Will Grey Knights be fixed by the March FAQ?

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

On the psychic front I don’t think librarius is a great discipline. Psykana is better for the defensive buffs which provide a greater utility and synergy with our units. Null zone is awesome, but a wc 8 your not getting it off as reliably as you need. The +1 to all saving throws and -1 to hit powers are much more useful.

Though agreeing on this gamewise, one must recall that 40k rules are written fluffwise beforehand :D

 

Consider in fact that TS have access to 3 disciplines, but in the following way:

 

- TS sorcerers (any level from HQs to Tzaangors) to Change

- DPs and other "cloned" units from CSM to Dark Hereticus

- Daemons to Tzeentch

 

Therefore, at least our Librarians should access another discipline but this should be Librarius fluffwise, just for the fact to be SM ;)

 

I could only foresee one scenario in which gaining access to 2 additional disciplines, that is to give Libbies the possibility to upgrade to:

 

1) Prognosticar (access Psykana/Telethesia)

 

2) Sanctum Sanctorum Warden (access Librarius)

 

but of course this sounds much more like next-codex material :P

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

Lets take a look at a purgation squad. 4x special weapons. These are the targets: GEQ, MEQ, TEQ, Land Speeder, Rhino, Land Raider, Knight

 

Average wounds per turn:

 

Math wise, a psycannon does about the same amount of damage as a psilencer. However, once you factor in points (unit+upgrades), the psilencer is vastly more efficient against everything:

 

 

Changing the damage to flat 2 for the psycannon results in it swinging the other way.

 

 

This change leaves psilencers as only effective choices verse light infantry, which is a stupid when we already have hoards of anti-light infantry with stormbolters.

 

Hopefully now you guys will understand that each weapon is too similar in the role it performs right now, and slight changes aren't enough to make them worthwhile.

 

 

Based on this, CURRENTLY the psycannon is worse at causing wounds for it's points value than the psilencer against ANY and ALL targets - even against T8 units like the Landraider and IKnights.

 

However with D2 for the psycannon, it becomes significantly more better at damaging (and cost-effective) against those same Landraiders, Kinghts and Termies, while the Psilencer remains more cost-effective against light & medium Infantry. Sure, there is overlap with many of the targets (and not enough overall increase in anti-tank damage), but technically...the psycannon getting D2 is hands down better for our infantry than what we have right now. It makes shooting the Psycannon actually better against heavy infantry and all vehicles (our weakness for infantry at range) than the psilencer for how much it costs, where as now the pscannon is less cost-effective against everything. The one change (while minimal) would be a clear improvement of our codex even if overshadows the psilencer....

 

Also, I presume you've sent all this number crunching and reasoning to GW's official feedback channels? I recommend you also send your hammered-out special weapon profiles as well. March is just around the corner.

 

 

Sure it's better, and I'd rather that then nothing, but if you're going to fix one, you may as well fix both.

 

The psilencer niche doesn't exist when you have hoards of anti-light infantry in the form of stormbolters, and psycannons are only ever so slightly less useful against medium infantry. Why would you take a psilencer over a psycannon when a psycannon can be used for so many more targets and the only downside is that it's 1.5% less efficient against medium infantry?

 

As for feedback, emailed them long ago. Feel free to show them these yourself, the document isn't mine and is available for anyone to read:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10t6_FO9mTaG8FHY4B7v6hOQgwc3gXxUiIOrMYt16I6M/edit#gid=1771731034

 

 

I’d change the Pyscannon to if this weapon caused an unsaved wound on a 2+ or 3+ cause an additional Mortal wound. Or it becomes a silly kill anti-infantry and change can chain wounds with how you worded it. And change the Psilencer to AP -2 when targeting certain units.

 

And is this an PAGK Point or Pre-Reduction Points

 

It would need to be on a 4+, and it needs to happen after the failed armour save, what I've written basically gives the weapon a 3.5 damage profile. You do bring up a good point that mortal wounds spill over, so I'd amend the rule to read "roll a D6 for each unsaved wound, on a 4+, increase the damage by 1 for that unsaved wound".

