Will Grey Knights be fixed by the March FAQ?

[Capt. Mytre]

Seriously, the pity party needs to end. People are acting like entitled brats. Send your feedback and be patient, or just man up and deal with how things are.

 

"Entitled Brats". You know what, I am entitled. It's insane that people defend GW for making a poor product. My army, that I've spent thousands of dollars on and hundreds of hours on should be just as (or at least try to be) as capable as any other army.

 

If you don't like the complaints, then how about you just man up and deal with how things are, instead of complaining about other people complaining. At least we have a valid complaint, you're just whining.

[Holier Than Thou]

When exactly was the mail sent again? I'm pretty sure it was either close to, or after CA was released. Since it's in print, the changes wouldn't have made it there. The feedback sent should then be used for this FAQ. 

 

I agree with SyNidus simply because every single thread seems to surn into a whinefest, simply scaring potential GK brothers away, when there is no real need. To YOU, the army may very well be unusable, simply due to playing incredibly competitively, but to others, the army represents something more. If they're playing in a less competitive scene, GK do fine. There are still people that win games regularly, albeit not at WAAC levels. Is it a challenging army to play? Sure! Your anti tank is on the bigger fire magnets or in CC. Will you lose games? Sure? Is it less fun? If so, you're playing Warhammer for all the wrong reasons. 

 

I think GK won't be overlooked. GW isn't stupid. They may not communicate everything they do, but I'm sure GK will get some changes. Probably not all of those on the wishlists, but they will be tuned slowly. Overtuning is also a bad thing ;)

The problem with you making sweeping statements about me not finding the army usable because I play in a WAAC level is, you don't know me, you obviously haven't read any of my posts where I have explained that I DON'T WANT Grey Knights to be all-powerful and crush all before them.

 

I don't play in a hyper-competitive environment, I play with my mates. None of us use netlists, none of us are WAAC. But Grey Knights still can't compete in this casual environment because the Codex is soooo weak in comparison to every other Codex. I want the army that I play, that I've invested considerable money and time into, to be on a similar level to the others instead of the piss poor state it's in now.

 

Maybe try reading people's posts before you barrel in with your assumptions.

[Holier Than Thou]

 

Seriously, the pity party needs to end. People are acting like entitled brats. Send your feedback and be patient, or just man up and deal with how things are.

 

 

"Entitled Brats". You know what, I am entitled. It's insane that people defend GW for making a poor product. My army, that I've spent thousands of dollars on and hundreds of hours on should be just as (or at least try to be) as capable as any other army.

 

If you don't like the complaints, then how about you just man up and deal with how things are, instead of complaining about other people complaining. At least we have a valid complaint, you're just whining.

I know. How dare we expect the same level of service as other people???

 

I hope when the FAQ comes out, if we've been ignored again, all these people will be as quick to come on and say they were wrong as they are to throw insults.

[Danarc]

There's been a lot of whinging in this particular subforum, which is not entirely unfounded. But so much hot air is blown, but not even in the general direction of the metaphorical hot air balloon that we're trying to raise.

So i'm throwing down the gauntlet.

Time to do something about it! Write to GW at 40kfaq@gwplc.com and let them know what you think our codex needs, BUT put the title of your email as follows: "URGENT Grey Knights FAQ/Erratas Needed"

The idea is that if we fill their inbox with enough of the same email titles they will be more likely to notice our emails over the stream of other emails they must surely receive and at least acknowledge there's a problem with our codex.

Dear Sirs,

Firstly,

Thank you for the hard work you fine folks have been putting in. The speed at which you're putting out new, interesting and flavourful rules makes this edition of 40k perhaps the best edition yet.

A lot of tactics and strategy has been brought back into the game, where the previous edition was all about building unbeatable units to wipe the enemy with. Which is where Grey Knights come in.

In case you might have missed it, for an army which already had a codex released, the Grey Knights were distinctly absent from Adepticon and other high level competitive events. This is with the exception of supreme command detachments filled with 3-5 Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight.

Unfortunately, in matched play, the GK have a number of things going against it.

- It's distinct lack of mobility because only one units gets to use Gate of Infinity per turn. This coupled with the fact that most transports die very quickly to common predators like Dark Reapers, etc... It means our only means of mobility is deepstriking.

This is not ideal, especially in an edition where "screening" units and deepstrike defences are the norm.

- All the special weapons are inefficient because the Heavy weapons penalty means that they put out less damage/point output than the basic storm bolter.

