Angelus no more... Malevolence is Now!

[m_r_parker]

First off, congrats StruManChu on getting into the Weekender! You can now bask in the glow that next yer you'll be able to buy tickets before they go on general release, practically guaranteeing you a ticket (provided you pay for it, obviously).

 

Now I'll agree that the online elements of the hobby has got progressively worse over the past two years, to the point where last year I didn't want to go online on the Sunday because there were so many rants about the lack of Wulfen in Inferno, or not having any helm upgrade packs for the Space Wolves (just an example, not singling out Wolf players because so many groups of gamers are guilty of it) - but this is the first time I'm actually hearing about it at the events themselves. I didn't see any of it myself, and maybe that's just been luck on my side and being in the seminars. For the Weekender in particular I do see a lot of the same faces floating about, and in general they all seem to have a great time and the whole energy of the event is positive.

Was there any particular session you saw this in? I'm taking a wild stab that the Age of Darkness Forum might have been a hot bed for it, given it's rules and book writers on a fairly open platform for people to throw random questions in. Sometimes people can get intense about their own pet Legion, especially if models or rules have been a long time in the works. Heck, I'm surprised this year there wasn't someone asking about a Saul Tarvitz model (but those requests are mainly in jest anyway). 

 

In a lot of the Q&As there's usually a high percentage of questions that fall into the "When are we getting <X>?" bracket, either in terms of a specific model or unit, or a specific set of rules, updates, FAQ's or other random stuff. And I see it mirrored on the online community too, there's been a definitive shift in peoples attitudes towards wanting a more definitive timeline around releases, regardless of whether it's models or rules. 

 

I didn't know Simon Eagan had people giving bad feedback about Dorn - out of all the releases there I think Dorn was the best and stood way above the others. In fairness I did call him a 'Git' at one time, but only because he was going through his sculpting style and I'm insanely jealous of what he can do from a scratchbuiling and modelling perspective. I had heard a lot of bad stuff being said about Valdor, and to be honest whilst I didn't like certain aspects of the sculpt there were others around being a tad more disrespectful overall about it. But then again it takes Simon Eagan 4 months to do one model, and nearly all other FW designers don't get the luxury to do that.

 

But I think it's maybe because we all go to these events for different reasons that things like this occur. I'm not a massive gamer, I have problems sticking to one army and getting things completed, and my painting skill is not fantastic (although I do plan to try and remedy some of this on a thread in a few weeks). I like the background of the Heresy more than the gaming side, and I quite enjoy seeing a lot of the 'behind the scenes' stuff that goes on at FW / BL / GW. I make a point of going to as many seminars as possible, and speaking to the guys of the Design Studio for a bit, because you just can't get that stuff anywhere else really. It's also why I think it's strange that there's always a core group of people who seem to only play games in the dedicated gaming room - you can play a game anywhere and anytime almost, but you're only going to see these seminars and hear from the people heading all this up for this small amount of time. Other people are hardcore gamers, and obviously care little for the background pieces that FW put out along with the BL novel series - they want to know when new rules are coming out, and when models are getting released, fairly open and shut on that one. I've often gone into the Design Studio and most people are only interested in what new shiny is in the cabinet, and then grilling designers for info (rules, release date, price, etc). Each to their own I suppose. 

[Master Sheol]

Thanks to people reporting from the weekender

Yes it can be that people at FW are not villains but then they seriously should start to interact better with community cause there are people like me that spent Thousand of euros in models and book that everytime a weekender and wait for news about their army they are Simply told "Sorry you are delayed for another year but we have a model of a primarch of a legion you don't want to buy and Paint while you wait"

It would Save FW and HH project from all the hate they are getting now

[m_r_parker]

I'm sorry, I know I seem at this point I'm arguing here, but honestly I'm not. But I just don't see the whole "should start to interact better with community" angle here.

