Possible Salamanders Convert Inquriy

[Aothaine]

Hello everyone!

 

So I have been jumping around a lot recently trying to decide where I want my home to be. I am almost solidly decided on Blood Angels but they don't have access to one of my favorite models produced by GW. The Centurion. So I was looking around and found that I really enjoy the chapter static, color scheme as well as the "holy protector" aspect of the Salamanders. I really feel they are not promoted enough. 

 

I wanted to get more of a feel of the Salamanders as a chapter/legion and I was wondering if you could recommend any books for me to read to get more of a idea about the chapter, their rituals, their beliefs, etc.

 

Thank you!

[Hellrender]

The salamander omnibus by nick kyme isbthe only BL series on salamanders i think. So i would start there.

[Aothaine]

The salamander omnibus by nick kyme isbthe only BL series on salamanders i think. So i would start there.

 

 

Will do. Thank you!

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Salamanders Omnibus is a good starting point. And then there are a few Horus Heresy books like Old Earth that star Vulkan. You could also read what little lore there is in the codex about the chapter and read Lexicon and wikia's about them (even 1d4chan likes the salamanders).

 

Simply put, the Salamanders are the most 'human' space marine chapter. It has no known successors (or at least no acknowledged successors), with only 2 canon chapters claiming to be successors but the Salamanders (but there is a chaos warband called the Dragon Warriors that claims there are more successor chapters to the salamanders).

 

For a loyalist legion with a very famous primarch, the Salamanders have almost no lore about them (when compared to other loyalist legions like the Imperial Fist, Ultra Marines and Space Wolves). And outside of the search for the relics of Vulkan, there is almost nothing remarkable about them besides their radiation black skin and red eyes. Though they tend to be larger than standard astartes and more resistant to fire/lava, they get no special campaigns or events around them. Though they did help with Armageddon they are mostly missing in major events.

 

If you are looking for official special models for the Salamanders, there is OOP (out of print/production) Chaplain Xavier (you can usually find a couple for sale on ebay). There is Vulkan He'Stan that you can get in finecast from GW. You have a special dreadnought Bray'arth from Forgeworld. The only special unit the Salamanders have is the Firedrakes, which is pretty much fancy assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields. Horus Heresy era had the Pyroclasts but other than that the Salamanders are a fairly codex force.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Saxxon the Dragoon

[Epsolonofthe5th]

From a gaming pov, I am in love with how well the lore translates to the Salamanders chapter tactic. A reroll for every unit every time it fights (hits and wounds)

 

I think a Salamander force with Primaris, terminators, devs and assault elements would be a thing of stunning brutal effency. The thought of having a t6 captain also helps

 

As GW killed my entire BA (5th company) force I would be looking at those sons of Vulcan if SM were to be next army....

Edited February 11, 2018 by Epsolonofthe5th

[Aothaine]

Salamanders Omnibus is a good starting point. And then there are a few Horus Heresy books like Old Earth that star Vulkan. You could also read what little lore there is in the codex about the chapter and read Lexicon and wikia's about them (even 1d4chan likes the salamanders).

 

Simply put, the Salamanders are the most 'human' space marine chapter. It has no known successors (or at least no acknowledged successors), with only 2 canon chapters claiming to be successors but the Salamanders (but there is a chaos warband called the Dragon Warriors that claims there are more successor chapters to the salamanders).

 

For a loyalist legion with a very famous primarch, the Salamanders have almost no lore about them (when compared to other loyalist legions like the Imperial Fist, Ultra Marines and Space Wolves). And outside of the search for the relics of Vulkan, there is almost nothing remarkable about them besides their radiation black skin and red eyes. Though they tend to be larger than standard astartes and more resistant to fire/lava, they get no special campaigns or events around them. Though they did help with Armageddon they are mostly missing in major events.

 

If you are looking for official special models for the Salamanders, there is OOP (out of print/production) Chaplain Xavier (you can usually find a couple for sale on ebay). There is Vulkan He'Stan that you can get in finecast from GW. You have a special dreadnought Bray'arth from Forgeworld. The only special unit the Salamanders have is the Firedrakes, which is pretty much fancy assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields. Horus Heresy era had the Pyroclasts but other than that the Salamanders are a fairly codex force.

 

Thank you for those extra tid bits. I'm still really undecided. I bought a lot into the Blood Angels and read Devastation of Baal but I'm having second thoughts and I'm not entirely sure Blood Angels are where I want to go.