 

The points are PAGK, no "-6 force weapon" reduction. So for you, they would be costed at 36 points, which squarely puts them almost 10 points past any other SM infantry deployable heavy weapon system.

[TheCastigator]

@Chronos, your right about the fluff obviously. The utility of librarius feels very limited, even with brotherhood of psykers giving us the bonus on null zone. Are veil of time and psychic fortress helpful enough? The other powers seem situational at best.

 

I wonder if a similar bonus to range or casting smite like the zoanthrope stratagem could work. Those could fit with the psychic choir effect from the Emperor’s gift novel.

[Corvus Fortis]

There's just a little problem with Psycana - it doesn't affect ADEPTUS ASTARTES keyword.

 

Librarius will give us Might of Heroes, that makes our characters even stronger (GMNDK) included. And we also can Gate t9 land raider just for fun. I don't know, why allied sm librarian in termo armor is such a rare guest in GK lists.

[Capt. Mytre]

There's just a little problem with Psycana - it doesn't affect ADEPTUS ASTARTES keyword.

 

Librarius will give us Might of Heroes, that makes our characters even stronger (GMNDK) included. And we also can Gate t9 land raider just for fun. I don't know, why allied sm librarian in termo armor is such a rare guest in GK lists.

 

You need another detachment, so some imperial detachment could work, but SM terminator stuff is expensive and you lose the SM chapter tactic stuff. It also needs to have space to be put into DS reserves, removing another of our units to do it.

 

Lastly, it isn't that amazing. Most character don't really need to be any more powerful. Sure it's nice, but our characters are killy enough in CC. It's getting in CC that's the issue, and while there is a psychic power to help with that, its 1 unit out of probably 4-5+ that need to make it into CC that turn. Also, you're warlord will probably already have first to the fray.

[Corvus Fortis]

Librarian's chapter tactic is irrelevant. I could be taken as HQ for inquisitorial vanguard (decides problems with deepstikes too). Best bonus out of three is +1T - no more assault cannons wounding GMNDK on 4+. And there is no such thing as too much attacks. Yesterday my GM with soulglaive, apothecary with hammer and paragon with hammer barely killed a dreadnought in close combat. 

[Capt. Mytre]

Librarian's chapter tactic is irrelevant. I could be taken as HQ for inquisitorial vanguard (decides problems with deepstikes too). Best bonus out of three is +1T - no more assault cannons wounding GMNDK on 4+. And there is no such thing as too much attacks. Yesterday my GM with soulglaive, apothecary with hammer and paragon with hammer barely killed a dreadnought in close combat. 

 

As I said, it's nice, but over the top. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. A very expensive basket. I've tried this strat before a few times, it just didn't feel like I accomplished much with it and could have used the points elsewhere more efficiently.

[Shagah]

So my thoughts on what could be done in the March release (some repeated from our look last year in prep for CA)

Some points changes also required for the below, but will not coming in the March update if what has been postulated is correct.

 

Ranged Special Weapons:

Psycannon: Current profile with the following changes, Rapid Fire 3, AP becomes -2, on a 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound.

HvyPsycannon: Current profile with the following changes, Heavy 8, AP becomes -2, on a 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound.

Psilencer: current profile with the following changes, Rapid Fire 4, each 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound, ordinary wounds ignore invulnerable saves.

Gatling Psilencer: current profile with the following changes, each 6+ to hit causing an additional mortal wound, ordinary wounds ignore invulnerable saves.

Incinerator/HvyIncinerator: both need big points drop (I think that stands for most flamer weapons), ignore Invul saves, and something like 2D3 and 3D3 auto hits respectively?

 

Stratagems: The Aegis, Psybolt Ammunition, and Psychic Onslaught all reduce CP by 1

 

Do something about the Domina Liber Daemonica.

 

I would like to see a FNP aura back on the Apothecaries (along with a small points increase).

Not sure what I would do with the Techmarine if points are not being changed in the update, maybe give him access to the Conversion Beamer again, and to GK Melee weapons.

 

I would like to see losing baby Smite for normal Smite, at least on Characters.

