How are your Custodes doing?

[duz_]

Further discussion on the legality of using what Primaris Psyker for a SoS detachment can goto the OR.

 

:tu:

[masterstrider]

I would personally LOVE to have the ability to cleave holes in things with my axes, but alas, they are the same damage profile as the spear. Just me, but our axes need to be 3 flat damage, the end.  Spears should be 2, Powerfists should be D3, talons 1.  

 

 

A fixed three damage weapon (even a relic) would help Custodes immensely. As it is, marine captains can do far more damage.

 

For example, against T8, save 3+, the average damage is:

Charging jetbike shield captain = 4w

Wolf lord, hammer = 6w

Blood angels death visions + artisan = 12w

Murderfang dreadnought = 15 (or 18 if he has someone giving to hit rerolls)

The smash captains are much cheaper, and the dreadnought is about the same, as the jetbike shield captain (who is far more survivable).

 

I think Custodes are great at taking a punch, can slay elite infantry... but need allies for decisive melees against big targets, which is a shame (both game and fluff wise)

 

I have written about this very issue in my post where I proposed codex revision changes. Have a read and give a like if you agree. 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359088-adeptus-custodes-codex-20-recommended-changes/

Edited November 19, 2019 by masterstrider

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I wish they’d buff up the Telemon again tbh.

[Mainely Wargamming]

No, please.  Stop making me buy crappy FW sculpts.  Give us a proper GW model that is actually worth two turds and doesn't have it's basis in a 5th gen model. I just really want GW to give us some love, other than Allarus, Wardens, Guard, and bikes.  

[duz_]

Let's keep the topic to current performance of Custodes and avoid wishlisting too much, there are other threads for that already.

[rcoon]

Anyone else feel massively deflated with Custodes at the moment? I feel immensely frustrated with my army at the moment, especially with Space Marines everywhere. The nerf to the Caladius and Telemon hit right after I bought a load of both, and after buying and testing the Sagitarrum guard I'm still getting nowhere. I've even tried out the Orion on numerous occasions and it just doesn't pay off.

 

Then I looked across at the ITC lists and we're now a gunline army?! I'm just tired of buying models that don't get me anywhere and fighting an impossible battle. I've only won a single game in weeks and that was against Deathwatch because they've received no love from GW yet.

[Prot]

Yea I have Deathwatch as well and understand that predicament. But I do love the Custodes background and look. From their GW regular line through to the forgeworld stuff.

 

I've been on the fence about an Orion but it's just not appearing to be a sound decision to use one right now. 

 

I just had a game Vs. Tau. I fielded my freshly painted Caladius (which I posted in my thread in this forum). It was ugly. We played Maelstrom and I didn't get first turn, and we had very good terrain. It just didn't matter.

 

I called in Turn three as I was just about tabled. I was using the Rusty 17 plus my two Skorpius tanks with indirect fire. Everyone talks about these tanks like they're amazing... but unless you are playing against Primaris, they aren't that great. 

 

He had a lot of crisis suits that I couldn't dent with the Caladius or Skorpius'. His solo riptide (he turned his list down) just chewed through a ton of my infantry the second he could see it .As usual I was relegated to trying to shoot drones off the table to get some kill points. I think I maybe killed one unit of the stealth suits, but the rest was mostly drones, until I used the Standard to summon in some bikers and I let him have it for a grand total of one turn. 

 

I did as much damage as I possibly could in that second turn, but it wasn't near enough. He simply withdrew with all his fly and I never did play my turn 3 since all I had left was Trajann, 2 Custodian Guard, and the two Skorpius which were so useless, he never fired at them past turn 1 once he realized how little damage they do.

 

He (rightly so) targeted my  Inquisitor Greyfax, wiped her to get rid of my Psyker, and "Terrify" to prevent overwatch. Then took out the Caladius with ease from melta shots.... Oh I forgot in turn 1 he took out all of my visible Admech troops. I had 5 left after his T1 and lost a squad of Guardians after T1.

