+++ Recreating Khorne Daemonkin for 8th Edition +++

[Gederas]

A query for you all. I'm currently working on my Daemonkin forces (with more of a focus on Daemons because the current Chaos Marine models are kind of.... yeah). I'm looking for thoughts on my current Daemons forces, and what I should work on next.

 

Currently I have:

- Skarbrand

- Skulltaker

- Three Heralds

- Blood Throne

- Daemon Prince (wings, Talons)

- 60 Bloodletters (3 squads of 20, icon and instrument in each)

- Skull Cannon

- 6 Bloodcrushers

 

I ordered Karanak and a Soul Grinder last week, and I'll be picking them up tomorrow when my local GW opens.

 

I'm thinking I could use Flesh Hounds, possibly Furies?

[CrystalSeer]

Looks like you have all the main stuff. If you're thinking hounds, I'd wait, because I've heard rumors of plastics coming soon.

[Gederas]

Looks like you have all the main stuff. If you're thinking hounds, I'd wait, because I've heard rumors of plastics coming soon.

Rumours don't kill my enemies :lol:

 

In all seriousness, I think there are plastic Hounds soon, as there's one with the Age of Sigmar starter box lord, and another for the Blood Warriors coming out for Shadespire.

[Khornestar]

I don’t think flesh hounds are so good that you need to get them right now, unless you really like the kit and don’t mind the price. I’d wait, personally, but if you really want ‘em, do what you will!

[Gederas]

I don’t think flesh hounds are so good that you need to get them right now, unless you really like the kit and don’t mind the price. I’d wait, personally, but if you really want ‘em, do what you will!

I like the kit, and I would have bought a ton of Flesh Hounds by now if not for the price. They cost as much as Terminators :lol: I feel that I can wait until a plastic kit comes out (hopefully sooner rather than later) before getting a bunch of them.

[Xorriath]

What do you guys thing would make better escorts for Daemon Princes ?Flesh Hounds or Bikers ?

[Khornestar]

I see benefits to both. Bikes are quicker and have good shooting options, T5. Hounds have an invuln save and can deny psykers. Depends, I guess. Hounds are cheaper and benefit from loci, as well.

[Sgt. Blank]

I think the escort depends on your local meta. Juggernut captured the pros and cons well - hounds are cheaper pointwise and, if they get there, hit slightly harder in assault while bikes offer some (but not great) shooting.

 

Personally, i'd lean towards hounds. Bikes do offer a relatively cheap, durable option to threaten chaff or screening units with volume of bolter fire. My (limited) experience this edition with using bikes as a platform for special weapons is that they are OK for softening large or tough targets but unlikely to knock out units in a single lucky volley of shooting like they could in 7th.

 

Hounds have a higher strength and better AP if they make it to assault and free up CP or relic slots with their ability to deny psykers.

 

Honestly though, I've have decent luck just hiding a DP behind a Rhino and using the Rhino or its passengers (Berserkers) to eat overwatch.

[CrystalSeer]

So, strange question, but relevant to me right now.

 

What makes your army fun to play?

 

Right now, my force is tabling people by third turn every game. I'm swarming opponents in bloodletters, then following up with a few heavy hitters and berserkers. It's effective, but rather point and click.

 

Is there a way to bring variety to khorne? Or do I need to Branch out and bring other gods?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So, what do you guys think, is bloodletter bomb dead now? 

[Khornestar]

I think its ability to open the table up to the rest of our army has been seriously cut down. Still going to kill stuff, but the enemy has a whole turn to position ideally and kill whatever we have on the table.

[Stross]

So, what do you guys think, is bloodletter bomb dead now? 

No. They are cheep in power points, so it is not problem to fill the field with something like DP, screened by another squad of letters. 

We got 5 CP for Batallion, so outplaying it smart, we can fight twice with 30 letters or give them 4+ invulnarable. 

But it think pink bomb or flamer bomb now are much more stronger. 

 

But now we can't to just spread around and lock everything because all parkings can move their screen further, especially Imperial guard. 

So the tactic is to clean right or left side of the field. 

Still, monodaemons are much worse now, so I still play them with TS or normal CSM

[Sagentus]

I missed the FAQ whats the rulling now for bloodletter bomb? does that mean other choices will be more prevelant in our khorne armies? 

[CrystalSeer]

I missed the FAQ whats the rulling now for bloodletter bomb? does that mean other choices will be more prevelant in our khorne armies? 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

[CrystalSeer]

So, what do you guys think, is bloodletter bomb dead now? 