- Some inefficient stratagems. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammunition could be reduced to 1 point, they're good, but certainly not game breaking.

- For a psychically powerful army, we really lack powerful psychic abilities. The matched play rules means that only one of our units gets to use Hammerhand (when this should really be something every Grey Knight can use, regardless), only one unit can use Gate of Infinity. Even our smite is really lacklustre. We understand that balance is an important thing, but this falls short when you consider the fact that we'd have a far more powerful psychic suite if we were to take a Supreme detachment of 5 Astra Militarum Primaris Psykers. This problem is exacerbated by the Smite beta rules (which i think is actually a great solution to smite spam, kudos!)

But weakness is not really what drove me to leave this army. It's boring.

All the above mentioned factors lead to a single result: Grey Knights have only one strategy, namely:-

Deepstrike and pray we make the 9" charge.

Doing that every single game is boring. Give us back our mobility (something which we had lots of back in 7th Edition). Give us some actual teeth and shooting and psychic phases.

Look, i'm not asking that GK be made the most overpowered army in the game. I just wished they were actually playable. The Custodes are a great example of an Elite (low model count army) that is flavourful, interesting and powerful, while remaining balanced.

I know we've had our codex already. I know that this is just for the FAQ/Errata and there's only so much you can do. But really, we need the help.

Again, I just want to express how much i appreciate your efforts these past months. Keep up the good work!

Thank you

Yours Truly,

A Humble Justicar

I've cast the first stone. If ye be knights of Titan, i challenge you to do the same!

We did. We did as singular and we did as community. Since the codex release we talked about this and prepared two or three different letter that has been sent during last year. Norhing appened in CA, and we can’t be positive or optimistic since every time gw changed something for us, it was a nerf.

I don’t think that we’ll get what gk deserve in this faq.

 

  

I have a feeling that every thread turns into a whine-feast because there is nothing more to tell about GK. We have only one working strategy. Whenever I try something else, it either fails completely or feels underwhelming. When I try something like purifiers or terminators, I only get assured again that they don't pay off. We either deepstrkie and charge or sit in deployment zone and wait enemy to come and counterattack (I even find the latter more fun). Today I will field to packs of terminators, crowe and stern and I will be surprised if they do something significant. Our codex may be weak, but as it's been said, it was boring. We have too little interesting rules or combinations. Since August we talked about everything we could. And every subsequent errata only denied us something rather than giving something new. For fun games you can play with any unit (except purifiers). In competitive games everything is straightforward.

Exactly. I strongly agree. But I played also purifiers in friendly game. Unfortunately.

 

Moreover assuming that the DE point drop is real, we stiss remain the only army without point drop and without any way to gain more CP or regain it.

[SyNidus]

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

 

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

 

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

 

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

 

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

[Gentlemanloser]

I did something.

 

I added AC bikes. Made a tonne of difference.

 

 

Seriously, the pity party needs to end. People are acting like entitled brats. Send your feedback and be patient, or just man up and deal with how things are.

 

"Entitled Brats". You know what, I am entitled. It's insane that people defend GW for making a poor product. My army, that I've spent thousands of dollars on and hundreds of hours on should be just as (or at least try to be) as capable as any other army.

 

If you don't like the complaints, then how about you just man up and deal with how things are, instead of complaining about other people complaining. At least we have a valid complaint, you're just whining.

I know. How dare we expect the same level of service as other people???

 

I hope when the FAQ comes out, if we've been ignored again, all these people will be as quick to come on and say they were wrong as they are to throw insults.

Nope. We'll be told to man up and wait for the end of year chapter approved. Where we'll obviously be fixed there.

 

Same old same old.

[Capt. Mytre]

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

 

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

 

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

 

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

 

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

 

I'll continue complaining then. Seems odd that if someone complains they are as you depict them, yet here you are, doing the exact same thing about an even more futile subject.

 

You're the exact same as us, you're just lower down the wall.

[Waking Dreamer]

Well, if we're talking about effort in constructive feedback vs complaining and expressing disappointment in GW...shouldn't they be equal?

 

Sure, people have sent 1...maybe 2 emails with their GK feedback...but has the posts here stopped at 1...maybe 2 posts of complaining and being disappointed?

 

With how everyone here acknowledges nearly every new topic ends with the repeat of how disappointing GK currently are...do those people continue to repeat / add their feedback to GW?

 

If you word count the posts here of how GW has unsatisfied you since before - now - and forever...does that match the word count sent in your feedback email(s)?

