Project Durandal, a new generation of Battle Tank

[LaLongCarabine]

(Prototypes page 2)

(Reservations page 3)

 

With the advent of this new age and the ...relaxing of certain protocols some industrious Magi have taken the risk and pushed forward with the development of a new generation of Battle Tanks.

 

I've never liked the look of the russ so I've finally decided to say screw it and design my own. I will be finishing this design in CAD before sending it off to shapeways for printing in high detail, then I'm going to drop it in some silicone so I can have all I want (currently planning an oversized armored cav troop of 12 tanks)

 

I'm cribbing from some familiar conversion designs I've seen around (especially with the gubbins & greeblies) but everything is being done by visual ID without access to anything more than a Russ for a few minutes and a land raider (just took measurements for the width of the tracks)

 

Project: Durandal, a new sword for the Guard.

 

 

I may indulge in some commentary later between pictures but for now I need to get this up. and out there for your comment.

 

[Tarvek Val]

I like the idea and the design so far looks excellent! My only concern is that the lascannon/heavy bolter will have a very limited, frontal range of fire, so this glorious new behemoth of war will theoretically be especially vulnerable from the sides / rear... But I am sure that your main armament will more than make up for that, honored tech-priest.

[Ryno]

Always like seeing these sorts of projects.

And huzzah, Solidworks! Many an hour lost, and many a curse uttered, due to that beast. But I just can't drop it.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The design looks good so far. Will you give it sponson mounts, or just add Heavy weapons to the turret sides, like the modified M1 Abrams in Michael Bay's 'Transformers'?

[LaLongCarabine]

Always like seeing these sorts of projects.

 

And huzzah, Solidworks! Many an hour lost, and many a curse uttered, due to that beast. But I just can't drop it.

True, it's eaten much of my life but without it I'd be lost. Also I get it legitimately for 20 bucks a year HAH!

 

I like the idea and the design so far looks excellent! My only concern is that the lascannon/heavy bolter will have a very limited, frontal range of fire, so this glorious new behemoth of war will theoretically be especially vulnerable from the sides / rear... But I am sure that your main armament will more than make up for that, honored tech-priest.

The Lascannon/Heavy bolter is intended as a hull mounted foward firing weapon as per previous successful designs (such as the sanctified ancient Sherman). For more coverage see below.

 

The design looks good so far. Will you give it sponson mounts, or just add Heavy weapons to the turret sides, like the modified M1 Abrams in Michael Bay's 'Transformers'?

 

Sponson Weapons will be represented by a low profile CROWS mount placed over the commander's hatch, for those unfamiliar with the acronym (Commonly Remote Operated Weapons System) think of it like a smaller version of the razorback's turret. 3 systems are currently in design, a 3 barreled heavy bolter, a 4 nozzeled melta weapon, and a twin plasma weapon designed off of the plasma executioner (anyone got high res photos of those suckers, I need 1 to get the design started).

 

I feel the CROWS mount will fairly represent current weapon coverage in this edition and if they ever sink back to older styles well... let your opponent's complain.

 

In addition to this a notch on the loader's hatch will be designed to allow the attachment of a pintle mounted weapon, though I will be leaving the procurement of said weapons to individual units as field modifications, the same goes for coaxial mounts when configuring tanks to conqueror and Stygies patterns.

 

Now for progress!

 

The turret ring begins. I may shrink this down to allow for more clearance over certain hull details.

 

Finally the turret begins to take shape. I've decided to take a break from the hull to allow internal processing to work on it as is. The rear block in intended for stowage and will be accessable from the rear of the tank. Weapon mounting is next on the list.

 

Full assembly so far. I'm concerned about leaving the chamfered edge on the side of the turret but for now it remains to allow the turret to move 360 degrees without inhibition from parts of the hull.

 

Progress marches on. Hope to finish the entire assembly by the first week of march. Better to be sure than to waste resources producing substandard prototypes.

 

Current plans are for a primary battle cannon, gatting cannon, and twin las weapons. Unsure about  others, demand for other primary armaments seems low and can be relegated to later design.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I like the sloped turret armor, but I think the turret should be moved back, to avoid obstructing the driver and hull gunner's hatches.

[Ryno]

 

Always like seeing these sorts of projects.

 

And huzzah, Solidworks! Many an hour lost, and many a curse uttered, due to that beast. But I just can't drop it.

True, it's eaten much of my life but without it I'd be lost. Also I get it legitimately for 20 bucks a year HAH!

 

How did you manage that!? I'm financing it for ~$375/mo for 3 years. And then there's the $1700/year subscription fee once these 3 years are up...