 

Literally a couple of years ago you could attend a Warhammer Fest or a 40k Open Day and you would struggle to get any information from the GW side of the house. They didn't do previews, they weren't discussing how things were done behind the scenes, and all their staff were told not to discuss anything beyond what you could buy in the shop. They had killed off their own online forums, deleted their social media pages, and literally the only source of info for them was White Dwarf - it was a complete lockdown. The only saving grace to those events were the ForgeWorld guys, who were happy to show off upcoming stuff, allow you to ask the hard questions to their designers and writers, and let you in on what is going on. Black Library too were very accommodating on that front.

 

Now, at least GW is starting to get back to it's best with regards to all of that, but ForgeWorld is still doing everything it's been doing before, their level of interaction isn't any different. For multiple times during the year they will present to you what they've got coming up and any changes that are afoot. Heresy Weekender, Warhammer Fest, FW Open Day, 40k Open Day (or any other Open Day that they are in attendance at) - all opportunities for us to ask questions, and opportunities for them to let us know what's happening. We knew from a few months ago that the next Black Book was going to be delayed in it's release, that was transparent from them, and still is considering it's early days and there's no firm release date. They're stating their intentions, they want to get it out this year, which is what they've currently got planned. 

 

If it's simply that the Dark Angels have been dropped from the book, well I would wager that you still would have this feeling if it were communicated a month ago or even two months ago. The facts would still be the same now, that the 1st Legion wouldn't be covered in the next Black Book release. At least by communicating this message at a major event like the Heresy Weekender it actually allows them to field a level of questions from the attendees as well as give them a platform for explaining why they've made that design choice. In all fairness, that's a fair way to engage with the community - and if you don't feel like your individual concerns are being addressed, then you can email or call them to discuss things. They will actually get back to you if you go through that, they are pretty good in that regard. 

 

Are you inferring that the Dark Angels are a more popular Legion than the Blood Angels, and it should be the BA's who are pushed back to Book 9? Part of me would love to agree with you on that front, but I don't actually think that's the case. Whenever the Blood Angels get discussed at these events there's always more of a buzz from the audience than their 1st Legion brethren, and that's before we go into a comparison between the Angel and the Lion. 

 

Are you inferring that Forge World should be taking polls of which force should have been pushed back and which should have been kept in? More so than anything else I think that would be business suicide. All it would do is split the community, more so than how they conveyed the message at this event. It would also be a strong indication that they, as a company, had no clear idea how to develop their product line - and a publicly traded GW parent does not want something like that to be talked about, as it affects share price and the bottom line for shareholders. 

 

Ironically the best solution for Forge World to avoid "all the hate they are getting now" is to do the complete opposite of what they've been doing. If they never share anything with us, and book contents are only shared at the point of release, then nobody really knows whether or not their army has been pushed back or delayed. However, I'm guessing players would still complain that their army has been missed out.

 

It's almost like there's an inevitability that as someone will come first another will have to be last. As the saying goes "You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time" 

[RedFurioso]

 

Are you inferring that the Dark Angels are a more popular Legion than the Blood Angels, and it should be the BA's who are pushed back to Book 9? Part of me would love to agree with you on that front, but I don't actually think that's the case. Whenever the Blood Angels get discussed at these events there's always more of a buzz from the audience than their 1st Legion brethren, and that's before we go into a comparison between the Angel and the Lion. 

 

White Scars are the most unpopular Legion, though. Maybe combining them with significantly more popular Blood Angels in one book is the only way to sell them?

What really upset me is that ForgeWorld ruined original 'Angels of Death Codex'-themed Angelus' idea of Alan. I think he wanted to do it this way.

[Noserenda]

Well id definitely drop Daemons under the bus long before one of the legions :P 

But yes Mr Parker is correct i think, though like a said, now its FW that seem withdrawn and GW who is sharing stuff, though i think a lot of that is the Mayhem which has engulfed FW recently with the massive changes and losses, hopefully they will be up to spec soon.

[b1soul]

Most Space Wolf fans loved Inferno, no? It was well worth the wait.

 

Can't imagine FW not pulling out all the stops to justify the DA's status as the First Legion.