 

 

From a gaming pov, I am in love with how well the lore translates to the Salamanders chapter tactic. A reroll for every unit every time it fights (hits and wounds)

 

I think a Salamander force with Primaris, terminators, devs and assault elements would be a thing of stunning brutal effency. The thought of having a t6 captain also helps

 

As GW killed my entire BA (5th company) force I would be looking at those sons of Vulcan if SM were to be next army....

 

For sure. You can actually buff up the Salamander Captain to near Custodian Captain levels.

 

Captain in Gravis

Chapter Relic +1T, Chapter Tactic +1S, Might of Heroes (+1 S/T/Attack), Psychic Fortress (4+ FNP), Iron Halo 4+ Invlun

 

Makes him S6, T7, A6 with a 3+,4++, 4+++ and he auto passes morale checks. Pretty scary stuff imho.

 

Only investing a librarian into him really. Which isn't so bad because you can always just buff a different unit with the librarian if you wanted. With is gauntlet he is hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s, then wounding vehicles on 3s. Which isn't too bad. But you would rather use the MC power sword against characters. Will make for some sweet duels when he drops 6 hits on the enemy wounding on 3s most likely with 2 damage each and -3 AP forcing them into their invlun saves.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Aothaine

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

From a gaming pov, I am in love with how well the lore translates to the Salamanders chapter tactic. A reroll for every unit every time it fights (hits and wounds)

 

I think a Salamander force with Primaris, terminators, devs and assault elements would be a thing of stunning brutal effency. The thought of having a t6 captain also helps

 

As GW killed my entire BA (5th company) force I would be looking at those sons of Vulcan if SM were to be next army....

 

For sure. You can actually buff up the Salamander Captain to near Custodian Captain levels.

 

Captain in Gravis

Chapter Relic +1T, Chapter Tactic +1S, Might of Heroes (+1 S/T/Attack), Psychic Fortress (4+ FNP), Iron Halo 4+ Invlun

 

Makes him S6, T7, A6 with a 3+,4++, 4+++ and he auto passes morale checks. Pretty scary stuff imho.

 

Only investing a librarian into him really. Which isn't so bad because you can always just buff a different unit with the librarian if you wanted. With is gauntlet he is hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s, then wounding vehicles on 3s. Which isn't too bad. But you would rather use the MC power sword against characters. Will make for some sweet duels when he drops 6 hits on the enemy wounding on 3s most likely with 2 damage each and -3 AP forcing them into their invlun saves.

 

Thats getting into soup level territory there, bordering onto heretical if you arent playing tournaments. Though you technically arent wrong and you could do all this it just doesn't feel very Salamander like (especially outside of a tourny setting). I would say go and consult your chaplain to see if this is codex supported, but depending on your chapter *cough* black templars *cough* they wouldnt have a problem with this (if they actually used psykers).

 

Another tip, if you plan on going Salamanders and you plan on running land raider redeemers, bring a tech marine for each land raider. They are too damn expensive and there are too many anti tank weapons out there (especially skitaari dune crawlers) that will eat them up before you get into range of the flamers, you would be better off deep striking the terminators instead of trying to transport them in a land raider.

[Kallas]

Saxxon, how is that verging on soup? That's a Salamanders Captain and a Salamanders Librarian... Damn that WAAC Aothaine :P

[Aothaine]

Saxxon, how is that verging on soup? That's a Salamanders Captain and a Salamanders Librarian... Damn that WAAC Aothaine

 

What is wrong with a powerful captain? ^_^ He isn't as bad as Cpt. Smashypants from the Blood Angels. Though you could make him nearly as bad if you switch him to a normal captain with jp + Thunder Hammer and give the librarian a jp and then deep strike them in. But, as far as I know, Salamanders don't have a way to guarantee the charge so I think the Captain in Gravis is better.

 

 

 

 

From a gaming pov, I am in love with how well the lore translates to the Salamanders chapter tactic. A reroll for every unit every time it fights (hits and wounds)

 

I think a Salamander force with Primaris, terminators, devs and assault elements would be a thing of stunning brutal effency. The thought of having a t6 captain also helps

 

As GW killed my entire BA (5th company) force I would be looking at those sons of Vulcan if SM were to be next army....

 

For sure. You can actually buff up the Salamander Captain to near Custodian Captain levels.