 

I've complained and vented my frustrations of how GKs have been treated on these forums myself, but after one or two posts about the same issues what do you get by putting effort in typing about those same frustrations you've already typed out before in that other thread...??

 

------------------

 

 

 

Can there be a thread that enables posters for venting and all that complaining to continue in just that one thread / section, but then have EVERY other topic to be a clear NEGATIVE FREE zone?  That is, even jokes like having "no hope" and "disappointing roads" that eventually creep up in new threads be directed in that one "venting" thread so people who want to read stuff like that know what they're getting into by choosing to click that thread. 

 

Because as we have all agreed - Im reading that vibe in nearly every topic when the OP of that topic had nothing insinuating such an atmosphere in the first place. I'ts not fair people having to read things like that if the topic wasnt about that...it can legitimately ruin your forum experience.

[Gentlemanloser]

Catharsis.

[Waking Dreamer]

Catharsis.

 

One specific thread can fit all that. 

 

'Cause I'd rather not be exposed to that in every other thread. Especially if the Topic wasn't about that in the first place.

[Ichar]

I would like everyone to stop whining about the whining. It only adds to the whining. And maybe stop calling it whinging. That make me whine more.

[Panzer]

Could we all be adults, please? (no, you're not)

I'm not even a GK player and have to say it's pretty annoying to read all the negativity.  And before you say "it's easy to say if you aren't affected" ... well I'm also a BA and Chaos player and not just since 8th edition.

[Helycon]

 

When exactly was the mail sent again? I'm pretty sure it was either close to, or after CA was released. Since it's in print, the changes wouldn't have made it there. The feedback sent should then be used for this FAQ. 

 

I agree with SyNidus simply because every single thread seems to surn into a whinefest, simply scaring potential GK brothers away, when there is no real need. To YOU, the army may very well be unusable, simply due to playing incredibly competitively, but to others, the army represents something more. If they're playing in a less competitive scene, GK do fine. There are still people that win games regularly, albeit not at WAAC levels. Is it a challenging army to play? Sure! Your anti tank is on the bigger fire magnets or in CC. Will you lose games? Sure? Is it less fun? If so, you're playing Warhammer for all the wrong reasons. 

 

I think GK won't be overlooked. GW isn't stupid. They may not communicate everything they do, but I'm sure GK will get some changes. Probably not all of those on the wishlists, but they will be tuned slowly. Overtuning is also a bad thing

The problem with you making sweeping statements about me not finding the army usable because I play in a WAAC level is, you don't know me, you obviously haven't read any of my posts where I have explained that I DON'T WANT Grey Knights to be all-powerful and crush all before them.

 

I don't play in a hyper-competitive environment, I play with my mates. None of us use netlists, none of us are WAAC. But Grey Knights still can't compete in this casual environment because the Codex is soooo weak in comparison to every other Codex. I want the army that I play, that I've invested considerable money and time into, to be on a similar level to the others instead of the piss poor state it's in now.

 

Maybe try reading people's posts before you barrel in with your assumptions.

 

 

If you look through the forum, you'll find that at least 75% of the posts is about competitive GK. The fact that you're taking this personal is your issue, not mine. I did not make assumptions, I'm basing this simply on the amount of negativity in the forum, and the simple content of these aforementioned posts. 

 

I'm not saying GK are competitive, yet I've done fine against a Tyranid player with a subobtimal list and done reasonably well against some Harlequins and T'au. 

 

I haven't played them a ton, which is why I've refrained from doing a lot of feedback. I don't have a lot of time to play, and I also play Dark Angels, which was my first army, so I play them more often. I still enjoy Grey Knights, and sure, I've lost a two games, and all three of them were fairly close. Did my opponents make tactical mistakes? Yup. Did I? Pretty sure I did. 

 

I'm sure that GK are not the best codex out there, So to counteract your last point, see my first sentence. I've read the forums and far to many posts ARE about competitive play. That your meta isn't ultra competitive, good for you, the world doesn't revolve around just you. I've read your posts, I've read a lot of them, and still, a ton of them are negative and whiny. The fact that a lot of people here seem to agree pretty much sums that up. 

 

I will kindly request you not attack me personally, since it's uncalled for.

[Holier Than Thou]

I don't know where you're getting this 75% competitive posts from. I've not seen a single person say they want Grey Knights to be the most powerful army, I've seen several people say they want Grey Knights to be of a similar power level as the other armies.