Hammerhand be exempt from the rule of 1, then we would not feel the lack of a boost in our ability to wound in general (such as the SM re-role 1s aura ability on whichever of their HQs that does it). Still have to cast it, and still takes up a space in the amount of powers we can take.

Access to another Power list apart from Santic (as already discussed above).

 

Maybe a little OTT without some points adjustments, but even then I do not think they are unreasonable compared to many other Codices

[Waking Dreamer]

I'm just wondering, if our GKs could cast the powers from our own discipline multiple times per turn (albeit with +1 casting requirement each repeat), would that be more effective than having access to the Librarius (or any other) discipline as well?

 

I know it' would be a variance / change in a core rule (which is the exact beta change of the current smite core rule), but personally, unless it's against Daemons/Chaos I don't like the idea of all our highly-trained psychic warriors just mind-slapping the closest enemy they see with a weaker spell that every other type of psyker in the game can do.

 

I'd rather have both my GMDK's protect themselves with Sanctuary, two of my Strikes Squads enhance their close-combat with Hammerhand, and have say Voldus with the Paladins GOI around an enemy unit mid-game. Imo, more uniquely GKs (blessings and utility over straight up mind-bullets), while I think better enhancing our psychic phase?

[Capt. Mytre]

So my thoughts on what could be done in the March release (some repeated from our look last year in prep for CA)

Some points changes also required for the below, but will not coming in the March update if what has been postulated is correct.

 

Ranged Special Weapons:

Psycannon: Current profile with the following changes, Rapid Fire 3, AP becomes -2, on a 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound.

HvyPsycannon: Current profile with the following changes, Heavy 8, AP becomes -2, on a 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound.

Psilencer: current profile with the following changes, Rapid Fire 4, each 6+ to hit causes an additional mortal wound, ordinary wounds ignore invulnerable saves.

Gatling Psilencer: current profile with the following changes, each 6+ to hit causing an additional mortal wound, ordinary wounds ignore invulnerable saves.

Incinerator/HvyIncinerator: both need big points drop (I think that stands for most flamer weapons), ignore Invul saves, and something like 2D3 and 3D3 auto hits respectively?

 

Stratagems: The Aegis, Psybolt Ammunition, and Psychic Onslaught all reduce CP by 1

 

Do something about the Domina Liber Daemonica.

 

I would like to see a FNP aura back on the Apothecaries (along with a small points increase).

Not sure what I would do with the Techmarine if points are not being changed in the update, maybe give him access to the Conversion Beamer again, and to GK Melee weapons.

 

I would like to see losing baby Smite for normal Smite, at least on Characters.

Hammerhand be exempt from the rule of 1, then we would not feel the lack of a boost in our ability to wound in general (such as the SM re-role 1s aura ability on whichever of their HQs that does it). Still have to cast it, and still takes up a space in the amount of powers we can take.

Access to another Power list apart from Santic (as already discussed above).

 

Maybe a little OTT without some points adjustments, but even then I do not think they are unreasonable compared to many other Codices

 

Mortal wounds are far too prevalent in the game, we don't need more of them. The game just ends up spamming units that can deal MW, same thing that happened to AoS. It's also a super unimaginative way to come at the game, it's boring and every army ends up feeling the same.

 

This shows why people need to math out suggestions. Mathwise, I think your weapons are OP.

 

1. Mortal wound generation happens on the "to wound" rolls of 6, no other weapon I know of does it on the "to hit" roll. You don't generally give mortal wound generation on a weapon that has lots of shots, as you can just spam shots for MW, not even caring about the weapons actual ability to kill outside of mortal wounds.

 

2. If it is on the "to hit" roll, its ability to generate mortal wounds changes depending on if you moved or not (for heavy), or if the target has a negative to hit modifier. This would result in a messy weapon.

 

3. A five man purgation squad with psilencers does 5MW, not including any other damage it might do. That's more than the average amount of wounds a lascannon devastator squad does to a LR, and your wounds spill over making it good verse infantry as well. It would kill almost 15 GEQ models per turn. 50pts+ minimum for this weapon.