 

Captain in Gravis

Chapter Relic +1T, Chapter Tactic +1S, Might of Heroes (+1 S/T/Attack), Psychic Fortress (4+ FNP), Iron Halo 4+ Invlun

 

Makes him S6, T7, A6 with a 3+,4++, 4+++ and he auto passes morale checks. Pretty scary stuff imho.

 

Only investing a librarian into him really. Which isn't so bad because you can always just buff a different unit with the librarian if you wanted. With is gauntlet he is hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s, then wounding vehicles on 3s. Which isn't too bad. But you would rather use the MC power sword against characters. Will make for some sweet duels when he drops 6 hits on the enemy wounding on 3s most likely with 2 damage each and -3 AP forcing them into their invlun saves.

 

Thats getting into soup level territory there, bordering onto heretical if you arent playing tournaments. Though you technically arent wrong and you could do all this it just doesn't feel very Salamander like (especially outside of a tourny setting). I would say go and consult your chaplain to see if this is codex supported, but depending on your chapter *cough* black templars *cough* they wouldnt have a problem with this (if they actually used psykers).

 

Another tip, if you plan on going Salamanders and you plan on running land raider redeemers, bring a tech marine for each land raider. They are too damn expensive and there are too many anti tank weapons out there (especially skitaari dune crawlers) that will eat them up before you get into range of the flamers, you would be better off deep striking the terminators instead of trying to transport them in a land raider.

 

 

A little confused about the comment here. I don't recall reading anything about Salamanders not liking Librarians. I mean.. it really isn't even that bad. You would just buff your units until it is time for your Captain to duel someone. Also, I am mainly thinking about running Primaris only initially anyway. 

 

Thank you for the tip about the land raiders. I'll keep it in mind for sure! 

 

I'm not to keen on the Salamander flamer stratagem. It is nice but it would be more useful if they could take entire units of flamer wielding mad-men. As far as I know only Blood Angels can take heavy flamer Dev squads which limits the stratagem to the all flamer land raiders.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

I was only stating that its starting to go into soup territory only using your librarian to buff up your gravis captain (not that there is anything wrong with it, but it feels disgusting taking a librarian in your army only to spend most of the game giving buffs to your captain). Having a librarian isn't against the lore, but only taking him to be a buff-b*tch is against the lore. But thats just my thoughts, so take that what you will (I run a salamanders successor chapter, and they like to use plasma more than flamers and lots of assault marines and bikers).

 

Since you are going the primaris route, a repulsor is a good grav-raider and a serious weapons platform, the only downside is that there isnt any primaris tech marines and the repulsor is more expensive than a land raider points wise. And outside of the redemptor dread and astreaus superheavy, the primaris dont have any other vehicles (yet). so bringing in flame aggressors is going to be difficult. And since we cant use pyroclasts from 30k, its going to be difficult bringing anything with flamers to bear if you are going primaris (since only aggressors have flame weapons for primaris).

 

I am really annoyed at how blood angels, space wolves and dark angels get to keep all their special toys (baal predator and special dread, stormfangs, special land speeder and the like), but everyone else shares (redeemer, crusader, terminus ultra). the standard codex has become more and more of the ultramarines codex, and chapters like salamanders, black templars, white scars and ravenguard get blander and blander.

[Aothaine]

I am really annoyed at how blood angels, space wolves and dark angels get to keep all their special toys (baal predator and special dread, stormfangs, special land speeder and the like), but everyone else shares (redeemer, crusader, terminus ultra). the standard codex has become more and more of the ultramarines codex, and chapters like salamanders, black templars, white scars and ravenguard get blander and blander.

 

To be fair the Baal Predator is almost useless. Also, I don't think that the Salamander flamer stratagem is all that good with most units. A unit of land speeders with double heavy flamers or veteran bikers with flamers are the two best options I've see so far. But they are expensive.

 

Also, I thought the term "soup" was applied when you were allying different factions in. I could be wrong on that though. But the librarian wouldn't only be buffing the captain. Just before you assault with the captain really. Kind of like giving him a spike of the Bane elixir before sending in your beat stick. It is still better used on units. I just thought it could make buffing the Salamander Captain up a bit to make him more than a common captain. 

 

But yeah I do plan on going Primaris Only. Still trying to find out more information regarding Salamanders and how they received the Primaris. Were sucessor chapters created for the Salamanders because of the Primaris influx? I doubt they thought "Well the Salamanders don't have any sucessors so we'll only make about 800 of them for those guys." From what I read on Devastation of Baal it seemed like there were 20,000+ Primaris being delivered for the Blood Angels alone. I am hoping to get Dark Imperium soon and read that to get more of a feel for the Primaris. But it just makes sense that there would be fleet based Salamander Successor Chapters. Possibly even some with planets they were left to guard. 

