Exalted sorcerers

[Skerr]

lol, my wife says I am king of the run on sentence... sorry.

 

To summon a unit of 10 pinks that can split to 20 blues and 20 pairs of brims what do I need to roll?

[Zodd1888]

Yes, you only have to meet the requirements for the pinks. The split effect comes off of the remaining pool of points.

 

Rather than call it a summoning pool, I think I'm going to call it a reserve pool. It serves the purpose of splits, spawns, and summoning so it makes sense to me that way.

[Panzer]

Yes, you only have to meet the requirements for the pinks. The split effect comes off of the remaining pool of points.

 

Rather than call it a summoning pool, I think I'm going to call it a reserve pool. It serves the purpose of splits, spawns, and summoning so it makes sense to me that way.

Just call it what it is. It's reinforcement points (not reserves!). ;)

 

And yes, the splitting etc. would be paid seperately whenever it may occur, just like it would be the case with a regular unit of Horrors. Anything that happens with the summoned unit after the actual summoning has nothing to do with the summoning roll.

[Skerr]

Thank you both! Was not even considering pay as you split. Edited February 23, 2018 by Skerr

[Sonoftherubric21]

That is plausible, but in that case i would prefer ahriman with his 3++, and a prince over the exalted. I can see not using a prince if I decided to use daemons as allies for a herald for a single re-roll. But i prefer not to rely on strategems like cabal since it so situational and the points can disapear quickly. Especially with vets of the long war and webway available. I would much prefer an inherent ability that can be used at least once every psy phase, such as: once per psy phase, ahriman and any exalted sorceror can roll 3d6 and pick two dice for a psy test.

 

I had a recent experience with ahriman using boon on foot and its pretty easy between turn 1-3 to be able to pick +1 to cast. Another option.

 

My main issues with this are Consistency, and Survival. 

 

If something is getting to Ahriman to allow the 3++ to be used that often means he is in DEEEEP trouble and probably dead anyway, or is in combat with something (Another situation you usually dont want him in)  whereas a prince has the stats to really get the damage through, ahrimans a baller in a pinch, but I hesitate to throw arguably the most important model in my standard army list into a situation that could end him up dead, I am very protective of him and my other sorcerers (as any of us should be to be fair lol!) 

 

For myself I tend to focus on the "casting" part of that statement; CONSISTENCY is a huge issue for the Thousand Sons because we are a faction based upon spellpower, the more spells go off the better we are, the more we can buff our units into the stratosphere, all of a sudden the "decent" rubrics become "incredible" ya know what I mean? I hedge my bets with spellcasting, and 3 casters having +1 to casts (2 all the time, and 1 of them only on the first cast) is a very solid way overall of handling it. 

 

My "home turf" Exalted is often taking flickering flames (low cast value) and Prescience (relatively low cast value as well) so giving him the +1 to cast is mostly optional, but I usually still end up doing it as 3 hq's is usually enough.  I like our spells being consistent, and getting a 6+, 5+ or 4+ spell to go off is far statistically easier then a 7+ or god forbid more. Luckily we have Gaze of Fate to farm, as well as command re rolls and of course for those "big whammy" spells we can use cabalistic focus. 

 

Thats probably why I dont care to much about princes (other then the fact that my meta is FLOODED with them) is that my army tends to be mid range and VERY casty, other then tzaaangors and enlightened and my Seers bane Exalted I dont really "want" to be in combat, so I often save the points on a prince and instead take a seers bane exalted to back up some of my more..... Close-encounter units.  Its worked so far, and with how solid exalted are now comparatively I never have been thrashed off the table since our codex came out.  Which is honestly all I ever wanted from a dex. 

 

TL,DR: we are a very "swingy" faction due to dice being fickle and casting having a chance to fail or go wrong, I like to hedge my bets. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Sonoftherubric21

[Paladin777]

Agreed. And for the record, the combat effectiveness of a diabolic str buffed two sword seer’s band exalted (henceforth known as Ginsu-cadabra) is roughly on par with the likes of Dante and the Sanguinor, if a bit squishier.

[Skerr]

I dont have the dex in front of me, is flickering flames good for one round or rest of battle.

 

edit, nevermind.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Skerr

[Ahzek451]

I can't necessarily agree about ahriman. Thats another problem i have with exalted. They can dish it but they surely can't take it on a 5++. Ahriman on foot with some boon boosts and farmed re-rolls makes for such a beast. For crying out loud he was able to take morty down by himsef. And the way I play him it feels very deceiving. Everybody sees magnus and freaks out. Most people don't suspect Ahriman with the right combos to roll up amd decimate whilst still being able to take a punch.

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

Exalteds are better for MSU armies 5 man Rubrics with 10 man Tzaangor squads. The points saved make up for the points spent on having multiple units of Rubrics.

 

At least thats my take.