 

4. As noted above, psycannons with -2 AP would be good, however dealing mortal wounds and shooting 6 shots would make it again super OP. The required costs for each weapon would make them far and away the most expensive infantry deployable weapon - we're talking 60pts+.

 

I'm just wondering, if our GKs could cast the powers from our own discipline multiple times per turn (albeit with +1 casting requirement each repeat), would that be more effective than have access to the Librius discipline as well?

 

I know it's a change in a core rule (which is the exact beta change of the current smite core rule), but personally, unless it's against Daemons/chaos I don't like the idea of all our highly-trained psychic warriors just mind-slapping the closest enemy they see with a weaker spell that every other type of psyker in the game can do.

 

I'd rather have both my GMDK's protect themselves with Sanctuary, two of my Strikes Squads enhance their melee combat with Hammerhand, and have Voldus with the Paladins GOI around an enemy unit mid-game. Imo, more uniquely GKs while I think better utilising our psychic phase?

 

This has been a common suggestion, and TBH, it should be game wide. The psychic phase doesn't scale, and that's stupid as heck. Personally I'd make it something like per 1k points, you can cast a spell a second time (ie, 1K = 2 casts, 2k = 3 casts). This means it scales (albeit with steps) with the point increase. GK should be fine, the powers aren't over the top, but other armies would need their powers redone to not become OP, or limit those powers to specifically one use per turn. If there's no change, I'd probably adjust GoI to allow up to 3 characters to tag along with a unit.

[Corvus Fortis]

 

 

As I said, it's nice, but over the top. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. A very expensive basket. I've tried this strat before a few times, it just didn't feel like I accomplished much with it and could have used the points elsewhere more efficiently.

 

 

I agree here, probably it is better to invest points in some IG, AdMech or AdMin allies. But I see no reason to take our Librarians unless they have access to these powers. +2 to deny rolls in 12'' are not worth it unless you know you'll play against army that relies on spells and let you close enough.

 

I'm just wondering, if our GKs could cast the powers from our own discipline multiple times per turn (albeit with +1 casting requirement each repeat), would that be more effective than having access to the Librarius (or any other) discipline as well?

 

 

It will instantly become Purge Soul or Vortex feast. I have a feeling that investing in outright damage are always better than at anything else in current meta. And, as I noted several times already, imagine, how broken will become other armies. Sanctic is pretty mediocre discipline compared to Hereticus, Runes or Psycana. Warptime half of an army? Have +1 to-hit on all tanks? Guide and FnP for all Reapers? Word of Phoenix limit? No, thanks, I'd better go on with what I have.

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

 

As I said, it's nice, but over the top. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. A very expensive basket. I've tried this strat before a few times, it just didn't feel like I accomplished much with it and could have used the points elsewhere more efficiently.

 

 

I agree here, probably it is better to invest points in some IG, AdMech or AdMin allies. But I see no reason to take our Librarians unless they have access to these powers. +2 to deny rolls in 12'' are not worth it unless you know you'll play against army that relies on spells and let you close enough.

 

I'm just wondering, if our GKs could cast the powers from our own discipline multiple times per turn (albeit with +1 casting requirement each repeat), would that be more effective than having access to the Librarius (or any other) discipline as well?

 

 

It will instantly become Purge Soul or Vortex feast. I have a feeling that investing in outright damage are always better than at anything else in current meta. And, as I noted several times already, imagine, how broken will become other armies. Sanctic is pretty mediocre discipline compared to Hereticus, Runes or Psycana. Warptime half of an army? Have +1 to-hit on all tanks? Guide and FnP for all Reapers? Word of Phoenix limit? No, thanks, I'd better go on with what I have.

 

 

Oh, our Librarian suck. 100% agree. Not only are they useless in the role they have, they are vastly overpriced compared to regular SM, and to really solidify how crap they are, they don't even do full smites.

 

As for purge soul/vortex, that can be fixed by adjusting the required cast value. Vortex of Doom is already WC 8+, it would be 9+ the second cast and 10+ the third etc. The probability of rolling that is probably less than 7%, and that includes our +1 to cast. Purge soul would just need to be raised a point or two to make it unlikely to multi-cast. Also as noted above, you can adjust other armies powers to bring them in line with multiple uses, or (not the preferred option as it doesn't scale the phase properly) limit the power itself to a single cast per turn.