[Bartali]

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

 

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

 

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

 

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

 

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

 

 

Could we all be adults, please? (no, you're not)

I'm not even a GK player and have to say it's pretty annoying to read all the negativity.  And before you say "it's easy to say if you aren't affected" ... well I'm also a BA and Chaos player and not just since 8th edition.

 

What's with all the people playing other chapters coming into this thread and whining ? One a mod as well.

 

I find it weird that people take offence at offering criticism towards 40K or GW. Heck I have GK, BA and Eldar and recognise the problems that continue to dog 40K and GK in particular.  

 

I think some people have a hang up over GK in 5th ed.

[Helycon]

I don't know where you're getting this 75% competitive posts from. I've not seen a single person say they want Grey Knights to be the most powerful army, I've seen several people say they want Grey Knights to be of a similar power level as the other armies.

You just twisted my words. I've never said anything of the sort.

 

I'm saying that people are complaining they aren't competitive at all, they have little to no useful choices and they aren't viable at all. People are saying that everything bar unit A, B and C is sub-optimal. They're saying GK aren't used in the competitive scene. They're just conplaining how every other army had it better, not trying to come up with new strategies. People almost rage when someone brings up Interceptors in an Outrider detachment, because strikes are better. Sure, maybe on a mathematical level they are, but if they are successful with them, why not. Again, don't take it personally, I'm pretty sure it wasn't you.

 

Maybe there are some pretty fun and decent builds out there. Maybe it's synergy.

 

Yes, there is some bizarrely bad stuff in the codex that should be addressed to raise it up to the medium codices. I'm not advocating anything less. Everyone is entitled to their army being at least OK. But not all games should be won, it's about having fun too and amidst all the negativity, I do feel people are forgetting this.

[Gentlemanloser]

I like interceptors. Especially in razors.

 

Sadly they give us a CP hit.

 

They'd be more viable a choice if CPs weren't based on detachments.

 

We've tried all the combos. Our codex just isn't deep enough to have any depths someone here hasn't already thought of.

[PureShield]

When exactly was the mail sent again? I'm pretty sure it was either close to, or after CA was released. Since it's in print, the changes wouldn't have made it there. The feedback sent should then be used for this FAQ. 

 

I agree with SyNidus simply because every single thread seems to surn into a whinefest, simply scaring potential GK brothers away, when there is no real need. To YOU, the army may very well be unusable, simply due to playing incredibly competitively, but to others, the army represents something more. If they're playing in a less competitive scene, GK do fine. There are still people that win games regularly, albeit not at WAAC levels. Is it a challenging army to play? Sure! Your anti tank is on the bigger fire magnets or in CC. Will you lose games? Sure? Is it less fun? If so, you're playing Warhammer for all the wrong reasons. 

 

I think GK won't be overlooked. GW isn't stupid. They may not communicate everything they do, but I'm sure GK will get some changes. Probably not all of those on the wishlists, but they will be tuned slowly. Overtuning is also a bad thing

Well said my good man. We need more posts about enjoying the hobby, lore, and battle reports where we won or had fun.

[SyNidus]

 

 

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

 

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

 

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

 

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

 

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

Could we all be adults, please? (no, you're not)

I'm not even a GK player and have to say it's pretty annoying to read all the negativity. And before you say "it's easy to say if you aren't affected" ... well I'm also a BA and Chaos player and not just since 8th edition.

What's with all the people playing other chapters coming into this thread and whining ? One a mod as well.

 

I find it weird that people take offence at offering criticism towards 40K or GW. Heck I have GK, BA and Eldar and recognise the problems that continue to dog 40K and GK in particular.

 

I think some people have a hang up over GK in 5th ed.

Because i played GK and only left the army this edition after finding the problems that i've mentioned.

 

I didn't come here to complain about whiners. I came here to challenge you all to send more emails to GW, particularly in light of the upcoming 40k. And what is the response to that? Half the responses were "we've already sent it & GW is going to ignore us anyway".

 

To which all i say is just send your feedback again anyway. It doesn't hurt and doesn't take much time. And no one has taken offence to people whining. The fact is that it's a singularly futile activity which is better channeled in the direction of GW, at least there's a chance they will listen.

[Ichar]

I don't know where you're getting this 75% competitive posts from. I've not seen a single person say they want Grey Knights to be the most powerful army, I've seen several people say they want Grey Knights to be of a similar power level as the other armies.