 

The army somehow feels incredibly dated obviously with what's happened with Marines. I mean.... Aggressors are quite superior to Guardians right now. 

 

But even so I feel it is mandatory that the Forgeworld element remains competitive to boost what the main line of models does not give us. With the legs chopped out of the Forgeworld line, I think this makes for a severe uphill battle even against non-marine match ups. 

[duz_]

You know the first time you play with a newly painted model it does terrible right?

[Mainely Wargamming]

So, not for nothing, but that is just about the worst possible match up for Custodes.  Tau are the pre-eminent shooting army in an edition that is primarily shooting focused.  Unless you are matching up with them through sheer perfect rolls, you aren't going to win that fight.  Bobby Fischer couldn't beat Tau with Custodes.  Even with pure bikes it's ridiculously one sided. 

 

I will say if you want to match off against a fun opponent, I played against a pure Death Knight list, and it was hilarious.  Everything took forever to kill.    

[Prot]

You know the first time you play with a newly painted model it does terrible right?

 

No... no I never heard that before Duz! 

Since I paint about a model a week.... I'm really not helping myself here, am I?

 

I guess that's it for painting stuff! 

 

So, not for nothing, but that is just about the worst possible match up for Custodes.  Tau are the pre-eminent shooting army in an edition that is primarily shooting focused.  Unless you are matching up with them through sheer perfect rolls, you aren't going to win that fight.  Bobby Fischer couldn't beat Tau with Custodes.  Even with pure bikes it's ridiculously one sided. 

 

I will say if you want to match off against a fun opponent, I played against a pure Death Knight list, and it was hilarious.  Everything took forever to kill.    

 

Well... here's the thing. I never tailor my lists, but that being said I had hoped the AdMech Skorpius would be a great adjustment to compensate for the typicaly bad matchups. However, the Caladius felt a bit lost. It really didn't have a role. Not great at killing chaff, and can't do enough damage against Riptides.

 

Also when I saw what my opponents brought, I asked for the Tau matchup. That guy normally plays the fish sept that allows greater range. He asked me if he could go with the 5+ overwatch.  I insisted he do it, because I wanted hard mode.

 

I literally saw no way of winning this match.

 

Confession time: I did beat a multi Riptide army about a month ago. I had first turn, the bikes got dropped on the Magnifica, I had a better screen clearing shooting phase, then wacked a bunch of units. In his turn he killed all but my shield captain on a bike. I used Victor of the Blood Games to make a staggering 10+ saves, and Superior Creation. Then in his charge phase I charged 12" via Stooping Dive and wrecked a few more units to narrowly win the game. 

 

But yes, I realize how bad that match up is, but there are a few now. Especially since marines got better, and Forgeworld got worse.

[duz_]

No... no I never heard that before Duz!

Since I paint about a model a week.... I'm really not helping myself here, am I?

 

 

Wait really? :huh:

 

No wonder you're doing so badly! Especially when you keep repainting entire armies! :P

[swordofmandulis]

Anyone else feel massively deflated with Custodes at the moment? I feel immensely frustrated with my army at the moment, especially with Space Marines everywhere. The nerf to the Caladius and Telemon hit right after I bought a load of both, and after buying and testing the Sagitarrum guard I'm still getting nowhere. I've even tried out the Orion on numerous occasions and it just doesn't pay off.

 

Then I looked across at the ITC lists and we're now a gunline army?! I'm just tired of buying models that don't get me anywhere and fighting an impossible battle. I've only won a single game in weeks and that was against Deathwatch because they've received no love from GW yet.