 

No, bloodletters will be fine, as they are low PL. What changes is the balance of the force. Essentially, you have to weather a guaranteed 1 turn of shooting, and possibly two, with whatever is on the table before your bloodletters can reach out and touch face.

 

This is problematic when running mono-khorne, as shooting exchanges are extremely one sided. Our armor saves also tend to be rather lack luster.

 

This means you will need to dedicate an anchor element (high survivability to hold ground against lots of shooting) to stay alive waiting for your hammer units to show up. It also heavily restricts taking things like Bloodthirsters in reserve, as their PL will be inflated. These things both make for less efficient assault forces.

 

One thing that's nice about this though, from all the extra CP from battalions, Warp Surge is a lot more manageable.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The problem is not power level related. The problem is trying to find a spot on the table after T2 where a unit of 20-30 blood letters can be placed and still stay 9" away from any enemy units. The opponent can really screw up the application of the "bloodlettter bomb" by tactically maneuvering their units.

[Panzer]

I agree, finding a spot for so many models that's more than 9" away from any opponent unit after everything in your opponents army had the chance to move once (twice if you're going second) will be basically impossible unless it's a super elite army like Custodes or whatever. It's even worse for pure Daemon armies due lacking ranged stuff to clear the deep strike space beforehand.

[CrystalSeer]

The problem is not power level related. The problem is trying to find a spot on the table after T2 where a unit of 20-30 blood letters can be placed and still stay 9" away from any enemy units. The opponent can really screw up the application of the "bloodlettter bomb" by tactically maneuvering their units.

 

I'm planning to have berserkers in rhinos on the board. If they rush forward and spread out, that will make them easier targets for my World Eaters.

[Sagentus]

I still think we would need something more substancial  on the field. How well would a bloodletter squad of 30 survive with a DP close by if it was to deploy with the rest of the army? could then DS the further 2 squads of bloodletters and anothe DP 

[CrystalSeer]

I still think we would need something more substancial  on the field. How well would a bloodletter squad of 30 survive with a DP close by if it was to deploy with the rest of the army? could then DS the further 2 squads of bloodletters and anothe DP 

 

I'm looking at this too. My main thoughts are rhino units or fortifications. A bunker (or 3) may be warranted in this situation.

[Sgt. Blank]

I've got three units of bloodletters in process on my painting table right now, pretty irritated that what appeared to be one of the core mechanics for daemons didn't last 6 months.

 

I guess we'll see how 'beta' the deep strike change is but I like the suggestion about bikes and heldrakes as a way to close distance and leave room for daemons to arrive.

[Stross]

I rethink something a bit. Bloodletters really cheep in power points and we get more CP. So it is not only 3 big bloodletter bombs, but we have enough cp to fight twice. And with herold it will going to cost 10 cp, making him warlord and give reroll 1's after charge. And even crimson crown. And it is only cost about something 761 pts or 39 power points.

I doubt that anyone else, aside from tyranids (who can't charge on 3D6 or can be moved by Swarmlord anymore), can do that.

The rest of the army can be builded as you like.  It is enough to destroy any screen with first wave. 

But still we have problem with new terrain rule, if enemy swarm the second floor. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

The problem is not power level related. The problem is trying to find a spot on the table after T2 where a unit of 20-30 blood letters can be placed and still stay 9" away from any enemy units. The opponent can really screw up the application of the "bloodlettter bomb" by tactically maneuvering their units.

 

I'm planning to have berserkers in rhinos on the board. If they rush forward and spread out, that will make them easier targets for my World Eaters.

 

If your opponent has a bunch of chaff units like conscripts then it's not going to matter if you have Berzerkers that are going to be rushing forward so I'm not sure that's really going to help out much. 

 

I still think we would need something more substancial  on the field. How well would a bloodletter squad of 30 survive with a DP close by if it was to deploy with the rest of the army? could then DS the further 2 squads of bloodletters and anothe DP 

Hellforged Spartan!!!

[Sagentus]

I wish i had the money for a spartan lol

[Sgt. Blank]

As Bloody Legionaire indicated, the big hit from th beta deep strike change is that it takes a reliable Bloodletters alpha strike off the table as an option. Granted, it wouldn't work every game but it's a scary possibility for most armies.

 

While I'm not shelling out for a spartan, I do think transports are a big part of the answer. I've had pretty decent luck with Rhinos this edition, especially when other armored targets that present a turn 1 threat (i.e. Predators) re on the table as well. I don't need them to survive the whole game, just long enough to set Berzerkers up for a charge. Combined with other fast units (bikes, Heldrakes, flesh hounds) enemies who move out aggressively to block Bloodletters are likely to be assaulted by deployed units.