Tactica: Scarab Occult Terminators

[Prot]

Scarab Occult unit reviews:

 

Basing this on playing results, and not a lot of theory-hammer (never been a fan of it), I think people are going to actually like these terminators... IF you love terminators.

 

In every army I've played, competitively, or semi-competitively at least, I've gravitated towards Terminators and asked; How do I make this work?

 

So far my favorite terminators are Death Guard variants with access to combi-weapons. T5, and FnP make this an exceptionally resilient, and flexible unit. All is Dust is nice, but situational. I wish it was more of a 'feel no pain' mechanic personally but it is a unique power for us, but I find educated opponents rarely 'waste' the common fire power on Scarab Occult that would otherwise benefit from All is Dust.

 

(My second favourite used to be the Cataphractii Ultra variant.)

 

Loadouts and Psychic Consideration: (I won't repeat what's already common codex knowledge) They basically break down into tactics.

 

- A straight 5 man squad is solid, netting you a built in 2 wound Sorc, but it needs support. The problem with "All is Dust" is that it affects a small pool of weaponry. Something like "Disgustingly Resilient" is game wide, even mortal wounds can be saved by it. For this reason I am not a big fan of solo 5 man squads. Multiples are good, and offer tactical options.

 

- If you're goofy about Terminators like I am, a 10 man wall of these guys is maximizing drops (to increase your chance of going first) while maximizing your psychic potential on survival powers. Think of Glamour of Tzeentch, or Weaver if Fates or offensively speaking; Veterans of the Long War and Prescience for example.

 

- Heavy Warpflamers are a pretty good idea, but the funny thing I find is it's REALLY hard to do this option when you're probably within 12" with your AP-2 super bolter anyway. Here the strength of the shot, and the fact it overwatches well is the real beauty of the weapon.  BUT is it worth 20 points difference in the two weapons for that luxury?

 

- Hellfyre Missiles are a must. You MUST take this weapon because it's going to fill a huge gap in the army plus with 8th edition's split fire, there's no wasting of the precious S8 shots.

 

- The Soulreaper cannon is something I used a lot in 7th edition. I think they look super cool, and since there are so few options, I often took them. So far in 8th I have found it just unnecessary use of points. We're looking at a 12 point difference to get one extra strength, and one extra AP, and 2 more shots. It's something I add in at the end of making a list when I simply can't fill 12 points otherwise. Considering the nominal difference this weapon has in actual play, I probably would have placed it at a 6 point upgrade to the Inferno Combi.

 

 

The Scarab Occult Sorcerer in this codex gets the advantage of picking up a 'real' power. Unless you're using Magnus, I find this unit, and Rubrics are pretty good targets for Weaver of Fates. 

 

Tactical Considerations:

 

I think a big trap to newer Thousand Sons players is taking a lot of shiny elite units, and not having enough board coverage or ways to keep the elite, expensive units alive. (I'm not talking about Magnus here, this is about expensive Astartes units.)

 

Consider layers of back up, and plan your counter assaults. I have used Tzaangors since they were a legal choice for us. I still think a unit (any size) with blades is the number once choice in the codex for me to counter my diminished footprint size by taking units like Scarab Occult Terminators. Consider this when making a list.

 

Keeping Terminators relevant in your games.

 

There are two major reasons I personally think prevent Terminators from being a 'tier 1' option in competitive environments: One is the amount of multi damage weapons as armies get developed is very high. For example an Ork Boy with a big choppa kills a Scarab Occult Terminator with a failed save in the same way a Rubric marine would die from the same wound. (All is Dust is negated in this scenario, and the weapon does a flat 2 damage).

 

The second reason I think we can now alleviate: movement. Terminators are often stuck in limbo. That is to say 9" away from were you'd probably LIKE to be, but unable to get anywhere quickly. If you get the chance to go after what you want, great, but chances are they may be out of the rest of the game if you're playing against a savvy opponent with good board control.

 

In this codex we get the Black Matter Crystal relic which combines with "Warp Time" to keep the unit relevant throughout the game. I love the Crystal, and I think it's something that allows me to keep playing Scarab Occult. It's my favourite way of using the relic.