Hey, don’t you know that 99.0978686678 percent of statistics are made up on the Internet? This is no exception

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

 

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

 

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

 

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

 

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

Could we all be adults, please? (no, you're not)

I'm not even a GK player and have to say it's pretty annoying to read all the negativity. And before you say "it's easy to say if you aren't affected" ... well I'm also a BA and Chaos player and not just since 8th edition.

What's with all the people playing other chapters coming into this thread and whining ? One a mod as well.

 

I find it weird that people take offence at offering criticism towards 40K or GW. Heck I have GK, BA and Eldar and recognise the problems that continue to dog 40K and GK in particular.

 

I think some people have a hang up over GK in 5th ed.

Because i played GK and only left the army this edition after finding the problems that i've mentioned.

 

I didn't come here to complain about whiners. I came here to challenge you all to send more emails to GW, particularly in light of the upcoming 40k. And what is the response to that? Half the responses were "we've already sent it & GW is going to ignore us anyway".

 

To which all i say is just send your feedback again anyway. It doesn't hurt and doesn't take much time. And no one has taken offence to people whining. The fact is that it's a singularly futile activity which is better channeled in the direction of GW, at least there's a chance they will listen.

 

 

It's called catharsis and validation. If this sub-forum had no complaints, it'd be pretty much dead.

[Panzer]

 

Holier than thou, nobody is saying feedback hasn't been sent before. And so what if it has been sent before. Send it again! What's the loss?

One day, they will turn their attentions back to the GK, one hopes it will be sooner rather than later. But that doesn't mean we should stop sending our feedback. And yeah, patience is needed, i've waited years upon years for a new codex back when i played Dark Eldar. Waiting for an update or a fix now is nothing.

But just twiddling our thumbs, whinging at each other just feels like a waste of time and effort. Perhaps if that whinging was sent to GW everytime you want to whine.

That's far more productive than the whine-fest this place has become. What are you? A bunch of elizabethan-era wallflowers waiting to be wooed by a suitor? If you are than carry on.

But if you're not, then do something about it. Do it again if you have to, add to the pile of pebbles!

 

 

 

Could we all be adults, please? (no, you're not)

I'm not even a GK player and have to say it's pretty annoying to read all the negativity. :huh: And before you say "it's easy to say if you aren't affected" ... well I'm also a BA and Chaos player and not just since 8th edition.

 

 

What's with all the people playing other chapters coming into this thread and whining ? One a mod as well.

 

I find it weird that people take offence at offering criticism towards 40K or GW. Heck I have GK, BA and Eldar and recognise the problems that continue to dog 40K and GK in particular.  

 

I think some people have a hang up over GK in 5th ed.

God forbid people having an interest in armies they don't play.

Also nobody is taking offence at offering criticism towards 40k or GW. We even admit those problems ourselves.

We're just complaining about people like you turning every single thread into a whine fest ignoring the actual topic. If you had a more strict mod for this subforum more than half of your new threads would be locked already and keep getting your threads locked.

 

If I were a new player looking for a community I'd stay the hell away from this subforum after reading some of the threads and if I weren't set on playing GK as a new pöayer I'd be seriously considering starting this army after coming here.

 

Criticism is GOOD and needed! Whining in almost every single thread is BAD. It's not just unproductive, it's also damaging.

You remember how everyone on this forum was joking about and were annoyed by the constant whining of CSM player? Congratulations, you are the new CSM community now.

[Gentlemanloser]

This thread is about whether the upcoming FAQ will fix us.

 

Saying nope isn't whinning nor off topic.

 

Explaining why isn't either.

 

I would posit however, coming into the thread purely to complain about negativity is both off topic and in no way constructive.

 

/shrug

[SyNidus]

I did not come to this thread to "complain about the amount if whining". I came here to possibly stir up some community action in the form of more emails sent to GW. But some never got the point of my post and instead decided to engage in a debate about complaining rather than doing the one thing that serves any real purpose: Sending your feedback to GW.

 

And saying "oh we've done it before" doesn't mean anything when there's no loss in sending another email. This time perhaps with some concerted effort we could make our complaints heard by the people who have the power to address them. But you want to argue about this instead and what good has it done?

 

Really, what have you achieved?

 

I challenged you to do something productive together...clearly you have failed to rise to the occasion. All you had to do was try. Or try again.

[WarriorFish]

This topic is a poor display of what we expect on the B&C, it is very disappointing. As the rules stipulate; we are here for constructive discussion. For those who need a refresher the B&C's rules can be found here. For those who do not understand what "constructive" means, here is a useful explanation.