intro for primaris .

Now they intro of the Custodes I can wave my pom poms over I may just unload my 2500 Marines and go all custodes.

But for me they did very little of keeping my attention  with This hope and Tech advancement.

[Ishagu]

C'mon Lord Marshall, it's not that black or white. Is 8th edition even a year old yet?

The current focus is getting all the books out whilst still releasing new models from time to time. There is no doubt in my mind that Xenos races and new factions will receive attention in the near future.

[Lord Marshal]

C'mon Lord Marshall, it's not that black or white. Is 8th edition even a year old yet?

The current focus is getting all the books out whilst still releasing new models from time to time. There is no doubt in my mind that Xenos races and new factions will receive attention in the near future.

 

So... how about them Custodes, eh?

[Ishagu]

How about those Nurgle?

 

They can only do so many releases a year. Besides, what's wrong with Custodes? They aren't Marines and people want them so GW has delivered.

[Warpmiss]

How about those Nurgle?

They can only do so many releases a year. Besides, what's wrong with Custodes? They aren't Marines and people want them so GW has delivered.

To be fair, the Nurgle models are also for AoS...

[Robbienw]

I am Very Happy now also, due to the Custodes release. It's made up for the poor effort that was the Primaris release and fluff. That's how you do a elite of the elite +1 super soldier ;)

[m0nolith]

Ishagu, time and time again you keep making the argument that people don't want change, and time and time again we tell you we don't mind change, what we want is quality change.

You really need to stop this straw man argument.
 

You really need to stop beating this dead horse. The horse has been killed, resurrected by Nurgle, and executed again by a Commissar.

[Ishagu]

But that's an assumption that the change is objectivey bad?

 

I've read Dark Imperium - it was really good. I was perfectly content with the Primaris and other things after that. Devastation of Baal re-enforced this also - Another book taking part in the 42nd millennium so to speak.

There are some plot summaries knocking about that don't do the story any favours. There are bigger plot holes in the Horus Heresy novels and everyone by and large likes those.