[CornishMike]

The issue is, if you’re going for a cheap hq, why not just take a base sourceror?

 

That’s the question a lot of people are asking...

[Heliomanes]

They are in a strange spot, between Ahriman and the daemon princes on one side, and the normal sorcerers on the other. Still, while not an optimal choice, they seem to have a use. Unlike Ahriman, they can carry and use relics, and we have some really strong ones. Unlike the daemon princes, who might be more inclined towards offensive play, they can be quite content standing around in a large group of friendly units, buffing them with aura and spells - and they do this a lot better than normal sorcerers.

Again, not trying to fool myself into saying they are an optimal tournament choice, but they seem to have a place.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The issue is, if you’re going for a cheap hq, why not just take a base sourceror?

 

That’s the question a lot of people are asking...

RR1's aura, and better all around combat stats. 

 

its 17 points.  a very small point differential I have the opposite reaction; barring a 500 point game, why the heck would you EVER take a basic sorcerer HQ over an Exalted? 

 

Exalteds are 121 including gear, our base Sorcerer is 104 with gear.  IMHO the extra wound, and the RR1's aura alone is worth 17 points.  Everything else is a bonus. The RR1's aura is stellar especially if you plan on spreading out in most games. (I usually have forward and closer to deployment groups so its important to have several auras on the table) 

[Skerr]

Gotta agree with Son. The better statline and aura is worth it too me.

[Minsc]

The issue is, if you’re going for a cheap hq, why not just take a base sourceror?

 

That’s the question a lot of people are asking...

 

While the Exalted is in a odd place ("Why not just take a DP/Ahriman?"), the humle Sorcerer is in a even worse place, because when looking at the Sorcerer I always go "Why not just take an Exalted"?

For a measly 17 pts you get +1 WS, +1BS, +1W, +1A and most importantly, the RR1-aura.

 

In the end however, both the Exalted and the regular Sorcerer suffers from the same thing; redundancy. 

Being somewhat cheap is their only selling point compared to our other HQ's, other than that there's nothing unique about them:

- Ahriman has extra powers/denies, a better invuln, a better weapon and +1 to manifest/deny.

- Daemon Princes are power houses in combat, while offering the same aura/casting prowess as Exalteds.

- Terminator Sorcerers have a familiar that helps them cast.

 

I really wish that Exalted Sorcerers offered something unique over our other HQ's, but alas they don't.

It's quite pathetic that they're not better psykers than regular Sorcerers, and worse psykers than Terminator Sorcerers.  

Heck, I'd settle for a 4++, but they can't even have that, being stuck at the same 5++ as the Sorcerers/TA Sorcerers...

 

 

[MillionsSons]

That is plausible, but in that case i would prefer ahriman with his 3++, and a prince over the exalted. I can see not using a prince if I decided to use daemons as allies for a herald for a single re-roll. But i prefer not to rely on strategems like cabal since it so situational and the points can disapear quickly. Especially with vets of the long war and webway available. I would much prefer an inherent ability that can be used at least once every psy phase, such as: once per psy phase, ahriman and any exalted sorceror can roll 3d6 and pick two dice for a psy test.

 

I had a recent experience with ahriman using boon on foot and its pretty easy between turn 1-3 to be able to pick +1 to cast. Another option.

 

So when we do a daemonic ritual we need to pay the points ? Then why not directly put the models on the battle fields in turn 1, instead of relying on a roll to summon them + mobility constrains from the sorcerer?

[Panzer]

 

That is plausible, but in that case i would prefer ahriman with his 3++, and a prince over the exalted. I can see not using a prince if I decided to use daemons as allies for a herald for a single re-roll. But i prefer not to rely on strategems like cabal since it so situational and the points can disapear quickly. Especially with vets of the long war and webway available. I would much prefer an inherent ability that can be used at least once every psy phase, such as: once per psy phase, ahriman and any exalted sorceror can roll 3d6 and pick two dice for a psy test.

I had a recent experience with ahriman using boon on foot and its pretty easy between turn 1-3 to be able to pick +1 to cast. Another option.

 

 

So when we do a daemonic ritual we need to pay the points ? Then why not directly put the models on the battle fields in turn 1, instead of relying on a roll to summon them + mobility constrains from the sorcerer?

Because that's what you're going to do most of the time. Summoning is queationable at best and usually just a subpar choice compared to taking a cheap Daemon detachment. ^^

[Skerr]

The intent, as I see it, is to pay for what you need as strategy and circumstance of the game dictate.

 

Rather than start with a fixed number of units, the detatchment, I summon something that i really need. Pinks if I am holding objectives, screamers if I need more cc,flamers for thinning etc... I am not stuck with the units i started with and may not need.