[LaLongCarabine]

I like the sloped turret armor, but I think the turret should be moved back, to avoid obstructing the driver and hull gunner's hatches.

Currently I'm not planning on a full driver's hatch in the front armor, but even if I did it would be access for both driver and gunner just as the turret's loader's hatch is the only access for the turret crew. Nothing final yet but working on it.

 

 

 

Always like seeing these sorts of projects.

 

And huzzah, Solidworks! Many an hour lost, and many a curse uttered, due to that beast. But I just can't drop it.

True, it's eaten much of my life but without it I'd be lost. Also I get it legitimately for 20 bucks a year HAH!

 

How did you manage that!? I'm financing it for ~$375/mo for 3 years. And then there's the $1700/year subscription fee once these 3 years are up...

 

Military discount on the student edition. Enjoying it so much.

 

Progress report is rather grim today brethren. Upon completion of the turret base it was identified that the proportion of height between the hull and turret were grossly off. The result is a need to rebuild the design from the ground up.

 

Here is the base prototype before accessories were added on

As you can see the proportions of the turret lean much more toward the Astartes Mars Pattern Predator than proper guard tank designs.

 

The new design is the same length with a lower profile allowing for a more robust turret while keeping it's profile the same.

 

3/4 image of the new track guard

 

Above view of said track guard

 

View of the vanishing point of the tracks

 

View of the new rear track vanishing point

 

As you can see the new covers and vanishing points allow for much easier production while allowing the production to include the tracks attached to the sponson for ease of assembly (hope you enjoy that bit)

 

Hopefully the speed at which I've been able to finish the sponson will indicate how fast I can proceed and meet my former checkpoint.

 

I'm considering costs of production of these tanks and am curious as to who would be interested in procurement of these units. Let me know I am fully intending to produce at LEAST 16 (12 for my company, 3 for one of the casters, and one for the mold maker)

 

Wish me luck and Praise the Omnisiah.

[LaLongCarabine]

Now for a quick update on the redesign. progress advances forward despite delays (read: getting doubled backed at work, to hell with 15hrs of work in a 26hr period)

 

Here you can see the new proportions between the turret and hull.

 

The sponsons now sit 5mm shorter and the turret 5mm taller. Keeping the overall height of the tank at the same as a Russ while giving more room to play with for main weapons and creating a better silhouette.

 

Should be able to finish the forward weapon mount tomorrow. Still unsure about how I'm going to handle the driver's hatch. The turret can't really sit any further back on the hull but here's a thought I was working on.

 

By moving the driver's position up I can put his hatch forward of the turret and giving her space to access the tank. I'm still thinking of lowering the position and sloping the armor further to function like the abrams (driven from a leaning back position but can sit up to stick their head out the driver's hatch.)

 

Progress marches on, and hopefully in the next 2-4 days I should have passed my old point with the forward weapon mount complete and primary weapon fixed.

 

Thoughts?

[Subtle Discord]

Interesting project, nice work. As a fellow Solidworks monkey I'm always interested to see someone take on a challenging project. You've got the right idea, take your time and think it through. I want to write more, but want to process your project a bit and blather more at a later time when I can get my thoughts in a row. 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Maybe you can go with an unmanned turret, like the Russian Army's T-14 Armata? That will justify a smaller turret, which then justifies having room for driver and gunner hatches on top of the hull, instead of the front hatches/ACHILLES HEELS we see on the Leman Russ?

[LaLongCarabine]

Maybe you can go with an unmanned turret, like the Russian Army's T-14 Armata? That will justify a smaller turret, which then justifies having room for driver and gunner hatches on top of the hull, instead of the front hatches/ACHILLES HEELS we see on the Leman Russ?

Well I'm not feeling a smaller turret as I don't want to cringe even further onto Predator territory. That said instead of T-14, how about T-55!

 

 

 

The recessed hull now gives space for the hatch to open completely and the driver to enter/exit as needed. Considering making the hull weapon a driver operated/machine spirit assisted to keep the crew at 4 (unless as a command tank).

 

May considering a 2nd hatch if I decide to go with a sherman sized crew (5 man) and have the hull gun manned. If I do that I'll likely create a step down on the glacius plate instead of the cubby the driver has right now, that'll let me do a pair of hatches.

 

If we can setup an apache's main gun to track with the head/eye movements of the gunner, why would it be even a hard time to attach a tracking setup to the driver since the gun is only designed to fire in his foward arc (45 degree fire arc) why not let him have it?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The driver's position looks acceptable. Will this vehicle be 3D printed, made from plasticard and green stuff, and/or kitbashed from Rhinos and other Space Marine vehicles?