Totally agree, haven't played in about 6 weeks as my last experience was a supposedly fun game vs a very toned down iron hands list, the cake was when my double caestus telemon made the charge on his redemptor out of deepstrike and then proceeded to get the :cuss beaten out of it over 3 turns while basically unable to take out a model that is half the price. The 'Final' rules for forgeworld Custodes coming out at such proximity to the marine rocketship is just all too convenient for me, funny that 2 units that wreck shiny new marine stuff bet the stuffing knocked out of them when marines need to be sold. I'm super super salty that those 2 things happened basically at the same time. Here's hoping for some sense to prevail and chapter approved will give us something, I'm not that hopeful though.

[Mainely Wargamming]

You can expect that until more people start blocking IH from tournaments (already happened in two large events) you won't see GW make an active change.  Right now people are buying them like hotcakes due to their opness.  

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I legit can't play 40k with custodes anymore only apoc where they are actually terrifying. 40k feels like I am punching up against Giants unless I'm facing some super fluffy army.

 

 

Even then I faced a fluffy deathguard mortarion and plague marine list and the mortal wounds just ruins everything.

 

What good is being the toughest most elite army when you get melted in the psychic phase and mortal wounds just shreds you.

 

 

Thinking about it, so many problems are mortal wounds. They stink and I hate them lol.

[dice4thedicegod]

Looks like (leaked points value changes) death shroud terminators are going to be 42 points (instead of 52). I feel that they were an interesting comparison to our guard being similar durability but balancing being slower with more powerful attacks.

 

Which is a roundabout way of saying, I wonder if our basic guard will get a chunky point reduction?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Looks like (leaked points value changes) death shroud terminators are going to be 42 points (instead of 52). I feel that they were an interesting comparison to our guard being similar durability but balancing being slower with more powerful attacks.

 

Which is a roundabout way of saying, I wonder if our basic guard will get a chunky point reduction?

This has always kinda perplexed me.

 

 

Deathshroud should absolutely be tankier than a normal custodes. Arguably tankier than even or most durable foot solider they are the accumulation of insane corruption and a literal God's blessings. I don't understand how a regular custodes would come close to something as insane as a deathshroud. I am surprised they are dropping their points but would have rather seen them become far more potent than they are. Like 6 wounds insanity.

 

 

And no tanking for Morty that is super antifluff. Lol

 

Regarding our footstodes. I don't think just points drop is our problem. We suffer durability against newmarines.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Hellex_The_Thanatar

[dice4thedicegod]

 

Looks like (leaked points value changes) death shroud terminators are going to be 42 points (instead of 52). I feel that they were an interesting comparison to our guard being similar durability but balancing being slower with more powerful attacks.

Which is a roundabout way of saying, I wonder if our basic guard will get a chunky point reduction?

This has always kinda perplexed me.

Deathshroud should absolutely be tankier than a normal custodes. Arguably tankier than even or most durable foot solider they are the accumulation of insane corruption and a literal God's blessings. I don't understand how a regular custodes would come close to something as insane as a deathshroud. I am surprised they are dropping their points but would have rather seen them become far more potent than they are. Like 6 wounds insanity.

And no tanking for Morty that is super antifluff. Lol

Regarding our footstodes. I don't think just points drop is our problem. We suffer durability against newmarines.

The problem is that GW has responded to marines being a bit of a glass hammer by upping the hammer and still leaving them as glass. Presumably because giving extra attacks and ap didn’t require new data sheets. But that same decision means that other armies will probably get offensive boosts or points cuts. Which is a shame for us as we should be elite (and while we could do with a bit of a boost, a shield captain should be able to match a marine captain in melee performance) but it’s our durability that is an issue since marine 2.0

[dice4thedicegod]

On a related note: I play blood angels as well, and I see leaks that in assault doctrine the angels will get yet another attack.

 

So my sanguinary guard will be rocking 4 encarmine blade attacks at ap-4, to only 3 attacks at ap-3 for custodes guards. I mean...I guess I’ll have some functional golden hosts to move around the table. But poor custodes, getting to feel lackluster! (No wonder the fluff says that Dante will have to save the emperor... the adeptus custodes are up to the job anymore!