[Beams]

I dunno. I do have a fondness for our librarian. He just needs to be dropped a couple points so he isn't directly competing with Voldus. That +2 deny can be super clutch.

[jeffersonian000]

We can still access the index GK Librarian in Terminator Armor, which not only has Librarius as a discipline but also full Smite, access to a Storm Shield, and comes with a Nemesis Hammer.

 

SJ

[Capt. Mytre]

I dunno. I do have a fondness for our librarian. He just needs to be dropped a couple points so he isn't directly competing with Voldus. That +2 deny can be super clutch.

 

The only thing he offers to GK is the ability to use combi-weapons and have multiple powers on a single model. Due to Psychic Focus, he becomes less and less useful the more units you have, ie, the larger the game becomes. If Psychic Focus didn't exist, with a 20 point reduction in cost he would be worthwhile.

 

159 points vs 130points, for the price increase you get 2+ WS/BS, a nerfed smite and a different set of powers to choose from.

 

All in all, he's only actually a good choice when used as an ally to other armies, as you can get more powers out of one model, and you're not likely to cap out the powers if you're just allying in a few units.

 

For pure GK, he's garbage after ~750 points.

[Gentlemanloser]

Soulbourners generate Mortal Wounds on To-hit rolls.  They're super OP.

 

The Index Librarian in Terminator Armour uses the Index rules, so generates their powers from Sanctic and not Librarius.

 

But at least he doesn't have Rites of Banishment and has a full Smite...

[Waking Dreamer]

 

 I'm just wondering, if our GKs could cast the powers from our own discipline multiple times per turn (albeit with +1 casting requirement each repeat), would that be more effective than having access to the Librarius (or any other) discipline as well?

 

 

It will instantly become Purge Soul or Vortex feast. I have a feeling that investing in outright damage are always better than at anything else in current meta. And, as I noted several times already, imagine, how broken will become other armies. Sanctic is pretty mediocre discipline compared to Hereticus, Runes or Psycana. Warptime half of an army? Have +1 to-hit on all tanks? Guide and FnP for all Reapers? Word of Phoenix limit? No, thanks, I'd better go on with what I have.

 

 

Well, I was only talking in regards to GKs and having it as an army-wide special rule, just like how Rites of Banishment alters how we use our Smite compared to every other army.

 

Since you say the Sanctic discipline is average when it comes to it's powers, I wouldn't think multiple casts would break the meta, especially with the increase in casting difficulty every recast.

 

Right now Im seeing people wanting our psychic phase to be more effective (which I definitely agree), though by either having what other psykers have in other armies eg. access to Librarius discipline, or full Smite for our characters. Im thinking, instead of being more of the same, like the other armies....how about being better at being GKs i.e. using our Sanctuary powers more often? I dont know if crunch-wise that would be better than having our Characters use full d3/d6 Smite. But lore-wise, I would love it! 

 

Adding another 3" range to our Cleansing Flame for our Purifiers, Crowe and Relic Banner would make me doubly happy, along with when if we finally get D2 for our Psycannons!

 

March is coming.

[Capt. Mytre]

Soulbourners generate Mortal Wounds on To-hit rolls.  They're super OP.

 

The Index Librarian in Terminator Armour uses the Index rules, so generates their powers from Sanctic and not Librarius.

 

But at least he doesn't have Rites of Banishment and has a full Smite...

 

Soulburner weapons deal mortal wounds. I'm talking about weapons that deal additional mortal wounds on specific rolls. As far as I'm aware, they only occur on "to wound" rolls.

[Holier Than Thou]

I agree that it would be better for us to either be able to cast our powers more than once at +1 difficulty per cast or allow our powers to affect an additional unit/character within 3" of the targeted unit. It would make us different but not overpowered.

[Schlitzaf]

Cpt for sake of clarity, if the Pyscannon did 3 damage, post save, are you getting 3 rolls on a 4+, then getting another roll for each iteration of success ad infinitum? In that case I am firmly against it, however if its only one iteration and only one roll (or multiple rolls but damage will only ever be increased by one regardless of number of success). Then the points you gave could be the 'base' value (so 24 points on Strike Squads). 