[carlisimo]

As a new player and White Scars fan, I was at peace with waiting another two years. You could make a case that it's better to start an army that far ahead of getting new rules, rather than starting several months before - your army will change on you before you're done. (With one exception - having a legion decal sheet available makes things much easier, imo, and I hope Dark Angels players don't have to wait longer for that.)

 

I get it, though. The White Scars are relatively straightforward, and the Blood Angels are too. I expect Forge World to surprise us a little bit, but they're not reinventing the wheel. Their adversaries shouldn't be too difficult, either. Daemons have two or three codexes to use as a basis, and the White Scars fight themselves. Throwing in a story with the Alpha Legion as the bad guys is totally normal and it lets FW tweak the Space Wolves just one book later.

 

The Dark Angels are a lot tougher given that FW has committed to representing the six wings. It's a lot of playstyles and unit sizes that need to be balanced in conjunction with the legion rules. And those legion rules are controversial - usually there's some sort of consensus about special rules being over- or under-powered, but I've heard both in regards to the Dark Angels. It sounds like their games are more 'swingy' than most because their benefits and drawbacks are both fairly significant. Worse, they're being paired with Dark Mechanicum which is also a bad project to take on when the office is struggling. I feel for you guys and would happily trade places if it meant FW were capable of handling large projects again.

 

On another note, it's crazy to think that by 2020, all the black books other than Retribution will have been set early in the Heresy. Exclude Conquest as well, and that's 7 of 9 books covering just the first battles. We've got a long way to go.

[depthcharge12]

The only way I will forgive them for this delay is if they release grav raiders and warp rift cannon Fellblade on release day.

 

Harrumph

[Master Sheol]

The only way I will forgive them for this delay is if they release grav raiders and warp rift cannon Fellblade on release day.

 

Harrumph

I agree

GW/FW should realized that the DA players angriness is caused by them and not by us

GW gave us some of the worst written codices ever, and not one but 3/4 in a row, we had a meh 2nd edition codex, ugly 3rd edition one that needed fix (i was in B&C during those years and i Remember guys here in B&C that helped Andy O'hare with feedback to fix the codex, 4th edition one is the worst astartes codex ever, 6th edition one was ugly too, 7th edition was the only strong one but only if you used RW cause my beloved DW was subpar, 8th edition codex is meh again one of the weakest astartes codices of this edition.

Then came Thorpe writing the ugly stories that leaded to the wrong but widespread joke "DA are traitors and Fallen are loyalists" and put DA in such bad light that in a weekender a few years ago at the question "do you want DA upgrade set or that 2000€ titan?" people voted for the titan (a titan a dozen people bought, three people completed and maybe one people use in a apocalypse game every year or two) i Will Never buy that titan cause it's offending the First legion

And then the costant delays of this Black book that made DA players even more angry

 

The average DA player is now following the words "Never Forget Never Forgive" and GW/FW should realize that

 

I am just curious to see how long they will delay again the DA Black book now

My guess is that FW will put between BA/WS book and ours another filler book cause our book, including the dark mechanicum, will have rules problems (if you choose to keep with the worst edition of 40k you shouldn't complain if you have issues balancing the rules) and they Will release it in 2020 or later (and we Will see the Lion maybe in 2022 or 2023)

 

Maybe i am pessimistic but i don't see a Happy ending for the First Legion in 30K

[m_r_parker]

Ok, first things first - a bit of housekeeping. Let's remember this is a 30k subforum, and that the various 40k codices over the years were 1) for a different game system, and 2) written by a different set of people from the current 30k writers. What we've seen before in 40k will not bleed over into 30k. 

The irony is that around the 4th Edition codex, the Dark Angels were used as the test bed of 5th Edition (I believe the phrase "Written with 5th in mind" was used) and were literally the guinea pigs with everyone else benefitting from the lessons learned. Using that as an argument against DA coming last in the schedule, where they can reap the benefits of lessons learnt from other books...

 

Next, let's try to break some of the argument up here, because they're being linked together where no link exists. I'll also leave Gav Thorpe's DA novels by the wayside here, as it sounds like you're referring to Angels of Darkness, which is before the main HH novel series started. Even Descent of Angels is before the 30k gaming system, and a lot of those early novels have had items retconned or just plain ignored. So no, none of that fed into the Warlord Titan / Dark Angel Shoulder Pads joke of a couple of years ago...