 

Let's hear your experiences with the Thousand Sons' Scarab Occult Terminators.

 

 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Oooo Good start for the article; I actually have only had one game with the Scarab Occult this Codex. 

It was against a friends marine army, they dropped behind, got a warp time up, opened fire with Vets of the Long War (5 man unit, both gun upgrades) and put every shot into a nearby contemptor dreadnought, bringing that sucker down to 3 wounds remaining from full health, charged a squad and a rhino, murdered 10 marines, finished off the dread, AND damage the rhino....the rhino then retreated and his hellblasters plugged them off the table the following turn. Plasma is mean to all terminators. 

Note that in scenarios regarding T8 models, the soul reaper cannons use is warranted, and statistically advantageous. I tend to take it as standard as I think the 12 points is generally better on them, but I can certainly argue that either way.  However: if the target models on the table are T8 or more....the soul reaper stands a good chance of dealing damage that will stick, it may not be much but each wound counts.  This only gets more extreme if you include VOTLW, wounding a T8 model on 4's, with -3 to armor. Something to keep in mind! 

 

Also against MEQ (T4 models) we need 2's to wound, with -3, it can grind up a squad by itself in an MSU heavy environment. 

 

[Raven1]

absolutely correct on paper SO dont look so hot but mine have anyways done good work. If you pick your targets right, and i mean pick on something fleshy holding an objective you can pulvarize. Hands down deepstrike is the way to go, and you have to pick the right spot because they will not catch anything else the rest of the game. Hellfyre is great and it adds that high strength/low AP we are sorely missing. A second gun SRC or heavy warpflamer is generally for me a do i have extra points. If I do I use it, if not then it stays at home.

 

I think "All is Dust" on these guys is almost a waste. You cant improve past the 2+ save and anything that gets me using an invulnerable save or is modifying my armor I usually don't get the +1 anyway.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Raven1

[Ahzek451]

Well thats just it, any weapon thats normally good at taking out any terminators will also likely ignore all is dust. I have yet to try 10-man squads but it sounds appealing with stacking abilities from a vortex beast or power. Rush the beasts forward and have it just in range of a big blob of termies. Chaotic infusion? Yes please.

[Minsc]

You forgot the biggest pro of the SOT's Prot: They are the finest looking model's in GW's range. ;)

[Skerr]

I have always done great w Sots providing

 

I choose my deepstrike target carefully

My sots str is better than my targets toughness

 

With new buffs available to str, votlw and all the other movement goodies these guys can be be special purpose pricision scapels.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Skerr

[Sonoftherubric21]

I fully intend in larger lists with lots of scarab Occult to have a Vortex beast bringing up the rear, that +1 str aura is MONEY on scarab occult. any further buff they go from "Competent" to "Ridiculous" lol.

[Sonoftherubric21]

You forgot the biggest pro of the SOT's Prot: They are the finest looking model's in GW's range.

 

Hah: you mean OUR range is one of the best looking things to come out of GW? Fixed it for you! 

 

 

Obviously super biased but I love our entire range, sorcerers, goats, termies, Magnus, Rubricae. All of it! 

[Minsc]

 

 

 

Obviously super biased but I love our entire range, sorcerers, goats, termies, Magnus, Rubricae. All of it! 

 

 

Aye our range is great. Main reason I started with Thousand Sons back in 3.5.

 

I like everything except for the Mutalith, which given my latest thread shouldn't be a surprised. :P

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

 

 

Obviously super biased but I love our entire range, sorcerers, goats, termies, Magnus, Rubricae. All of it! 

 

 

Aye our range is great. Main reason I started with Thousand Sons back in 3.5.

 

I like everything except for the Mutalith, which given my latest thread shouldn't be a surprised.

 

 

In person I like it for the most part, but I do admit its a tad jarring considering the rest of the list is daemon engines and tanks, then you toss in a fully fleshed (hah!) out model and youve all of a sudden got something that clashes in the list visually, an interesting choice by GW. 