 

I'm still up in the air which chapter I want to go with just yet. There are a lot of promising chapter tactics but the main four I keep looking into are Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Rift Stalkers(Raven Guard), and Salamanders. I won't go with a successor for the Salamanders though. Just in case Vulkan is released soon. But it will most likely be the Lion next.

 

Really appreciate your opinion though. Thank you very much for posting. ^_^

[Epsolonofthe5th]

As BA player I recommend picking up Angels Blade, it is a minidex/campagne book. I have run small Primaris only armies and found that they are not lacking in many areas (long range anti tank is an issue).

[Aothaine]

As BA player I recommend picking up Angels Blade, it is a minidex/campagne book. I have run small Primaris only armies and found that they are not lacking in many areas (long range anti tank is an issue).

 

Yeah that is their main concern. The Red Thirst helps as well. But I also like what you can do with Salamander Captains. Plus the Reroll 1 Hit&Miss for every squad in the army and in both shooting and melee is really damn good. Also, since I am going Primaris only most of the special units that come witih Blood Angels/Dark Angels/etc are not that useful. 

 

My ranking right now is as follows:

 

Salamanders

Blood Angels

Raven Guard

Dark Angels

 

More than likely going to go Salamanders as I don't see too many of them about.

 

Trying to figure out if I want to run with 3D shoulder pads or just use transfers. I'm leaning towards transfers though because you can make them work on any model. I just need to learn how to apply them. When I'm ready I'll take a trip down to the local GW Store and ask for a tutorial. The store is usually pretty empty so I should be able to get some help in that matter. It is just going to take a month or two to get the transfers, get the paints I need for the Salamanders, get some more models. I have two lieutenants right now and some Hellblasters right now I got from the the DI set. Gonna have to wait and see what else I can get.

[Epsolonofthe5th]

Enjoy and welcome to the cult of flame

 

I think if you are able to play on terrain heavy tables you'll be ok. Once you get going would like to see a WIP from you. Still thinking about shades of green

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

You could do just bog standard shoulders for your tacticals and such, but go with 3rd party shoulders and such if you are going full Salamanders or Salamanders successors. Bits of War has some AWESOME 'dragonborn' shoulders. I had bought a set and put them on a squad of assault marines and they look pretty nice. (I will post a picture of them later, only just primed the squad black but I can still show off the shoulders)

https://bitsofwar.com/home/148-dragonborn-shoulder-pads-.html

They also have some nice looking razorback turrets too, since GW doesnt want to do just sell turrets to us.

 

Wargame Exclusive also has some amazing looking turrets for razorbacks as well. And they also have a lot of different head choices and other bits to customize your army. They also have a pretty great looking chaplain model too thats pretty impressive.

https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/space-warriors/imperial-heavy-flamer-turret-conversion-set/

 

Spellcrow has other bits, like helmets and such that can help personalize your troops even more

http://www.spellcrow.com/salamandra-dragon-space-knights-helmets-forge-pattern-p-298.html

I actually got some salamandra icons recently and put them on my second forgeworld contemptor.

http://www.spellcrow.com/salamandra-dragons-icons-p-299.html

(I just finished magnetizing the cyclone launcher last night and had to make adjustments to the left shoulder Icon so I will upload an updated picture later but here is what it looked like before the cyclone launcher)

I think I will be ordering a lot more spellcrow stuff for my chapter.

 

Of course Forgeworld has some salamanders stuff, but nowhere near as much as other chapters (like space wolves) the shoulders are crazy expensive (roughly $16 for just 10 shoulder pads, not including taxes and shipping)

[Aothaine]

Those are some cool bits for sure. I'm trying to keep everything GW related though. Just in case I end up going to one of the events held by GW. Also, I'm starting out with Primaris only. I plan on sculpting a bunch of my own Salamander skin bits onto the models and such. I'm a little worried about getting bits more in line with the Salamanders like the thunder hammers and baubles on the armor. 

 

The Salamander shoulder pads I was thinking about were from Forgeworld. But I'm pretty positive that I will be going with decals for my army as I like the flat icons better than the 3d ones that stick out. 