 

What happened with that was Tony Cottrell decided to drop a secret easter egg into the seminar, knowing beforehand that they've managed to complete a Warlord Titan for release later in the year. What he did was latch onto the first of the more popular of the "When are we getting <X>?" questions in the new model seminar and decided to drop the egg there. What you have to remember is:

• It wasn't a community vote to see what would come first, Dark Angel shoulder pads or a Warlord Titan. The decision had already been made by the design team, it was something that was done for a bit of a lark and people played along. Heck, alongside for the voting of those two was a High Elf embroidery book AND I STILL DON'T HAVE MY EMBROIDERY BOOK!!! We simply don't have that level of control you're implying.
• Of course we're going to vote to see a 40k / 30k scale Warlord Titan before seeing Dark Angel shoulder pads. We know what the shoulder pads are going to look like, and in terms of models and accessories the shoulder pads are typically the most boring (the majority of the time it's just the Legion / Chapter symbol). But to see a Warlord Titan at that scale, considering the previous Titan was the Reaver quite a few years ago - you better bet that people were going to 'vote' for that even if the opportunity was small and this was more than likely just a joke.
• If you're going to quote numbers, please make sure they're correct. You're implying that not many people bought them, and I should hope not it's a hugely expensive model. I was there for the Weekend it was on pre-release, and they sold a dozen just on that first day alone (6 were physically available, another 6 were ordered) and it was similar on the second day of pre-release (again, 6 were physically available for that day, they sold out and more orders were taken). I've seen more Warlords completed for Golden Demon than you think have even been completed. So I'd say that FW made the right call to take that on as a project.
• If you're thinking that the Warlord Titan was a direct result in Shoulder Pads not being made available, then you need to remember the time that this was in. Legion upgrade kits at that time were only being done for those Legions that had appeared in a Black Book, just as there were no Dark Angel upgrades there were similar gaps for Blood Angels, White Scars and others. It was only later that FW made the decision to push Legion upgrades to the front so that hobbyists could build themed squads before rules were made available. The Warlord Titan had no bearing on that whatsoever. 

So if you're thinking the Warlord is offending the first Legion, then by default it's offending every other Legion that it came before, including the White Scars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons...

 

if you want to think that FW will add in another book between Malevolance and the Dark Angel book, then that is entirely your choice to think that. I'm going to go with the schedule that the Design Team have given us so far because I don't have any reason to think otherwise, that what they're saying is currently true but also subject to change if need be. If you're thinking that a Lion model will be years after the book comes out, well I really don't think that's going to be the case. The sculptors have always known that there was a backlog of miniatures that needed completing, and that the pace of the books outran the pace of the model team. There's a pause in the books at the moment, and this is giving the model team time to bring things back into order and to even get ahead of the game slightly. Having chatted to some of the more senior people at ForgeWorld they want to be more pro-active in bringing characters and units to go alongside book release, and that's something they've learned from the Space Wolf community in particular. But if you take a look at Inferno and the two Primarchs in it, Magnus was only ~6 months after the book release, and Russ was out before the book hit the shelves. You won't wait 2 or 3 years until after the Black Book to see a Lion model, if he's the only new Primarch / major character in the book then I'd be looking at release alongside the book.

 

 

I just want to put this out there - it's ok not to be happy with the way things have turned out for your army, and that you're going to have to wait a little longer. There doesn't have to be any justification as to why you feel like that, there doesn't have to be a long line of reasons to make it ok that your dissapointed / angry / annoyed, it can simply just be. Embrace it, accept it for what it is, just know that it's not a conspiracy against that particular army, and that there's always going to be someone at the end of the list and sometimes luck just isn't on your side.

[ChildofFang]

They have sold plenty of Warlords. It wasn’t just the opening weekend either. Sales have continued since, I’ve spoken to staff members about it.