[LaLongCarabine]

The driver's position looks acceptable. Will this vehicle be 3D printed, made from plasticard and green stuff, and/or kitbashed from Rhinos and other Space Marine vehicles?

Second comment first, The plan is to 3d print this sucker (a $500 plus job but I also have a casting rig reducing unit cost to $10 or under), Once printed it goes into production to complete an enhanced tank company (12 rather than 10, either organized into smaller even platoons, 3 machines instead of 4 with 4 platoons rather than 3, or a larger command platoon with 4 machines rather than 2).

 

First comment, I've decided I don't like the hatch so I've decided to combine the T-34, Sherman, and Abrams style.

 

 

The Hatches are designed to pop up and then slide forward and down. We keep forgetting that the tech available to us isn't limited to what we can do right here right now. I'm figuring that the hatch supports are hydraulicly powered allowing the hatch to be as thick and as heavily armored and supported as the rest of the forward plate (am I the only one who always types 'foward' not "forward", think I pronounce it the same as well).

 

The way these hatches are designed now a guardsmen could actually climb in and out with the length and width and the hatch can slide foward without interference from the turret.

 

Wasn't able to make any progress on the foward gun which is being moved to the right side so now that the hatches have their periscopes I'm wondering what to put on the left side, maybe an additional armor plate, or maybe leave it blank. I don't know maybe I'll figure it out after I get the gun in place.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

How about having the driver and hull gunner's hatches swivel to the sides, like that of the M1 Abrams? (See here, here, here, and here for examples.)

[LaLongCarabine]

How about having the driver and hull gunner's hatches swivel to the sides, like that of the M1 Abrams? (See here, here, here, and here for examples.)

Primary reason is because with the raised sponsons there's no where for the hatch to rotate off to, now if I was doing a single driver's hatch and no gunner hatch then there'd be no problem, but for now I'm gonna go with the van door style because it's sci fi and interesting. Just need to decide if I'm going to do any external handles for them.

 

Now for the overdue update

 

Here we have our new battle cannon, now with a bigger bore cause we need to compensate.

 

Assembly with cannon

 

Our new forward weapon mount (kinda think it looks too plain, may have the foward supplemental armor bolted on.

 

And the whole assembly as it stands as of posting.

 

Unless further issues crop up I might work on different primary weapons, or start working on turret detail, perhaps the side steps on the left sponson.

 

Omnisiah bless me for my will is flagging.

 

 

 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Looks promising. Can you mount the Demolisher cannon and Exterminator autocannon in the same turret, or will a new design be necessary (assuming we don't mod and kitbash the gun mantlet to fit)?

[LaLongCarabine]

Looks promising. Can you mount the Demolisher cannon and Exterminator autocannon in the same turret, or will a new design be necessary (assuming we don't mod and kitbash the gun mantlet to fit)?

 

Here you can see how the gun/mantlet will fit plugged into the turret proper This will allow for one turret to mount any number of different weapons which will be mounted to their mantlets. The end product will likely have a deeper plug combined with sink points for 1/8" magnets in all 4 corners (maybe center too havn't decided). Current queue is battle cannon, gatling, twin laser, and plasma. Other variants will be done later upon significant demand being met (number of requests or being commissioned to produce the piece specifically). Autocannon might be significantly easier but there isn't a real clamor for a 4 shot 2 damage weapon when the standard cannon is d6 shots d3 damage each at higher strength and better AP.

 

 

Here we can see a new commander's sight, nice and simple.

 

And here we finally have hatches. I'm considering going deeper with the internals so builders will have an easier time fitting in their preferred tank commanders in the cupolas.

 

Ammo storage

 

Single shot missile

Alternate mounting position for those who just love the javelin or dragon

 

Doghouse

 

First try at smoke launchers (we'll come back to these later)

 

All together so far

 

Durandal has not died, it moves on despite my lack of inspiration and feedback. I've retained a manufactorum (printer) and have set aside resources (funds) to produce the initial prototype upon design finalization. Completion nears my compatriots, soon our armies shall be newly armed and armored in service to the Omnisiah!

 

edit: didn't actually answer the question at the top.

[Naryn]

I love it! Especially the javelin-style launcher. You’ve mentioned sponsons before, i’d love to know more about the plan for those.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I think the missile launcher should be taller so it can elevate to a higher angle, e.g., shoot a sniper who's firing down from a hive's upper floor.

 

The turret and its accessories are otherwise well thought out. Well done.

[LaLongCarabine]

I love it! Especially the javelin-style launcher. You’ve mentioned sponsons before, i’d love to know more about the plan for those.