[duz_]

Let's not get off track wish listing there's plenty of threads for that currently

[Prot]

I agree the timing and results of the Forgeworld final rules are dubious at best. However, even though everything was turned down, for all we know the pints come down drastically.

 

Let’s face it this would work well for GW and us. Our Telemon is nothing compared to an IH Leviathan, but what if it became possible for you to field two of them? I anticipate with Aggressors being what they are, Custodes Guard also have to drop.

 

Even Trajann is starting to show his age. The auras, the axe.

 

A real biggy is also the ap on Bilt Rifles, and stalker bolt guns. These are truly an elite killer of Custodes...with Rites of fire or whatever, they can rip into bikes pretty good too. These are common, cheap weapons.

 

We won’t see rule changes but with the steep hill Custodes find themselves climbing right now I can see very large reductions possibly.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I agree the timing and results of the Forgeworld final rules are dubious at best. However, even though everything was turned down, for all we know the pints come down drastically.

 

Let’s face it this would work well for GW and us. Our Telemon is nothing compared to an IH Leviathan, but what if it became possible for you to field two of them? I anticipate with Aggressors being what they are, Custodes Guard also have to drop.

 

Even Trajann is starting to show his age. The auras, the axe.

 

A real biggy is also the ap on Bilt Rifles, and stalker bolt guns. These are truly an elite killer of Custodes...with Rites of fire or whatever, they can rip into bikes pretty good too. These are common, cheap weapons.

 

We won’t see rule changes but with the steep hill Custodes find themselves climbing right now I can see very large reductions possibly.

Take two of what? Telemon? You can in newest rules. Doesn't help it at all.

 

The challenge is that point cost wise a single custodes should be roughly 3 primaris Marines worth of durability and DPS. Right now they aren't really either with the change to Marines.

 

Particularly in the shooting phase.

[MustertheCustards]

I think we'd be fine without everybody rerolling everything. Too much stuff gets through, and it makes us significantly less durable

[Prot]

 

I agree the timing and results of the Forgeworld final rules are dubious at best. However, even though everything was turned down, for all we know the pints come down drastically.

 

Let’s face it this would work well for GW and us. Our Telemon is nothing compared to an IH Leviathan, but what if it became possible for you to field two of them? I anticipate with Aggressors being what they are, Custodes Guard also have to drop.

 

Even Trajann is starting to show his age. The auras, the axe.

 

A real biggy is also the ap on Bilt Rifles, and stalker bolt guns. These are truly an elite killer of Custodes...with Rites of fire or whatever, they can rip into bikes pretty good too. These are common, cheap weapons.

 

We won’t see rule changes but with the steep hill Custodes find themselves climbing right now I can see very large reductions possibly.

Take two of what? Telemon? You can in newest rules. Doesn't help it at all.

 

The challenge is that point cost wise a single custodes should be roughly 3 primaris Marines worth of durability and DPS. Right now they aren't really either with the change to Marines.

 

Particularly in the shooting phase.

 

 

I don't mean 'make it legal' to take 2. I mean give point drops across the codex that make fielding two of them in a 2K list more feasible. 

 

That is to say while while we can't really expect any rules changes from CA, points drops could make increasing our body count a realistic balance expectation.

 

Otherwise nothing is going to change here.... unless there is a dabble of powers in the Psychic Awakening.

[MustertheCustards]

The grav tanks are still pretty good with a banner and Valoris, if you can leverage the 60" range and/or stay out of los. They're great for mulching Primaris, monstrous creatures, and T7 and below vehicles. I don't run mine very often, but I'm trying them out with some Pallas. Have a list with both tanks and an Orion, but it's probably a little on the unfriendly side.

[FelipeFlops]

Just had a look through the leaked Custodes page of CA2019. Was only the FW entries shown, GW entries on another page is likely. No changes except for the Galatus which looks like a drop to 130 points, unless they've made the shield cost something now..

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360066-ca-2019-rumors/?p=5436446