 

Also Having seen various staff comment both on and off the internet - People shouldn’t really be stating what Alan would or wouldn’t have wanted unless they have actual quotes to back it up. It’s pretty disrespectful to everyone involved. I’ve even had a staff member give me information about things I’ve reported on the podcast because the situation had changed without the public knowing, even though I was reporting what was honestly stated previously.

 

As for the way feedback is given, a lot of it is way out of order. You can express disappointment in a calm, measured way or you can shout and moan and cry foul at the injustices done to you. Both let FW know you are unhappy, one opens a way to discuss the issues and one makes people want to avoid you.

[Caillum]

@Master Sheol - As people have already replied to your latest post, I have made it visible to the thread again. I don't think it was your intent to derail things, and m_r_parker has already rebutted a lot of your comments in a very constructive way, so I don't think I need to reply to your concerns. As much as I feel for you, please try to remember to post constructively, as per the Forum Rules. It's not personal - FW made this decision from a business standpoint. I'm sure that when the First Legion get some well-deserved attention, you will look back on this moment introspectively. 

 

@m_r_parker - Like I said, that was very well put. You have the first-hand experience to be able to say these things with conviction too. Also, your efforts in the last week are greatly appreciated by all on the forum, and I just wanted to make sure you know that! :)

[Master Sheol]

I apologize if i seem like a cry baby

I am not

I am just bitter about the situation

 

So Sorry if i was too vocal in my disappointment torwards HH schedule

It was not my intention

 

I guess i have to write a mail to FW to Express them my deep bitter sadness about the DA situation in 30K

 

Thanks all for tollerating the bitter words of this old grumpy hobbist ;)

[Huggtand]

Most Space Wolf fans loved Inferno, no? It was well worth the wait.

 

Can't imagine FW not pulling out all the stops to justify the DA's status as the First Legion.

 

Yes, even if the rules where a bit underwhelming for the wolves the rest of Inferno was well worth the wait in my opinion. Rules can and are always changing but the fluff and is what, I think, defines the black books.

[Master Sheol]

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

[Torvak Kyre]

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

[Master Sheol]

 

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

I am not asking that but if It goes the way it seems DA will have their rules about 8 years after the HH project started

I played 3 HH games with my vanilla in black against IW, SoH and AL and all three times i was wiped out due to other players having the same toys i have and much more

I am not gonna plays two years more in this situation so the better solution is to freezer HH and play 40K where i do have fun

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

I am not asking that but if It goes the way it seems DA will have their rules about 8 years after the HH project started

I played 3 HH games with my vanilla in black against IW, SoH and AL and all three times i was wiped out due to other players having the same toys i have and much more

I am not gonna plays two years more in this situation so the better solution is to freezer HH and play 40K where i do have fun

 

 

 

Dark Angels have their rules and Rites of War, atm. Dark Angels won't have special units. A subtle, but important distinction. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

I am not asking that but if It goes the way it seems DA will have their rules about 8 years after the HH project started

I played 3 HH games with my vanilla in black against IW, SoH and AL and all three times i was wiped out due to other players having the same toys i have and much more

I am not gonna plays two years more in this situation so the better solution is to freezer HH and play 40K where i do have fun

 

 

There is literally no other response they could give, though? There are already upgrade kits released, and the current release schedule doesn't have the Dark Angels getting unique units for a while. Also, the DA are being done later because, as the events of the Heresy go, the Dark Angels didn't really do much until much later in the Heresy. The Istvaan Legions basically had to be done first, as well as the Wolves/Thousand Sons. After that, Ultramarines allowed them to do Calth, allowing them to do the Cults/Heretics/Imperial Army lists, which left the BA/WS/DA, and they've already given their explanation on why they're doing those in the order they have.

 

I do sympathise, but what were you actually expecting the response to your letter to be? You say that you don't expect them to start churning out DA models, but aren't satisfied with the response given. What would you want them to do? Personally apologise for leaving them so late?