 

Of course I must be psychic....because once I saw the ridiculous price tag for the model I *KNEW* with factual clarity it would have great rules....low and behold some people are thinking up tourney lists with 3-6 of them.... Go. Figure. 

[Minsc]

 

Of course I must be psychic....because once I saw the ridiculous price tag for the model I *KNEW* with factual clarity it would have great rules....low and behold some people are thinking up tourney lists with 3-6 of them.... Go. Figure. 

 

If we're honest though, it was expensive (money-wise) when Warriors of Chaos got it back in 8th Ed, and it wasn't really that good.

I remember thinking "phew" when I realized that I didn't like the model nor it's rules.

 

It's 40k-rules are brilliant however.

 

Edit: Not to derail the thread, but we CSM-players now more than anyone else that new models (or expensive model's) doesn't necessarily equal great rules. 

Looking at you Mutilators. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Minsc

[Kite Senet]

You forgot the biggest pro of the SOT's Prot: They are the finest looking model's in GW's range.

*shudder*

 

I used to like the Scarab Occult Terminator models before I actually got some, but that join between the torso and the legs is a nightmare to assemble--I honestly still haven't a clue how it fits together. Suffering through the mess of assembling a unit of them soured me thoroughly to SOTs. But I really just need to get over it, and get that year's worth of dust off those models, finally paint them up, and get them on the table.

[DominikB]

 

 

 

Of course I must be psychic....because once I saw the ridiculous price tag for the model I *KNEW* with factual clarity it would have great rules....low and behold some people are thinking up tourney lists with 3-6 of them.... Go. Figure.

 

If we're honest though, it was expensive (money-wise) when Warriors of Chaos got it back in 8th Ed, and it wasn't really that good.

I remember thinking "phew" when I realized that I didn't like the model nor it's rules.

 

It's 40k-rules are brilliant however.

 

Edit: Not to derail the thread, but we CSM-players now more than anyone else that new models (or expensive model's) doesn't necessarily equal great rules.

Looking at you Mutilators.

I agree...I wanted them to be good! Also I wish I could buy a mutalith, but I literally can’t from GW :S

 

With VotLW, I feel a unit of 10 could be viable with all that shooting then charging something (with the helm of warptime)

[Archaeinox]

I'm just not convinced that the Soulreaper is worth it 90% of the time. The 10% of the time where you might play a fluffy game against a friendly opponent with a balanced list in a relaxed setting, you should add the Soulreaper to a 5man squad yes. If they errata Rubric Marines to be able to take a Soulreaper in sub-10man units, then they are the guys who should have one at all times.

 

Against scarier opponents, I believe in TWO options:

 

10 Scarabs with 2 missiles

 

3x units of 5 Scarabs with Missile

 

Since I have only really played vs. Custodes the few times I've ran this new book, I can say this... It sucks when you take a charge from Allarus terminators. If you can, hold off bringing the Scarabs in until you know where the Allarus will drop and definitely stay away from the Jetbikes. They will remove the terminators from play

Edited February 5, 2018 by Archaeinox

[Quixus]

What about adding a land raider to the list with a 5 man SoT unit? it gives you a few more lascannon shots (which are hard to come by for 1k Sons) and helps with the mobility after deep strike.

[Minsc]

Land Raiders are trash in this edition imo. (sadly because I love the model)

 

They pay for resilience they don't have (a lascannon barely cares if youre T7 3+ like a Rhino or T8 2+ like a Land Raider) and they pay for weapons you will barely get to use if you're using it as a transport (because any half-decent opponent will force you to fall back if you get close to his units = no shooting next time), and if you're staying back and using the weapons then you're not using the transport capacity.

 

Basically 8th Ed. Land Raider is a jack-of-all-trades gone horribly wrong.
If it had the rule that allows you to fall back and shoot it would be decent. But now they're just...bleh. 

 

Instead of a Land Raider I'd just take another 5 fully equipped SOT's and still have over 100 pts to spare.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Minsc

[Withershadow]

I agree about the Soulreaper being a poor option on Terminators. You're actually only paying for the strength and AP upgrade, because the combi-bolter also gets 4 shots within 12", which is guaranteed with Teleport Strike.