 

I'll be working on my first Captain in Gravis Armour this weekend and I'll start up a blog on these forums to show my progress over the weekend. Since it is the Captain from the Dark Imperium set his right shoulder has a skull and wings on it but I'm thinking about painting the flames behind the wings and skull. I think it will look pretty damn good. 

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Here are the pictures I promised

Using third party bits shouldnt be an issue, and will really add some spice to the look of your army. especially since salamanders are known for customizing and upgrading their own armor. There is even a website called shapeways that you can get custom made bits.

[Aothaine]

Those do look pretty awesome. I'll have to think about this some more. Do you think the Primaris marines would do this to their armor?

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Those do look pretty awesome. I'll have to think about this some more. Do you think the Primaris marines would do this to their armor?

If they decide to take on the ideals and tenets of the promethean cult, then yes. The problem is we havent gotten enough lore about primaris to really get a handle on their attitudes and adoption of customs from the home chapters. We dont get a lot of lore about the salamanders as it is, so honestly you can fill that in however you want. I personally think the primaris would customize and upgrade as they learned to take responsibility of their gear, as salamanders get really, REALLY angry when other people touch their :cuss, and will only hand off equipment for repairs if its beyond their ability.

 

Primaris as we have seen so far are more of an empty glass that you can fill how you want. I have a different take on primaris adoption to my chapter. Considering my chapter likes to hunt around for relics and STC gear that the primaris doesnt use (or need) they dont accept/take on missions of relic recovery and are only interested in combat and training, with strict adherence to the Codex while my Astartes diverge much from the Codex.

 

If you want your Salamander (or Salamander Successor chapter) primaris to take on the traditions of the salamanders, its entirely up to you.

[Aothaine]

Sounds good. Yeah I want them to be Salamanders. I'll have them upgrade their gear slowly. So less stuff on the non-officers and more on the officers of the force.

 

I'm going with transfers for chapter badges though. I want it to look uniform throughout the chapter/legion then I'll let them personalize the rest of their gear. Just not chapter badge.

 

Thanks for the convo. It has been and is really helpful!

[Hellrender]

If unsure about 3rd party bits.. Go to your local gw and talk with people there. Try to start with regulars and if that doesnt provide anything useful try the staff. I find that some only enforce the requirement of your model being mostly gw. Just an additional loin cloth or scale thingy isnt an issue. Others want 100% pure.

[Epsolonofthe5th]

Hellrender, do you use 3rd party pieces beyond those listed in the resources here? If so would you mind posting?

[Hellrender]

Nop, im just starting my 30k salamanders :) I might pick up some of those loin clothes from spellcrow though.

[Aothaine]

Was looking around at some Salamander guides on youtube and came across this nugget. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc4Vs59_xJA

 

 

The Cosairs are quite affordable and the cloaks look amazing for Salamanders. The flaming sword is a lot more difficult to obtain but you really only need one of them for a conversion to one of the characters getting the Flaming Sword Relic. Which isn't too bad on Salamanders as they get the +1S Warlord Trait. Kind of wish I had found this before finishing the Gravis Captain I have right now. It is going to be almost impossible to rip these pieces apart now. So I might just use this dude for testing or paint him up as a Dark Angel for a friend.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

Was looking around at some Salamander guides on youtube and came across this nugget. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc4Vs59_xJA

 

 

The Cosairs are quite affordable and the cloaks look amazing for Salamanders. The flaming sword is a lot more difficult to obtain but you really only need one of them for a conversion to one of the characters getting the Flaming Sword Relic. Which isn't too bad on Salamanders as they get the +1S Warlord Trait. Kind of wish I had found this before finishing the Gravis Captain I have right now. It is going to be almost impossible to rip these pieces apart now. So I might just use this dude for testing or paint him up as a Dark Angel for a friend.

That conversion does look fantastic.

 

But dont go rushing to destroy your gravis captain, there actually wouldnt be a whole lot you need to do to make him salamandery. Get green stuff and cut it into scale shapes and just put it on the gravis captain cloak. And changing over the sword to the flaming blade in the video is literally just 2 small cuts above the crossguard to make that work. You could also cut the hand/arms at the joint to give them a better dynamic pose.

 

My chapter is Salamander Successor, but we have a dragonic and angelic motif.

My chapter colors were red, yellow and black, which did help them stand out more but its a real pain in the arse to paint, especially for a whole army. So I have decided to repaint a lot of my army into just red and black, using gold and silver as highlights.

 

If you are wondering what those wings are, they are the really old swooping hawk/exarch wings.