[Theredknight]

 

 

 

 

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

I am not asking that but if It goes the way it seems DA will have their rules about 8 years after the HH project started

I played 3 HH games with my vanilla in black against IW, SoH and AL and all three times i was wiped out due to other players having the same toys i have and much more

I am not gonna plays two years more in this situation so the better solution is to freezer HH and play 40K where i do have fun

There is literally no other response they could give, though? There are already upgrade kits released, and the current release schedule doesn't have the Dark Angels getting unique units for a while. Also, the DA are being done later because, as the events of the Heresy go, the Dark Angels didn't really do much until much later in the Heresy. The Istvaan Legions basically had to be done first, as well as the Wolves/Thousand Sons. After that, Ultramarines allowed them to do Calth, allowing them to do the Cults/Heretics/Imperial Army lists, which left the BA/WS/DA, and they've already given their explanation on why they're doing those in the order they have.

 

I do sympathise, but what were you actually expecting the response to your letter to be? You say that you don't expect them to start churning out DA models, but aren't satisfied with the response given. What would you want them to do? Personally apologise for leaving them so late?

 

I chuckled slightly when I read this. People get burned, end of.

I have heard it no end from some people in a gaming group ‘when will xenos get their rules’ well..never really.

 

Besides, dark angels are bloody ruinous and can easily content with legions who have their special units. I got smashed by a speeder / Jetbike army at thrones once, it was disgusting.

I digress.

I have BA, been waiting for yonks too, in the words of animal mother ‘better you than me’ :-D

[Ficinus]

I've heard the more you pout, the faster your book gets done.

 

Look, the DA have one of the most powerful rites of war when their special equipment is considered. In Ravenwing, jetbikes with Acid Shells are death incarnate (and Terranic Greatswords can tear up Cybernetica as a bonus). For Ironwing, Veteran snipers are badass and dual Kheres Contemptors will easily drop a Sicaran a turn. We have good stuff, just play more. Losing your first three games doesn't mean your faction is garbage, it means you should play more games.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

 

 

Write to FW

The reply was not satisfactory (Just "Sorry if you are sad but -put a lot of reasons here- wait for your turn there is already a lot of cool upgrade sets for DA and generic kits for all legions"

 

I ended buying extra pots of dark green (and black and bone) for 40K DA

 

My HH DA (and any order from FW) are Frozen until the DA Black book (probably in 2019-2020)

I’m sorry but what were you expecting? They’re not going to suddenly start pumping out DA kits because they have one guy asking for them.

I am not asking that but if It goes the way it seems DA will have their rules about 8 years after the HH project started

I played 3 HH games with my vanilla in black against IW, SoH and AL and all three times i was wiped out due to other players having the same toys i have and much more

I am not gonna plays two years more in this situation so the better solution is to freezer HH and play 40K where i do have fun

There is literally no other response they could give, though? There are already upgrade kits released, and the current release schedule doesn't have the Dark Angels getting unique units for a while. Also, the DA are being done later because, as the events of the Heresy go, the Dark Angels didn't really do much until much later in the Heresy. The Istvaan Legions basically had to be done first, as well as the Wolves/Thousand Sons. After that, Ultramarines allowed them to do Calth, allowing them to do the Cults/Heretics/Imperial Army lists, which left the BA/WS/DA, and they've already given their explanation on why they're doing those in the order they have.

 

I do sympathise, but what were you actually expecting the response to your letter to be? You say that you don't expect them to start churning out DA models, but aren't satisfied with the response given. What would you want them to do? Personally apologise for leaving them so late?

 

I chuckled slightly when I read this. People get burned, end of.

I have heard it no end from some people in a gaming group ‘when will xenos get their rules’ well..never really.

 

Besides, dark angels are bloody ruinous and can easily content with legions who have their special units. I got smashed by a speeder / Jetbike army at thrones once, it was disgusting.

I digress.

I have BA, been waiting for yonks too, in the words of animal mother ‘better you than me’ :-D

 

 

The Xenos will get their rules when they take part in a major conflict during the Heresy itself! :p

 

I've been waiting for the Blood Angels for ages as well, and really want to see what they do for the White Scars/Dark Angels. As you've said, no matter what order they do it in, somebody will get left until last. I'll agree that the Dark Angels do have a really unfortunate track record, I mean, do you want to release the Legions in numerical order, at which point the Sons of Horus would be one of the last Legions done, and a whole bunch of the Istvaan Legions get left even later?