 

Secondly for Psilencers, I'd look at Arc Rifles for comparison. Have them be -1 AP base, then against certain targets are AP -2. And I'd change the Psilencer for to 24 (18) points because what you have is something between a GravCannon and HeavyBolter. Otherwise those two weapons look fine to me. 

 

------

Also pysker heavy armies should get a second themed 'smite' esque power. Knights could get Hammerhand and Suns get Doombolt for example. They'd have FullSmite (character only), BabySmite (Regular infantry) and Army 'Smite' (themed per army, Hammerhand vs Doombolt. Then something for Eldar, I dunno). So they have 5 powers, 3-4 casts of Smite, 3-4 casts of BabySmite and 3-4 cast of Army'Smite'. So 12-14 powers each turn. 

[Corvus Fortis]

To tell the truth, I rarely feel uncomfortable with Rule of One. After the last tournament, I feel that d3 smite would be way better addition. I just had not enough power to kill certain things. I have a feeling that even in close combat we are not good enough to kill things. If we can kill things better, there will be less fire pointed at us, thus increasing our survivability.

So d3 smite and d2 psycannons are the things I'd like to see the most. 

 

Btw, who has already sent feedback to GW? I wonder how many of us there are.

[Helycon]

To tell the truth, I rarely feel uncomfortable with Rule of One. After the last tournament, I feel that d3 smite would be way better addition. I just had not enough power to kill certain things. I have a feeling that even in close combat we are not good enough to kill things. If we can kill things better, there will be less fire pointed at us, thus increasing our survivability.

So d3 smite and d2 psycannons are the things I'd like to see the most.

 

Btw, who has already sent feedback to GW? I wonder how many of us there are.

That pretty much means you need to go first. Not something that is an actual solution, more something to flip a coin at the start who wins.

[Capt. Mytre]

Cpt for sake of clarity, if the Pyscannon did 3 damage, post save, are you getting 3 rolls on a 4+, then getting another roll for each iteration of success ad infinitum? In that case I am firmly against it, however if its only one iteration and only one roll (or multiple rolls but damage will only ever be increased by one regardless of number of success). Then the points you gave could be the 'base' value (so 24 points on Strike Squads). 

 

Secondly for Psilencers, I'd look at Arc Rifles for comparison. Have them be -1 AP base, then against certain targets are AP -2. And I'd change the Psilencer for to 24 (18) points because what you have is something between a GravCannon and HeavyBolter. Otherwise those two weapons look fine to me. 

 

------

Also pysker heavy armies should get a second themed 'smite' esque power. Knights could get Hammerhand and Suns get Doombolt for example. They'd have FullSmite (character only), BabySmite (Regular infantry) and Army 'Smite' (themed per army, Hammerhand vs Doombolt. Then something for Eldar, I dunno). So they have 5 powers, 3-4 casts of Smite, 3-4 casts of BabySmite and 3-4 cast of Army'Smite'. So 12-14 powers each turn. 

 

An unsaved wound isn't damage, it's a wound that you have failed to save. If a psycannon fired 2 shots, both hit and wound, and then failed both saves, you would roll 2 dice. If you roll a 6 for one and a 2 for the other, one does 4 damage, the other 3.

 

Points value cannot be any cheaper than what I have suggested - unless gameplay suggested otherwise. The point efficiency takes into account the platform. If it were 24 points, it would be vastly better than any infantry deployable heavy weapon Space Marines get.

 

The flat AP value -1 would make them more versatile, it needs to have no AP to solidify its role. The AP value verse infantry must be -3. Point cost should be 15, unless gameplay suggested otherwise. Point efficiency wise, it doesn't matter what you think it might be like, the math shows it is nothing like a HB. A 4x Grav cannon squad is actually more efficient verse 3+ save or better models, and not that far off verse non-3+ save models, while retaining the ability to be very efficient against vehicles with 3+ saves or better.