 

Another potential reason to not build them with the Soulreaper is if you use the modes in 30K as well, where it is not an option. You can play off the missiles as just extra decoration since TS rock the big hats, but it's harder to say that giant chaingun is just another stormbolter. :P

Edited February 5, 2018 by Withershadow

[Paladin777]

I guess I’m in the minority, but I’ve never regretted taking the soulreaper cannon on my SOT’s. The extra punch it has vs MEQ’s and TEQ’s has always seemed worth it to me.

[Skerr]

I can't help it either.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I guess I’m in the minority, but I’ve never regretted taking the soulreaper cannon on my SOT’s. The extra punch it has vs MEQ’s and TEQ’s has always seemed worth it to me.

 

I am right there with you, that 1 pip of str makes a big difference in quite a few circumstances (T4 targets, our prime targets..), t8 targets, and T5 targets, as well as -3 ap....usually worth it. 

[Minsc]

I too take the Soulreapers whenever I can. If for looks if nothing else. ;)

[BoomWolf]

Seems like we are the majority then.

Soulreaper is a practical auto-take.

 

13 points for that added S and AP, plus the potential to 4-shot at range, is just worth it.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Seems like we are the majority then.

Soulreaper is a practical auto-take.

 

13 points for that added S and AP, plus the potential to 4-shot at range, is just worth it.

One of the nice things you can do with SOT now is teleport in, shoot one unit in close with bolter fire, shoot another unit further back out of Rapid Fire range with Soulreapers/Hellfyres, wound the crap out of all of it with VotLW, and then charge something ELSE. I run dual Soulreaper most times, though I sometimes drop in one Heavy Warpflamer on those days that I really miss the Burning Brand of Skalathrax.

[Skerr]

I have been looking to add the HWF but it is expensive, still want to try it though.

[themortalgod]

I think the mistake most people make with SOTs is that they think of them like normal terminators with some perks. But to fully build a strong strategy with them you need to more or less evaluate their strengths as a unit.

 

SOT compared to a normal terminator:

 

- Significantly stronger range threat (ap -2 bolters, 2 heavy weapons per 5, smite). Plus can move and fire heavy wpns at full BS. (The exception being mass combi-plasma perhaps but those are really expensive)

- Significantly weaker melee threat (power weapons vs power fists)

- More resilient (All is dust + can get -1 to be hit with sorcerer if you want or +1 invuln)

 

With this in mind it becomes a waste to use them like normal terminators who want to drop in at 9" shoot and assault. If you assault and are not basically 100% sure you will be able to get back out of assault before your next shooting phase you are sacrificing powerful shooting for mediocre melee. 

 

Thus, my strategy for my SOT is to maximize their shooting and use them as a back line board presence that helps control zone and nullify enemy vulnerable threats. My favorite move is to deep strike them onto a building or in cover with decent LOS visibility. The goal is to have enemies about 12" while making it a chore for your opponent to have to go out of their way to come get you. In cover, against D1, SOTs have a 0+ save which means even against AP -2 you are effectively still getting a 2+ save. Add in that -1 to hit power and these guys take a significant amount of firepower to remove from the backline. 

 

This is also why I really like the soulreaper cannon. At rapid fire range it isn't amazingly better than the combi bolter, but often I find that once I erase a unit or two in rapid fire range, if my terminators are still alive and unengaged the longer range of the soulreaper pays dividends. Also S5 is  significant boost. There is a lot of T5 in this game and the difference between 4+ and 5+ to wound is significant. 

I find that units of 5 is key for this sort of strategy. At 10 the unit just becomes too bulky to easily dump into cover and since it now represents 25% of your army the opponent feels like it is certainly worth the investment to simply run over and engage you in melee to shut down a quarter of your shooting phase. I'd rather 2 units of 5 than a single unit of 10 any day. Though personally, I doubt I'd ever run more than a single unit of 5. Just too big of a points investment. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by themortalgod