Instead, they've done it in terms of story importance, and let's be honest, the Dark Angels didn't exactly do much during the Horus Heresy. The Black Library team at least gave them the Thramas Crusade, but even that just consists of the Night Lords pestering them and stopping them from leaving rather than any big set-pieces. The Dark Angels thing had always been that they turned up late to the party on Terra, then their homeworld somehow got mysteriously destroyed for an unknown reason that is entirely unrelated to their Primarch going missing. Entirely. Unrelated!

 

Pretty much all the Legions that have already been done are the Traitors, and the Loyalists with the major battles. The Blood Angels/White Scars, until Black Library came along, only really did the Siege of Terra. The Blood Angels at least got Signus, which allows Forge World to do some awesome daemon stuff, and they need to essentially make a whole Daemon Codex again thanks to 8th coming out, so are more "important" to write about. Sadly, it boiled down to "do we also include the White Scars, with their plotline of 'harassed by the Alpha Legion until they broke free and take part in the Siege', or the Dark Angels, with their plotline of 'harassed by the Night Lords until they break free too late to do anything but brawl with Leman Russ'".

[Master Sheol]

DA before facing with the NL slowing them to reach Terra had to face also the dark mechanicum too so DA vs DarkMech Will bè included in the Black book too

I am Sorry for DarkMech players cause they have to wait for the most delayed legion to get some love :D

 

I know that someone has to be last but DA according to FW had to be Just After prospero with BA (being that battles vs the DarkMech in the first part of heresy) but they got delayed several times

If they was meant to be the last from the start (like wS players knew) i would accept It better but we have being costantly delayed and i have to wait 4/5 years more than what FW originally announced

It's the same time 40k takes for an entire edition :(

 

It's not Just the long wait but also the constant delays that burn a lot

 

And about always losing a game i know that DA have new rules but having built an army with the vanilla models from Red book and using the vanilla rules i am now in the ankward position to building again my army from almost scratch with the FW costs

When the meta changes in 40k it's easier to adapt cause the costs are a lot lower (a Tactical squad in 30k costs 3 times more than One in 40k)

[foamy248]

When the meta changes in 40k it's easier to adapt cause the costs are a lot lower (a Tactical squad in 30k costs 3 times more than One in 40k)

It's called game balance.

 

On topic, though - whining and complaining isn't going to speed up the writers at FW. Someone had to be last, and I don't think that being the last legion fully fleshed out is actually problematic. I understand that DA's players don't want to wait another year or two (or three tbh) for their full legion rules (+characters and primarch), but I'm sure they'll be worth the wait when they do drop (and the First will get the awesomely unique rules/fluff that they deserve)?

[Fire Golem]

DA before facing with the NL slowing them to reach Terra had to face also the dark mechanicum too so DA vs DarkMech Will bè included in the Black book too

I am Sorry for DarkMech players cause they have to wait for the most delayed legion to get some love :D

I know that someone has to be last but DA according to FW had to be Just After prospero with BA (being that battles vs the DarkMech in the first part of heresy) but they got delayed several times

If they was meant to be the last from the start (like wS players knew) i would accept It better but we have being costantly delayed and i have to wait 4/5 years more than what FW originally announced

It's the same time 40k takes for an entire edition :(

It's not Just the long wait but also the constant delays that burn a lot

And about always losing a game i know that DA have new rules but having built an army with the vanilla models from Red book and using the vanilla rules i am now in the ankward position to building again my army from almost scratch with the FW costs

When the meta changes in 40k it's easier to adapt cause the costs are a lot lower (a Tactical squad in 30k costs 3 times more than One in 40k)

There hasn’t been constant delays. They’ve been pushed back 1 book. The Space Wolves and Thousand Sons were pushed back from book 4 to book 7. Thats constant delays.