 

Hammerhand would be a crap power to give to all units, given it's super situational and CC is hard enough to get into. Sanctuary would be a better option if you were to go that route.

 

 

To tell the truth, I rarely feel uncomfortable with Rule of One. After the last tournament, I feel that d3 smite would be way better addition. I just had not enough power to kill certain things. I have a feeling that even in close combat we are not good enough to kill things. If we can kill things better, there will be less fire pointed at us, thus increasing our survivability.

So d3 smite and d2 psycannons are the things I'd like to see the most.

 

Btw, who has already sent feedback to GW? I wonder how many of us there are.

That pretty much means you need to go first. Not something that is an actual solution, more something to flip a coin at the start who wins.

 

 

This is why GK should have some kind of survivability buff. A basic 6+ FNP army wide, that becomes a 5+ FNP verse Demons and Psychic powers.

[Corvus Fortis]

 

That pretty much means you need to go first. Not something that is an actual solution, more something to flip a coin at the start who wins.

 

 

Decisive first turn is already a problem and not only for GK. GK, probably, even better at handling initiative loss then some other armies because half of an army starts in reserves.

 

 

This is why GK should have some kind of survivability buff. A basic 6+ FNP army wide, that becomes a 5+ FNP verse Demons and Psychic powers.

 

 

I'm sure, that GW will not add any special rules. Best we can hope for is stat changes or wordings. They need to test all the armies for rule changes and GK is obviously not the one they want to put effort into.  

[Helycon]

 

 

That pretty much means you need to go first. Not something that is an actual solution, more something to flip a coin at the start who wins.

 

 

Decisive first turn is already a problem and not only for GK. GK, probably, even better at handling initiative loss then some other armies because half of an army starts in reserves.

 

 

This is why GK should have some kind of survivability buff. A basic 6+ FNP army wide, that becomes a 5+ FNP verse Demons and Psychic powers.

 

 

I'm sure, that GW will not add any special rules. Best we can hope for is stat changes or wordings. They need to test all the armies for rule changes and GK is obviously not the one they want to put effort into.  

 

Of which I am well aware. Problem is, every single turn-based game will have this issue. Grey Knights have an 'advantage' of being able to deepstrike pretty much anything they want. They things they can't due to the 50% on the board, can go in metal bawkses, shunt or gate to the enemy quickly. This requires some clever manouvering. Since GK are also pretty elite, the number of drops are lower. 

 

Just going: "We need to be able to kill more stuff, so less stuff can hurt us!" just reeks of lack of strategic insight. 

 

I'm not saying GK don't need some help, but more damage really isn't the solution, especially in D3 smites. This would simply overrule the fact there are different spells to cast and people would smite all day and ignore the rest, except for Sanctuary. It would also encourage Voldus play, since he can cast 3 powers, so the rest of your units can smite. It's just not compelling gameplay and adds to the issue of Mortal Wounds being to prevalent in the first place. I'm sure that when you actually play Daemons, you're not doing anything but smiting, since you'll be doing a ton of wounds to everything. 

 

A bit of survivability could do, but I'd rather tone down the bigger issue. People are spamming things that do mortal wounds, which is bad for an elite army such as Grey Knights, since our 1W model is worth multiple for other armies. Maybe we need to use Apothecaries to revive them and have some bonus to this as an elite army. Failing it is a BIG problem, so people chose not to do it. 

 

Some heavy weapons need a clearer definition of what they actually DO. Biggest gripe here is that just upping the damage on a Psycannon sounds silly. You're literally making it an autocannon at that point. It needs a clearer role. ALL anti-vehicle weapons that do BIG damage are either random, or melee on big things that cost lots of points. If you want something anti-vehicle, chances are, that's exactly what you're getting. 

 

Why not have a hit roll of 6 add some AP -3, since that's something sorely lacking. Not sure if it's fluffy, but it does give your incentive to point it at big targets. Giving it flat damage would invalidate pretty much every other weapon though, since it's consistent damage, so people KNOW what to expect. It's exactly why autocannons are immensely popular, and Dark Angels like their Plasma with stratagem and overcharging. Random is scary, because it can whiff badly. Still, it's where big damage SHOULD come from.