Well today you'll get to find out. (I'm guessing you mean sponson mounted weapons, as sponsons are the sides of the tank that contain the treads)

 

I think the missile launcher should be taller so it can elevate to a higher angle, e.g., shoot a sniper who's firing down from a hive's upper floor.

 

The turret and its accessories are otherwise well thought out. Well done.

Remember Javelins aren't direct fire, they fire forward at an angle then take on a more vertical trajectory before arcing down to strike the top armor of their target.

Okay so today we have two bits, one petty ante and one interesting.

 

First new smoke launchers.

 

Went for a less missile launcher look.

 

Next we have the CROWS turret which will stand in for sponson mounted weapons.

 

 

There's another design in the works which has the gun situated between two smaller sensor setups but for now I'm liking the offset design. Future progress will include an ammo feed into the baseplate. The design currently will consist of 4 pieces (baseplace, gun/sensor, and 2 sides).

 

Had some pushback on the armored skirts, considering removing them and going with roadwheels, not sure yet. Its the age old bit where if you have to keep explaining things to people then you're not being obvious enough with how you're showing it. But I think in this case when we're indulging in scifi its okay to expect to have to explain some design elements to viewers.

[Combat_Vet]

I love the look of your tank and I envy your ability to create the design themselves. 

 

The Russ is modelled off the old WWI British tanks so has a primitive blocky look. Yours has the sleek silhouette of the BFV (Bradley) or modern fighting vehicle. 

 

As much as I love those "aluminum coffins", do you worry that your design will too closely resemble a 48 scale BFV once its on the table?

 

The rather large muzzle will set it apart from a standard model, as it looks like it fires milk jugs instead of soda cans. I am just curious as to any plans to "science-fictiony" up the finished model.

 

Amazing work thus far, so please do not think I am against the concept or the work. Simply asking a question that came to mind.

 

PS - The CROWS is a nice touch. Hopefully they don't roll ones like we always did. :)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The CROWS is a good idea with an excellent design. I think the hunter-killer missile launcher should be mounted on its side (search for images of the Samson RWS with its optional missile launcher), so it can elevate enough to engage targets firing from "higher ground"- ideally, shoot at flyers to deter air attacks.

[LaLongCarabine]

I love the look of your tank and I envy your ability to create the design themselves. 

 

The Russ is modelled off the old WWI British tanks so has a primitive blocky look. Yours has the sleek silhouette of the BFV (Bradley) or modern fighting vehicle. 

 

As much as I love those "aluminum coffins", do you worry that your design will too closely resemble a 48 scale BFV once its on the table?

 

The rather large muzzle will set it apart from a standard model, as it looks like it fires milk jugs instead of soda cans. I am just curious as to any plans to "science-fictiony" up the finished model.

 

Amazing work thus far, so please do not think I am against the concept or the work. Simply asking a question that came to mind.

 

PS - The CROWS is a nice touch. Hopefully they don't roll ones like we always did.

Yeah bradley/abrams aesthetic is what I was going for. I think the design is clearly different enough to avoid confusion when the model is set down on the table. Also the IFV replacement for the chimera is in the drafting stages as well so keep your eye out for that.

 

The cannon's diameter is a conceit to 40k's ridiculous concept of muzzle sizes and is actually small when compared to a battle cannon.

 

Feel free to ask more questions, I don't take offense to much.

 

The CROWS is a good idea with an excellent design. I think the hunter-killer missile launcher should be mounted on its side (search for images of the Samson RWS with its optional missile launcher), so it can elevate enough to engage targets firing from "higher ground"- ideally, shoot at flyers to deter air attacks.

 

Again remember a javelin is not a direct fire weapon, it's a mini cruise missile, it fires out then changes trajectory. It's not meant to be used as a sniper-be-gone like a bazooka was.

 

[Maarten]

What an adorable little tank you've created there mate. I'm a bit late to the party so this comment is just gonna skim over.... well everything.

The change to the lower tracks was a massive upgrade so good job on that. Takes some nerve to change a design when you're already that far into it.
The exaggerated abrahams style turret works remarkably well, the front of the hull however feels like it is missing something to me shape wise. Maybe throwing in some sort of shape next to the heavy bolter will tie it in more with the established 40k style.(like the chimera front for example.)

Other than that I think you're well on your way to getting something that will pass as GW to a casual onlooker. What really helped me when making the Sagittarius land raider tracks look original was copying small design clues that GW sprinkles over their designs like Halloween candy. If you're interested I can grab some screenshots with dimensions from Solidworks. Of course these are marine design cues and they might not work with the guard aesthetic.

Now that I mention the guard aesthetic I think all guard tanks have some sort of raised angular platform that their turret sits on, adding that might have a huge impact on the design.(or make it look silly, who knows.)