 

There are issues though, as mentioned, I may not use all my points, I should probably spend 1 cp for the strat to maximize and not peril, i dont think u can summon if you move, deep strike etc...

summoning is a cool idea that may need some tweaking. I myself have not used it though want to try it out.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Skerr

[Raven1]

The intent, as I see it, is to pay for what you need as strategy and circumstance of the game dictate.

 

I think that the flexibility is point of the rule as much as it is a fluffy mechanic. However, i think people are put off by the requirement to roll dice to get what you need rather if you put something in reserve it can come down generally when and where as opposed to thier being another step.

[Skerr]

I agree, as mentioned in my post it could be tweaked and it is a bit of a gamble.

 

l love the idea though.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Skerr

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

The issue is, if you’re going for a cheap hq, why not just take a base sourceror?

 

That’s the question a lot of people are asking...

 

While the Exalted is in a odd place ("Why not just take a DP/Ahriman?"), the humle Sorcerer is in a even worse place, because when looking at the Sorcerer I always go "Why not just take an Exalted"?

For a measly 17 pts you get +1 WS, +1BS, +1W, +1A and most importantly, the RR1-aura.

 

In the end however, both the Exalted and the regular Sorcerer suffers from the same thing; redundancy. 

Being somewhat cheap is their only selling point compared to our other HQ's, other than that there's nothing unique about them:

- Ahriman has extra powers/denies, a better invuln, a better weapon and +1 to manifest/deny.

- Daemon Princes are power houses in combat, while offering the same aura/casting prowess as Exalteds.

- Terminator Sorcerers have a familiar that helps them cast.

 

I really wish that Exalted Sorcerers offered something unique over our other HQ's, but alas they don't.

It's quite pathetic that they're not better psykers than regular Sorcerers, and worse psykers than Terminator Sorcerers.  

Heck, I'd settle for a 4++, but they can't even have that, being stuck at the same 5++ as the Sorcerers/TA Sorcerers...

 

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much everything said above. Some of the design decisions with exalted; while overall good do have the "odd" slot spot on.  

 

Still a good unit IMHO, but the fact that a termie sorcerer (while being more expensive...to be fair!) is also a better caster for 50% of their spell casts..... waaaaaat?

 

I mean literally just "exalted may take spell famililars' at a solid 130 points for that (Assuming same price as termie familiar) and youd see exalted frequently from lots of players. Or a you said an invul boost to match Ahriman or our DP.  Very odd design choice. 

[Panzer]

 

 

The issue is, if you’re going for a cheap hq, why not just take a base sourceror?

 

That’s the question a lot of people are asking...

 

While the Exalted is in a odd place ("Why not just take a DP/Ahriman?"), the humle Sorcerer is in a even worse place, because when looking at the Sorcerer I always go "Why not just take an Exalted"?

For a measly 17 pts you get +1 WS, +1BS, +1W, +1A and most importantly, the RR1-aura.

 

In the end however, both the Exalted and the regular Sorcerer suffers from the same thing; redundancy. 

Being somewhat cheap is their only selling point compared to our other HQ's, other than that there's nothing unique about them:

- Ahriman has extra powers/denies, a better invuln, a better weapon and +1 to manifest/deny.

- Daemon Princes are power houses in combat, while offering the same aura/casting prowess as Exalteds.

- Terminator Sorcerers have a familiar that helps them cast.

 

I really wish that Exalted Sorcerers offered something unique over our other HQ's, but alas they don't.

It's quite pathetic that they're not better psykers than regular Sorcerers, and worse psykers than Terminator Sorcerers.  

Heck, I'd settle for a 4++, but they can't even have that, being stuck at the same 5++ as the Sorcerers/TA Sorcerers...

 

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much everything said above. Some of the design decisions with exalted; while overall good do have the "odd" slot spot on.  

 

Still a good unit IMHO, but the fact that a termie sorcerer (while being more expensive...to be fair!) is also a better caster for 50% of their spell casts..... waaaaaat?

 

I mean literally just "exalted may take spell famililars' at a solid 130 points for that (Assuming same price as termie familiar) and youd see exalted frequently from lots of players. Or a you said an invul boost to match Ahriman or our DP.  Very odd design choice. 

 

Yeah but exalted don't have a familiar in their box. Only the Terminator Sorcerer has. New GW logic. :P

[CornishMike]

Maybe GW are concerned that a familiar would fall off the disc? :p

[The Yncarne]

I’m reusing a SOT for a termie lord. Can’t think of a better familiar for Tzeentch than a dice.

[Raven1]

Yeah but exalted don't have a familiar in their box. Only the Terminator Sorcerer has. New GW logic. :P

Nevermind they sell a box of miniatures titled chaos familiars so some such. That and the exalted box comes with a jump pack/flying dude and there is no option for that either.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Raven1

[Ahzek451]

The rubric squad doesn't have a plasma pistol in the box either, yet its an option. No excuse from gw then to not allow familiars for other units like exalts.